Warforged THF Cleric viable option?

[Vilgeforts]

Hello,
I will heroic reincarnate soon and for my next life i plan to have a THF cleric build, as I need cleric for completionist. I am thinking about warforged class for great immunities and greatsword deity. I figured out i need 14 cleric for Holy Sword from war domain, 10% sacred health is nice as well. 4 Paladin would grant me +6str, +20% health and charge attack from knight of chalice. 2 fighters for feats only. I attach output from builder for better clarity.

Classes: 14 Cleric, 10 Epic, 4 Paladin, 2 Fighter
Race: Warforged · · · · · ·Alignment: Lawful Good

· · ·Start Tome Final
Str:· · 16· · 2 · ·39 · · ·HP:· · · · 677 · · ·AC:· · 48
Dex:· · ·8· · 2 · ·12 · · ·PRR: · · · ·77
Con:· · 16· · 2 · ·20 · · ·MRR: · · · ·38 · · ·+Healing Amp:· · 50
Int:· · ·8· · 2 · ·12 · · ·Dodge: · ·0/27 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · ·0
Wis:· · 14· · 3 · ·19 · · ·Fort:· · · 69% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · ·0
Cha:· · 14· · 2 · ·18 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 16
DR: 5\- · 2\Adamantine
Immunities: Sleep, Energy Drain, Nausea, Sickness, Exhaustion, Paralysis, Natural Disease, Magical Disease, Super-Natural Disease, Fear


Saves:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fortitude:· · · · ·40
· vs Poison:· · · ·51*
· vs Disease: · · ·41
Will: · · · · · · ·32
· vs Enchantment: ·37
· vs Illusion:· · ·34
· vs Fear:· · · · ·34
· vs Curse: · · · ·32
Reflex: · · · · · ·25
· vs Traps: · · · ·25
· vs Spell: · · · ·25
· vs Magic: · · · ·25

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Cleric(1) · · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Follower of the Lord of Blades
2 · · Paladin(1)· · · ·
3 · · Cleric(2) · · · ·Standard: Power Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Domain: War Domain Tier I
4 · · Paladin(2)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
5 · · Fighter(1)· · · ·Fighter Bonus: Cleave
6 · · Fighter(2)· · · ·Standard: Adamantine Body
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Fighter Bonus: Great Cleave
7 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·
8 · · Paladin(4)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
9 · · Cleric(3) · · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
10· · Cleric(4) · · · ·
11· · Cleric(5) · · · ·Domain Feat: War Domain Tier II
12· · Cleric(6) · · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Search the Soul
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
13· · Cleric(7) · · · ·
14· · Cleric(8) · · · ·
15· · Cleric(9) · · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Domain Feat: War Domain Tier III
16· · Cleric(10)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
17· · Cleric(11)· · · ·
18· · Cleric(12)· · · ·Standard: Empower Healing Spell
19· · Cleric(13)· · · ·
20· · Cleric(14)· · · ·Domain Feat: War Domain Tier IV
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Empty Feat Slot
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Empty Feat Slot
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Empty Feat Slot
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Empty Feat Slot



Enhancements: 80 APs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warforged - Points spent: 4
1 Core ·(1) Improved Fortification I
2 Tier1 (1) Repair Systems: Healer's Friend
3 Tier1 (1) Repair Systems: Healer's Friend
4 Tier1 (1) Repair Systems: Healer's Friend
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warpriest - Points spent: 40
1 Core ·(1) Smite Foe: Smite Foe (Melee)
2 Tier1 (2) Righteous Weapons I
3 Tier1 (1) Toughness
4 Tier1 (1) Toughness
5 Tier1 (1) Toughness
6 Core ·(1) Resilience of Battle
7 Tier2 (2) Righteous Weapons II
8 Tier2 (1) Wall of Steel
9 Tier2 (1) Wall of Steel
10 Tier2 (1) Wall of Steel
11 Core ·(1) Sanctuary
12 Tier1 (1) Divine Might
13 Tier1 (1) Divine Might
14 Tier1 (1) Divine Might
15 Tier3 (2) Righteous Weapons III
16 Tier3 (1) Radiant Flourish: Radiant Flourish (Melee)
17 Tier3 (1) Radiant Flourish: Radiant Flourish (Melee)
18 Tier3 (1) Radiant Flourish: Radiant Flourish (Melee)
19 Tier4 (2) Righteous Weapons IV
20 Core ·(1) Blur
21 Tier4 (1) Silence the Wicked: Silence the Wicked (Melee)
22 Tier4 (1) Silence the Wicked: Silence the Wicked (Melee)
23 Tier4 (1) Silence the Wicked: Silence the Wicked (Melee)
24 Tier4 (2) Ameliorating Strike
25 Tier4 (1) Holy Striker: Holy Striker
26 Tier4 (1) Holy Striker: Holy Striker
27 Tier4 (1) Holy Striker: Holy Striker
28 Tier5 (2) Divine Bastion
29 Tier5 (2) Wrathful Weapons
30 Tier5 (1) Divine Vessel
31 Tier5 (1) Divine Power
32 Tier5 (2) Divine Intervention
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacred Defender - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(1) Holy Bastion
2 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
3 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
4 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
5 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
6 Core ·(1) Sacred Defence
7 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
8 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
9 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
10 Tier2 (1) Bulwark Aura
11 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Strong Defense
12 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Strong Defense
13 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Strong Defense
14 Tier3 (1) Resistance Aura
15 Tier2 (1) Bulwark Aura
16 Tier3 (1) Resistance Aura
17 Tier2 (1) Bulwark Aura
18 Tier3 (1) Resistance Aura
19 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
20 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
21 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Tenacious Defense
22 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Tenacious Defense
23 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Tenacious Defense
24 Tier4 (1) Swift Defense
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 12
1 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil I
2 Tier1 (2) Holy Combatant I
3 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
4 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
6 Core ·(1) Courage of Heaven
7 Tier2 (2) Adept Combatant
8 Tier1 (1) Extra Smite
9 Tier3 (1) Lead the Charge
10 Tier3 (1) Lead the Charge


I wish to stay for some time on epics with this build, propably hit 30. I am thinking about dropping WIS to 12 and take 12 INT for intimiate and heal. I wonder how much will I be punished for taking warforged when it comes to healing. I thnik dps and survi will be decent at least. I would highly appreciate critique to this build, will it be viable for playing on heroic and epic levels. Thanks in advance

[Enoach]

Just a note, I used the Heal Domain to help offset the healing penalty of WF during one of my WF lives as a Cleric. Just a suggestion.

[Vilgeforts]

Just a note, I used the Heal Domain to help offset the healing penalty of WF during one of my WF lives as a Cleric. Just a suggestion.

Did you have similar build? If so, could you tell how did it work?

[Enoach]

Did you have similar build? If so, could you tell how did it work?

I went with a pure cleric, using LoB deity So no not similar, but the concept of THF using a WF is the similarity.

You noted you were concerned with the healing, I wanted to point out that the Healing domain does make a big difference in that area.

As far as how it worked, it worked quite well, I did use the Level 6 deity ability sparingly but even at times it made a big difference in short term fights.

[Vilgeforts]

I went with a pure cleric, using LoB deity So no not similar, but the concept of THF using a WF is the similarity.

You noted you were concerned with the healing, I wanted to point out that the Healing domain does make a big difference in that area.

As far as how it worked, it worked quite well, I did use the Level 6 deity ability sparingly but even at times it made a big difference in short term fights.

Did you play on Epic difficulty? I nedd some advice on how to make it useful at epics because my experience with that is insufficient.

[unbongwah]

If this is a heroic-only build, I would stick with pure cleric until you have Holy Sword. What's the point of waiting until level 20 for your most important DPS bonus if you're just going to TR right away?

[count_spicoli]

Thebproblem here is you wont have access to adequate tier 5 dps tree. Cleric inherently is limited on dps options. 6 barbarian is trong option for the tier 5 ravaver which give +2 crit range and blood tribute which heals you every time you kill something and bypasses reaper penalty. With destruction domain you can still cast cleric spells for heals in a pinch and for others.

Why you locked on wareforge? If you getting cleric past life every race open. Would think aasmir or half orc or even human would be better option. Prob half orc best for more strikethru

[Vilgeforts]

If this is a heroic-only build, I would stick with pure cleric until you have Holy Sword. What's the point of waiting until level 20 for your most important DPS bonus if you're just going to TR right away?

I was planning to make 30 with this build so i would benefit from Holy Sword, however i need some advice on how to make viable epic build and if its even possible with what i presented.

[Vilgeforts]

Thebproblem here is you wont have access to adequate tier 5 dps tree. Cleric inherently is limited on dps options. 6 barbarian is trong option for the tier 5 ravaver which give +2 crit range and blood tribute which heals you every time you kill something and bypasses reaper penalty. With destruction domain you can still cast cleric spells for heals in a pinch and for others.

Why you locked on wareforge? If you getting cleric past life every race open. Would think aasmir or half orc or even human would be better option. Prob half orc best for more strikethru

I see your point, thank you for critique. I find warforged a solid option because of LoB deity and very strong immunities(energy drain for instance). If I have paladin lvls with additional saves i think i could potentially switch race but without that my game would propably look like hold person festival. However with warforged i don t need such high saves and considering your advice i might switch to 14clr/6ftr with kensei's 5th tier. I am losing sweet pally save bonuses and +6str from cleric as well as BAB equall to fighter's but i am getting +1 threat and +1 multiplier on crits as well as 20 melee power. Other option with 6ftr would be to just grabb +1 crit multiplier and take 5th warpriest tier with +15 melee power and 20% strikethrough from warforged. I also dont really need to make reapers now with all quests free. I can also keep holy sword. Please tell me how do you find this options in comaprison to barbarian cleric.

[palladin9479]

I see your point, thank you for critique. I find warforged a solid option because of LoB deity and very strong immunities(energy drain for instance). If I have paladin lvls with additional saves i think i could potentially switch race but without that my game would propably look like hold person festival. However with warforged i don t need such high saves and considering your advice i might switch to 14clr/6ftr with kensei's 5th tier. I am losing sweet pally save bonuses and +6str from cleric as well as BAB equall to fighter's but i am getting +1 threat and +1 multiplier on crits as well as 20 melee power. Other option with 6ftr would be to just grabb +1 crit multiplier and take 5th warpriest tier with +15 melee power and 20% strikethrough from warforged. I also dont really need to make reapers now with all quests free. I can also keep holy sword. Please tell me how do you find this options in comaprison to barbarian cleric.

Favored Weapon means nothing to a Cleric, it's Paladins that need to look after that. War Priest is really bad as a DPS tree but useful as a secondary utility tree, this is why Cleric is typically married with a class that has access to a high DPS tree. The two really strong splits I know of are 14 Cleric / 5 Barb / 1 Fighter (Rage is **** at lower barb levels, Haste Boost is better) and 14 Cleric / 6 Paladin. Both cases you want 14 Cleric with the War Domain if your going past 20, otherwise it's not much important because it's the level 14 abilities that tend to define domains. Buddy of mine just tried the 14/6 Cleric/Paladin split and it was extremely easy for him, you start with 6 Paladin levels and do them like any normal KoTC paladin would, then at 7 you take Cleric and go from there. What ends up happening is you get a KoTC paladin like DPS that can also cast Heal on itself and Ameliorating Strike things to heal everyone else. Also if your going with Paladin split then always 6 levels not 4. You want the T5 access and level 6 core gives you permanent ghost touch (extremely handy for leveling).

[Vilgeforts]

Thanks for your response.

Favored Weapon means nothing to a Cleric, it's Paladins that need to look after that. .

Could you elaborate some on that?

War Priest is really bad as a DPS tree but useful as a secondary utility tree, this is why Cleric is typically married with a class that has access to a high DPS tree. The two really strong splits I know of are 14 Cleric / 5 Barb / 1 Fighter (Rage is **** at lower barb levels, Haste Boost is better) and 14 Cleric / 6 Paladin. Both cases you want 14 Cleric with the War Domain if your going past 20, otherwise it's not much important because it's the level 14 abilities that tend to define domains. Buddy of mine just tried the 14/6 Cleric/Paladin split and it was extremely easy for him, you start with 6 Paladin levels and do them like any normal KoTC paladin would, then at 7 you take Cleric and go from there. What ends up happening is you get a KoTC paladin like DPS that can also cast Heal on itself and Ameliorating Strike things to heal everyone else. Also if your going with Paladin split then always 6 levels not 4. You want the T5 access and level 6 core gives you permanent ghost touch (extremely handy for leveling).

Okay I get it, with KoTC i dont need fighter because i dont need cleaves. On the other hand why do you think KoTC has better dps than Kensei, especially considering KoTC has no crit upgrades while Ken gets +1 range and multi. I would also appreciate if you could tell why you think War Priest is bad dps tree.

If I take 6pally and KoTC i think i no longer need warforged as great sword will become my favored weapon anyways. Should I switch to H-orc then?

[unbongwah]

Paladins recently got the Combatant enhancements in KotC tree, which adds static bonuses to favored weapons. They also can expand their set of favored weapons to include Longswords, Battle Axes, Heavy Maces, Morningstars, War Hammers, and Greatswords regardless of deity. Finally they get Ascendency: "Whenever you attack an undead or evil outsider with a Favored Weapon, you gain a stack of Blessed Purpose: +3 Sacred Bonus to Melee and Ranged Power that lasts for 6 seconds. You can acquire up to 15 stacks by continuing to attack Undead or Evil Outsiders."

Warpriest OTOH has pretty weak bonuses to favored weapons. It can't expand its set of favored weapons like KotC. And it doesn't get any crit bonuses like Warsoul does.

On the other hand why do you think KoTC has better dps than Kensei, especially considering KoTC has no crit upgrades while Ken gets +1 range and multi.

Kensei bonuses to crit range don't stack with Holy Sword. So something like cleric 14 / fighter 6 is better with a non-War domain, such as Animal or Strength.

I would also appreciate if you could tell why you think War Priest is bad dps tree.

Like I said, it doesn't get any crit bonuses (wiki page is incorrect), which basically forces you to either take War domain or multiclass or use Vistani / Inquisitive tree. It doesn't boost Melee Power at all. Its special attacks are only so-so compared to KotC IMO. Its best(?) bonus is Wrathful Weapons: "When you score a Vorpal Hit with your religion's favored weapon, your attacks gain 10d6 Light Damage on hit for the next 12 seconds." But hardly anyone takes tier-5 Warpriest instead of e.g. Radiant Servant for heal aura or (if multiclassing) a more powerful melee tree like Kensei.

It's not that you can't make a pure Warpriest if you want, but it's going to be a noticeably weaker melee DPS build than pure paladin or some of the MCed cleric options.

If I take 6pally and KoTC i think i no longer need warforged as great sword will become my favored weapon anyways. Should I switch to H-orc then?

Paladin 6 / cleric 14 (War domain) is certainly one option for a battlecleric these days: tier-5 KotC for DPS, some Sacred Defender for survivability boosts and +6 STR. Half-orc boosts DPS further and would let you add Brutality.

So it depends on what you want to achieve. If you're thinking "mostly a party healer but with some melee DPS" then you're talking pure cleric like Axel's build or my F2P battlepriest. Whereas if you're thinking "solo melee DPS with Heal spell for a cleric past life," then one of the multiclassed options will be stronger.

[Vilgeforts]

Paladins recently got the Combatant enhancements in KotC tree, which adds static bonuses to favored weapons. They also can expand their set of favored weapons to include Longswords, Battle Axes, Heavy Maces, Morningstars, War Hammers, and Greatswords regardless of deity. Finally they get Ascendency: "Whenever you attack an undead or evil outsider with a Favored Weapon, you gain a stack of Blessed Purpose: +3 Sacred Bonus to Melee and Ranged Power that lasts for 6 seconds. You can acquire up to 15 stacks by continuing to attack Undead or Evil Outsiders."

Warpriest OTOH has pretty weak bonuses to favored weapons. It can't expand its set of favored weapons like KotC. And it doesn't get any crit bonuses like Warsoul does.

Kensei bonuses to crit range don't stack with Holy Sword. So something like cleric 14 / fighter 6 is better with a non-War domain, such as Animal or Strength.

Like I said, it doesn't get any crit bonuses (wiki page is incorrect), which basically forces you to either take War domain or multiclass or use Vistani / Inquisitive tree. It doesn't boost Melee Power at all. Its special attacks are only so-so compared to KotC IMO. Its best(?) bonus is Wrathful Weapons: "When you score a Vorpal Hit with your religion's favored weapon, your attacks gain 10d6 Light Damage on hit for the next 12 seconds." But hardly anyone takes tier-5 Warpriest instead of e.g. Radiant Servant for heal aura or (if multiclassing) a more powerful melee tree like Kensei.

It's not that you can't make a pure Warpriest if you want, but it's going to be a noticeably weaker melee DPS build than pure paladin or some of the MCed cleric options.

Paladin 6 / cleric 14 (War domain) is certainly one option for a battlecleric these days: tier-5 KotC for DPS, some Sacred Defender for survivability boosts and +6 STR. Half-orc boosts DPS further and would let you add Brutality.

So it depends on what you want to achieve. If you're thinking "mostly a party healer but with some melee DPS" then you're talking pure cleric like Axel's build or my F2P battlepriest. Whereas if you're thinking "solo melee DPS with Heal spell for a cleric past life," then one of the multiclassed options will be stronger.

Thanks, now I see what you guys mean. I am hesitating between warforged 6fighter/14cleric str domain and h-orc 6pally/14cleric war domain. I definitely prefer "solo melee DPS with Heal spell for a cleric past life" option. I guess fighter option would be better for heroics because of faster access to crit multiplier, however pally gets much more survi and better self heal. How does it look like in epics? Which feats and epic destinies take to make it viable end game build?