Some quest xp updates I'd like to see...

[FranOhmsford]

EDITED to add more suggestions....

Redfang the Unruled

- Add doable Onslaught and Conquest Bonuses
- Add a couple hundred xp to the Base XP for this quest
- Add a Res Shrine at the end of the quest as Raise Dead isn't available at this level!

Freshen the Air

- Has ridiculously low base XP - Should give a similar amount to Irestone Inlet which has base xp on Elite a full 600 higher!

Irestone Inlet

- Reduce the Kills requirement for Aggression to 75, Reduce the Kills requirement for Onslaught to 90 and Add a Conquest requirement at 115!

Depths of Despair

There's a reason hardly anyone bothers to run most of this quest and instead just goes straight to the boss - The XP is a Joke and Conquest doesn't even seem to be possible!

- Reduce the Conquest requirement to 36 kills!
- Up the base xp to the same as Depths of Darkness
- Make killing the Minotaur behind the gate a requirement to complete the quest! {P.S. The Lever was unusable when I ran this quest tonight so getting to the minotaur was impossible - This would have to be fixed}.

Depths of Darkness

- Again Conquest doesn't seem to be possible unless you can get through the locked gate - The Conquest requirement needs reducing so groups without a trapper can get that bonus.
- Add a second shrine within reach of the final room - I've lost count of the number of times I've died in that room and having to either release or use a cake is extremely annoying!

The Stormreaver Fresco

- The Crystals count as Kills - WHY? They should count as Breakables and add to the Ransack Counter rather than the Kill Count.
- Add a Devious Bonus for 2 kills or less. {the first two dogs}.

Mystery of Delera's Tomb

- Quest is currently Lvl 5 - It should be Lvl 6!
- DOUBLE the xp for the Ghostly Skeleton Opt! {Seriously...Does anyone bother running back through the quest to kill them all?}.

Archer Point

- Ransack is virtually impossible to get because the Hobgoblin Chief comes running before you're anywhere near the boxes! Scatter the boxes around the quest.


BUT I'd also like to see the Conquest and Ransack bonuses changed in all quests to reflect better the amount of extra work needed to get these bonuses.
In quests where these bonuses are easy to get the current 10/15/25% and 5/10/15% are fine but in quests such as Depths of Despair for example where players can't be bothered to even attempt to get these bonuses they need making significantly more worthwhile.
Maybe you could even add a 100% xp bonus for getting Ransack AND Conquest in Depths of Despair and I'm still not sure ALL players would bother getting them

Chains of Flame - You'd think well the breakables are all on the way and it's actually a linear quest BUT smashing all those breakables adds a considerable amount of time to the quest! +15% isn't enough of a bonus to make up for this added TIME for many players! {I like CoF enough that I don't mind taking extra time in there but I know I'm in a small minority in this view of said quest }.
It would also be nice if Conquest was doable on difficulties below Epic Elite!

VoN 3 - Getting Ransack Bonus is ridiculously easy in VoN 3 - It basically means smashing everything in one small room!
15% is fine here BUT maybe up the Ransack requirement to make getting the two barrels at the final shrine part of it as well as the three in the first troll room.

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

They are all reasonable suggestions.

[mikarddo]

The suggestions sound reasonable but also like peanuts.

Some quests need much more xp to be run. Chains of Flame could be twice the xp without breaking any barries.

Many optionals need to give very significantly more xp. If you are running quests at a moderate 3k xp/min (mid/late heroics) an optional that gives 700 xp for 2 min extra time is far from worthwhile. A problem with optionals and xp though is that they do not scale with first time bonusses.

Fixing a few trees is not a bad idea but fixing the actual forest might be better

[FranOhmsford]

The suggestions sound reasonable but also like peanuts.

I'm trying to be less hyperbolic and more realistic with these suggestions than usual

Some quests need much more xp to be run. Chains of Flame could be twice the xp without breaking any barries.

Actually on Heroic Chains the XP is perfectly fine - Just reduce the conquest requirement so it's actually possible to get because currently it isn't!

On Epic Chains has already had a couple of upgrades BUT there's still the issue of the time it takes to run it.

There's no shortcuts in Chains - It's a Linear quest.

I personally try to grab the optional every time because it adds 8-10k to the xp of the quest but I understand why some players who do know how to get it don't bother - It adds a significant amount of time to the run to have to jump down and run back 2-3 times!

Maybe add a Ladder back up to the ledge at the final jump down spot? - How do the Gnolls get to and from that spot anyway?

Smashing barrels and crates on the way is literally a second job - For 15% - This is nowhere near enough to make it worthwhile to many players who just want to get this quest done as fast as possible!

You could reduce the number of barrels needed to smash but you already don't need to get all of them - I'd suggest not hiding so many of them though - Move them out into the open and closer to each other where players can get at them quicker and smash them in groups rather than one at a time.

Many optionals need to give very significantly more xp. If you are running quests at a moderate 3k xp/min (mid/late heroics) an optional that gives 700 xp for 2 min extra time is far from worthwhile. A problem with optionals and xp though is that they do not scale with first time bonusses.

Did you read the part of my post in green?

Scaling with first time bnouses for opt xp would be a nice addition to the game too I agree

Fixing a few trees is not a bad idea but fixing the actual forest might be better

Let's not ignore the trees though.

Fixing the whole forest would be nice but if we can get a few trees fixed that's at least something

[ValariusK]

A long while back, I used to play Dark Age of Camelot. DAoC had a mechanic called 'camp bonus' which automatically made things that weren't run a lot worth more xp relative to things that were 'camped' constantly.

I suggest that SSG take a similar mechanic. It is way easier in terms of dev time than reassessing every quest by hand.
What do you do? (note that all the particular numbers I'm picking here are totally negotiable, just a starting point for discussion).

On every server, run a weekly report for that server. For each level range, rank the frequency with which quests are ran.
For quests in the bottom 10% of run rate, apply a 10% bonus to xp given for the week to follow.
For quests in the bottom 5%, apply a 25% bonus.

If a quest is in the bottom 5% for two weeks in a row, increase that bonus to 50%
If a quest is in the bottom 5% for 1 month, increase that bonus to 100%, also have the in game mail system mail people in the level range for it (e.g. Noble hero, we desperately need help and nobody will help us)

If it stays consistently in that place, developers should look and see just what's the deal with that quest.

What's in it for the developers?
See more of your content actually run. A lot of stuff has nothing particularly wrong with it except its low xp relative to the time and fiddliness of the quest. You worked hard on that quest right?
Big bonuses offered will promote sales of the packs they're in.
Players will enjoy running a more diverse set of quests. That promotes retention and reduces burnout.

[Gniewomir]

The thing i would like to see is bumping xp in several quests instead of nerfing difficulty. Right now 99% of quests can be failed only when mobs do too much dmg comparing to party members survivability and they simply kill you. The remaining 1% are rare quests like reavers fate, where party can fail cause of not being able to do the puzzle, but there's so few such quests... Ofc there're npcs like heyton, arlos or the 12 mage in ritual sacrifice, but usually it's no challange at all to protect them. Coyle was a challange, now it's a quest where most of ppl go afk for 15 min (at least those who bother running threnal), then use res shrine. Cursed crypt might be challange, but i heard few months ago they were planning to make not killing npcs opt. So instead of going "0 brain usage, just kill everything" direction while designing a content i would prefer to see massive xp bump to those challanging cause of used mechanics. Or at least making those objectives optional only on lower difficulties. Example: if someone needs cursed crypt for altar, make silver flame on norm/hard optional. On elite/reaper keep it as failure objective, with massive xp boost, maybe +50%-100% of xp, so running it might be more risky than other quests without failure objectives, but also better paid than quests without additional failure mechanics. I know most of players would prefer to get rid of all quests with failure objectives, but i think there's enough quests in game to avoid those some people do not like and it would be nice to have various content, even when it means not being 100% sure that every quest will be completed.

But if we speak about quests with poor xp, first thing i think is: sorrowdusk.

[Xgya]

Redfang the Unruled

- Add doable Onslaught and Conquest Bonuses
- Add a couple hundred xp to the Base XP for this quest
- Add a Res Shrine at the end of the quest as Raise Dead isn't available at this level!

Freshen the Air

- Has ridiculously low base XP - Should give a similar amount to Irestone Inlet which has base xp on Elite a full 600 higher!

Irestone Inlet

- Reduce the Kills requirement for Aggression to 75, Reduce the Kills requirement for Onslaught to 90 and Add a Conquest requirement at 115!

Depths of Despair

There's a reason hardly anyone bothers to run most of this quest and instead just goes straight to the boss - The XP is a Joke and Conquest doesn't even seem to be possible!

- Reduce the Conquest requirement to 36 kills!
- Up the base xp to the same as Depths of Darkness
- Make killing the Minotaur behind the gate a requirement to complete the quest! {P.S. The Lever was unusable when I ran this quest tonight so getting to the minotaur was impossible - This would have to be fixed}.

Depths of Darkness

- Again Conquest doesn't seem to be possible unless you can get through the locked gate - The Conquest requirement needs reducing so groups without a trapper can get that bonus.
- Add a second shrine within reach of the final room - I've lost count of the number of times I've died in that room and having to either release or use a cake is extremely annoying!

The Stormreaver Fresco

- The Crystals count as Kills - WHY? They should count as Breakables and add to the Ransack Counter rather than the Kill Count.
- Add a Devious Bonus for 2 kills or less. {the first two dogs}.


BUT I'd also like to see the Conquest and Ransack bonuses changed in all quests to reflect better the amount of extra work needed to get these bonuses.
In quests where these bonuses are easy to get the current 10/15/25% and 5/10/15% are fine but in quests such as Depths of Despair for example where players can't be bothered to even attempt to get these bonuses they need making significantly more worthwhile.
Maybe you could even add a 100% xp bonus for getting Ransack AND Conquest in Depths of Despair and I'm still not sure ALL players would bother getting them

Chains of Flame - You'd think well the breakables are all on the way and it's actually a linear quest BUT smashing all those breakables adds a considerable amount of time to the quest! +15% isn't enough of a bonus to make up for this added TIME for many players! {I like CoF enough that I don't mind taking extra time in there but I know I'm in a small minority in this view of said quest }.
It would also be nice if Conquest was doable on difficulties below Epic Elite!

VoN 3 - Getting Ransack Bonus is ridiculously easy in VoN 3 - It basically means smashing everything in one small room!
15% is fine here BUT maybe up the Ransack requirement to make getting the two barrels at the final shrine part of it as well as the three in the first troll room.

You're being awfully reasonable this time around.
Very welcome change.

I totally agree about Redfang, Irestone, Freshen.

Disagree about the Depths changes, mostly because of just how short those are, but they're pretty mild and I wouldn't directly go up to the barricades if they got implemented.

Fresco, making the Crystals breakables instead of foes should make a devious bonus possible too, which sounds pretty cool in theory. I might make the bonus only possible at 0 or 1 kills, meaning you'd have to actively avoid killing the dogs, as an incentive.

If there weren't quests with so many respawns, I'd love for the Conquest bonuses to be entirely removed, replaced with something similar to Slayer bonuses (think Temple of Elemental Evil, but that would apply to all the quests in a chain). Make the kills you did in one quest that had few of them still count for the bonus in the next one.
In theory, monster manuals do that, but, let's face it, nobody goes around and hunts for specific monster manual XP because while they're a nice bonus when you get them, they're not worth putting any extra effort to get than you normally would doing quests.

I disagree about giving different bonuses for different quests' Conquest/Ransack bonuses - making them linear means quests that take longer generally give more XP for doing them, while short quests give less.
I do agree some quests make getting that bonus way too easy, while others make it much harder, but I also think it balances out in the end. Asking for separate quests to give separate amounts of experience for those objectives sounds like something entirely unnecessary.

[FranOhmsford]

Disagree about the Depths changes, mostly because of just how short those are, but they're pretty mild and I wouldn't directly go up to the barricades if they got implemented.

Most Depths groups are straight up zerg fests - If a player dies in Darkness and no-one can be bothered to take them back to the shrine they're likely not getting into Discord before the rest of the party is in Doom!

And if someone IS willing to run them back to the shrine they may STILL NOT get into Discord before the guy at the front is in Doom!

It's quite a run back to that shrine - I used Jibbers yesterday {I was soloing R1 before you start calling me a N00b!} and still only made it back to the door with no way to open it {that door closes as well so opening it beforehand isn't an option}.

Fresco, making the Crystals breakables instead of foes should make a devious bonus possible too, which sounds pretty cool in theory. I might make the bonus only possible at 0 or 1 kills, meaning you'd have to actively avoid killing the dogs, as an incentive.

If the Dogs took maybe 10 seconds longer to spawn I'd agree but if you're solo you pretty much have to kill at least the first two dogs making that bonus impossible to get with your requirement - I don't like that idea.

Getting groups for the quests you want to run isn't always possible and I don't like the idea of punising players forced to solo if they want to actually get anything done.

If there weren't quests with so many respawns, I'd love for the Conquest bonuses to be entirely removed, replaced with something similar to Slayer bonuses (think Temple of Elemental Evil, but that would apply to all the quests in a chain). Make the kills you did in one quest that had few of them still count for the bonus in the next one.

Oh dear God no!

That ToEE mechanic is AWFUL!

I'd prefer the Devs got rid of that mechanic entirely and reduced the number of mobs in ToEE to more reasonable levels!

In theory, monster manuals do that, but, let's face it, nobody goes around and hunts for specific monster manual XP because while they're a nice bonus when you get them, they're not worth putting any extra effort to get than you normally would doing quests.

MM XP would have to be insanely high to make it worth farming literally thousands of kills!

I disagree about giving different bonuses for different quests' Conquest/Ransack bonuses - making them linear means quests that take longer generally give more XP for doing them, while short quests give less.
I do agree some quests make getting that bonus way too easy, while others make it much harder, but I also think it balances out in the end. Asking for separate quests to give separate amounts of experience for those objectives sounds like something entirely unnecessary.

How does it balance out though?

If you're talking about just getting the xp to level then players are going to gravitate towards those quests that give that xp easier and quicker!

It certainly isn't balanced by Gear - Neither Chains of Flame nor VoN 3 give anything actually worth having anymore!

And VoN 3 has a tonne of optionals {though I'm a bit worried the Devs have nerfed the spawn rate of the first two trapped chest optionals to reduce the number of runs that give Ingenious Debil!}.

Or do you mean that it's balanced out by Wiz King? You know how long it takes to SOLO Wiz King right? It's a 30-45 minute quest without DDoor! {10-15 minutes per tower}.

AND IF YOU SAY WIZ KING CAN BE DONE IN 5 MINS PER TOWER THAN YOU CAN ALSO DO VON 3 IN SIGNIFICANTLY LESS TIME THAN I WOULD TAKE!!!

I want people to WANT to RUN Chains of Flame DESPITE the run to it and the significant amount of time it takes to complete compared to other quests!

How do we do that?

- Allow Conquest to be gettable on Hard, Elite, EN and EH!

- Reduce the number of boxes required for Ransack OR move some of the boxes into groups so people can get them faster!

- Add a Ladder up to the bridge you jump off for the last two hidden slaves so you don't have to jump down a second time to make your way back up!

- Reduce the Bluff requirement to get the Ogre Mage to fight you without cooking poor Gaspar! So players on characters without Bluff as a Class skill can get this optional more often!

- Add a guaranteed Impressive Trophy or better to the End Chest on Elite {No more Heroic Deeds in Elite quests above Lvl 7 full stop preferably!} or on ANY Epic Difficulty Chest other than Casual!

- Move the Gnoll Archers from the huts by the locked door with the chest behind it so players can more easily open the door at the bottom without getting peppered! - They could be moved to the Top of the Mountain outside the door to the boss.

- Reduce the To Hit bonus of ALL Mob Archers in the game on Elite, EH, EE and LN, LH, LE! Not by massive amounts just by 2-5 points and see if that helps. R1-10 can add +1 to +10 to all Mob Archer To Hit values....According to DDOWiki To Hit values aren't changed by Reaper atm.

- Add a Teleport NPC to Zawabi's Refuge who will teleport Epic Players to Chains of Flame, An Offering of Blood and ADQ1 if they've done that Quest on Heroic Elite.

- Add a Sands Epic Saga - Wiz King, OoB, Chains, ADQ1, Desert Caravan, Maraud the Mines, Raid the Vulkoorim, Purge the Fallen Shrine {Yes this would mean Epiccing those other four quests in Sands - Make them Epic Lvl 21 on EN}.

[Xgya]

Most Depths groups are straight up zerg fests - If a player dies in Darkness and no-one can be bothered to take them back to the shrine they're likely not getting into Discord before the rest of the party is in Doom!

And if someone IS willing to run them back to the shrine they may STILL NOT get into Discord before the guy at the front is in Doom!

It's quite a run back to that shrine - I used Jibbers yesterday {I was soloing R1 before you start calling me a N00b!} and still only made it back to the door with no way to open it {that door closes as well so opening it beforehand isn't an option}.

Agreed, the chain is badly designed. My disagreement wasn't about adding the shrine (that's a pretty good one, actually), but about making the Minotaur mandatory, and changing the Conquest and Ransack elements.

If the Dogs took maybe 10 seconds longer to spawn I'd agree but if you're solo you pretty much have to kill at least the first two dogs making that bonus impossible to get with your requirement - I don't like that idea.

Getting groups for the quests you want to run isn't always possible and I don't like the idea of punising players forced to solo if they want to actually get anything done.

Avoid or CC the dogs, kill the crystals. Getting discretion optionals is something that should require more than exactly killing the quest's first spawns. By any stretch, it should require killing exactly none, with a smaller bonus if you somehow had to kill one.
If you kill the dogs, but then destroy the crystals before the dogs respawn, you weren't Cunning - you simply were Quick.

Oh dear God no!

That ToEE mechanic is AWFUL!

I'd prefer the Devs got rid of that mechanic entirely and reduced the number of mobs in ToEE to more reasonable levels!

Not talking specifically about ToEE here. I mentioned it because it's the only quest in the game that acts like an explorer zone when it comes to kills.
If they carried over between ToEE1 and 2 (and if it carried over between quest runs), it might be more memorable.

The other option is making Conquest mean you actually have to CONQUER the dang place. Kill everything that moves or could move. It would eventually make quests with constant respawns UnConquerable, but, then again, if there's still kobolds in there, did you REALLY cleanse those sewers?

I'd increase Onslaught bonuses (that would keep the number of kills prerequisite) to current Conquest bonuses, and give actual Conquest a suitably larger reward.
Plus, getting that shiny yellow text in your experience bar that says you killed EVERYTHING in there just sounds nice.

(unrelated, but I like the look and feel of the Temple. Graphically-speaking, it's awe-inspiring. It would have made for a far better experience if it was an actual explorer area, with dealing with the various cult leaders inside the quests of that zone. That's what they did for Ravenloft, and it works wonders)

- Allow Conquest to be gettable on Hard, Elite, EN and EH!

- Reduce the number of boxes required for Ransack OR move some of the boxes into groups so people can get them faster!

- Add a Ladder up to the bridge you jump off for the last two hidden slaves so you don't have to jump down a second time to make your way back up!

- Move the Gnoll Archers from the huts by the locked door with the chest behind it so players can more easily open the door at the bottom without getting peppered! - They could be moved to the Top of the Mountain outside the door to the boss.

- Reduce the To Hit bonus of ALL Mob Archers in the game on Elite, EH, EE and LN, LH, LE! Not by massive amounts just by 2-5 points and see if that helps. R1-10 can add +1 to +10 to all Mob Archer To Hit values....According to DDOWiki To Hit values aren't changed by Reaper atm.

All reasonable changes, especially the ladder and boxes (I especially dislike the boxes behind pillars at every door. Those are so easily blocked off by the decor despite you clearly having a clear shot it's baffling at best.

Not going to comment about the hit chance change, mostly because it's probably meaningless in that small a dosage. I'd rather have their attack speed reduced and damage increased so someone down there with no ranged option could take a hit, then try to open the door.

- Add a guaranteed Impressive Trophy or better to the End Chest on Elite {No more Heroic Deeds in Elite quests above Lvl 7 full stop preferably!} or on ANY Epic Difficulty Chest other than Casual!

I just think Heroic Deeds should be a scaling bonus by quest level (with an appropriate bump in Epic). No need to change anything further - if an X level quest drops Renown, it should give Y Renown.

- Reduce the Bluff requirement to get the Ogre Mage to fight you without cooking poor Gaspar! So players on characters without Bluff as a Class skill can get this optional more often!

The DC is 21 on Epic Normal. A level 21 random loot item can give +18, no insightful skill bonus required. Ship buffs alone give +4. Give a randomly looted level 21 Charisma item for another +5 to your check, for a total of 27 for a character with a base 8 Charisma. (-1 charisma, +1 epic level)

A character without the skill but properly equipped for the task can certainly do it. Someone better equipped and with better stats should manage it on Epic Elite no problem.
Someone having neither the base skill nor outside help SHOULD fail - that's why they're skill checks, and not just optionals to fight the ogre or not. They came prepared to fail, and did.

- Add a Teleport NPC to Zawabi's Refuge who will teleport Epic Players to Chains of Flame, An Offering of Blood and ADQ1 if they've done that Quest on Heroic Elite.

- Add a Sands Epic Saga - Wiz King, OoB, Chains, ADQ1, Desert Caravan, Maraud the Mines, Raid the Vulkoorim, Purge the Fallen Shrine {Yes this would mean Epiccing those other four quests in Sands - Make them Epic Lvl 21 on EN}.

We have precedent in 8-quest only Sagas with Sharn, I'd have no issue with this.
I'd rather we have a guide like the Storm Horns, carrying you to places you've already visited, but really, getting teleported directly to the shrine in the desert would already save over half the walking time, while getting moved to the gnoll platform across the bridge before Chains would help a lot more than that.

[FranOhmsford]

Agreed, the chain is badly designed. My disagreement wasn't about adding the shrine (that's a pretty good one, actually), but about making the Minotaur mandatory, and changing the Conquest and Ransack elements.

Depths of Despair is a horrible quest - Oozes, undead, earth elementals, glass spider.

The shortcut is taken by pretty much everyone because the quest just doesn't give decent xp if you do the whole quest.

Now of course brute-forcing it is pretty easy even on R1 but why not make it more worthwhile to do the whole quest rather than just taking the shortcut?

TBH the Conquest/Ransack changes probably aren't enough to stop people shortcutting it which is why I suggested making the minotaur mandatory

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with Conquest and Ransack being gettable for those who are happy to spend the extra time in there?

Making the minotaur mandatory obviously is a more divisive suggestion because it removes the benefit of the shortcut BUT even with the mandatory minotaur you're looking at what....An extra 45 seconds?

Upping the Base XP is clearly not going to happen BECAUSE of that shortcut but even without it this is still a 2 minute quest and I don't see the Devs upping the Base XP for a 2 minute quest!

Avoid or CC the dogs, kill the crystals. Getting discretion optionals is something that should require more than exactly killing the quest's first spawns. By any stretch, it should require killing exactly none, with a smaller bonus if you somehow had to kill one.
If you kill the dogs, but then destroy the crystals before the dogs respawn, you weren't Cunning - you simply were Quick.

And smashing all the barrels and crates in an absolute tonne of quests in people's houses or government buildings shouldn't be rewarded in reality either BUT this is a game and game rules apply!

You should get Discretion for not killing the GUARDS in the Lobby not the Robot Dogs in the Vault!

Not talking specifically about ToEE here. I mentioned it because it's the only quest in the game that acts like an explorer zone when it comes to kills.
If they carried over between ToEE1 and 2 (and if it carried over between quest runs), it might be more memorable.

It acts like a bad explorer zone

The other option is making Conquest mean you actually have to CONQUER the dang place. Kill everything that moves or could move. It would eventually make quests with constant respawns UnConquerable, but, then again, if there's still kobolds in there, did you REALLY cleanse those sewers?

That would reduce the xp in the game by quite a bit!

I'd increase Onslaught bonuses (that would keep the number of kills prerequisite) to current Conquest bonuses, and give actual Conquest a suitably larger reward.
Plus, getting that shiny yellow text in your experience bar that says you killed EVERYTHING in there just sounds nice.

So we get Conquest Bonus at Onslaught levels BUT no-one bothers to get Conquest ever again except in quests with very few mobs and zero respawns?

Yeah I don't see how this helps.

All reasonable changes, especially the ladder and boxes (I especially dislike the boxes behind pillars at every door. Those are so easily blocked off by the decor despite you clearly having a clear shot it's baffling at best.

Agreed!

They're also not easy for melees to smash - You have to be in exactly the right spot!

Not going to comment about the hit chance change, mostly because it's probably meaningless in that small a dosage. I'd rather have their attack speed reduced and damage increased so someone down there with no ranged option could take a hit, then try to open the door.

That's actually a decent idea so long as the damage isn't upped too much - I'd go for that

I just think Heroic Deeds should be a scaling bonus by quest level (with an appropriate bump in Epic). No need to change anything further - if an X level quest drops Renown, it should give Y Renown.

That would require a massive change to Renown which obviously isn't going to happen.

If the Devs simply coded Heroic Deeds to only appear in Elite quests up to Lvl 7, Hard quests up to Lvl 14 and Normal quests up to Lvl 21 that would help a lot!

They could do the same with Tales of Valour - Elite up to Lvl 11, Hard up to Lvl 22, Normal up to Lvl 33

The DC is 21 on Epic Normal. A level 21 random loot item can give +18, no insightful skill bonus required. Ship buffs alone give +4. Give a randomly looted level 21 Charisma item for another +5 to your check, for a total of 27 for a character with a base 8 Charisma. (-1 charisma, +1 epic level)

A character without the skill but properly equipped for the task can certainly do it. Someone better equipped and with better stats should manage it on Epic Elite no problem.
Someone having neither the base skill nor outside help SHOULD fail - that's why they're skill checks, and not just optionals to fight the ogre or not. They came prepared to fail, and did.

It's always the same - Say a skill requirement is too high and guaranteed someone will list how to hit it easily

THAT'S NOT THE POINT!

Carrying around a Bluff item means one more inventory slot taken up and possibly a spot on a sidebar as well for quick hotswapping.

Not everyone has ship buffs!

Hotswapping a Charisma item in requires carrying that Charisma item around with you as well.

AND IT'S EN NOT EE or Reaper!

Yes 21 isn't a huge requirement but it's not a negligible requirement either and I don't see any optionals in VoN 3 with skill requirements to get SO either drop the requirement or make the optional worth significantly more xp!

EN Chains of Flame and EN VoN 3 give a similar amount of XP to each other but one quest takes half the time of the other!

Chains should give more than it currently gives.
- It's out of the way
- There's no shortcuts for quick completion
- It's definitely not an easy quest
- There's a reason EH/EN Dailies groups would run OoB twice and WK twice as well as VoN 3/4, Spies and LoD but everyone leaves if you say Chains of Flame next after OoB!
- I like Chains of Flame and it would be nice to not have to solo it every time!!!

[Xgya]

And smashing all the barrels and crates in an absolute tonne of quests in people's houses or government buildings shouldn't be rewarded in reality either BUT this is a game and game rules apply!

You should get Discretion for not killing the GUARDS in the Lobby not the Robot Dogs in the Vault!

The bonus is for managing to finish the quest not killing anyone.
Even if they went with your idea, then it would make sense to remove the optional not to kill the guards, since not killing them already usually gives you experience.
Not getting rewarded twice for the same action makes a lot of sense.

That would reduce the xp in the game by quite a bit!

If they can't math it out to make it worthwhile, so be it. The game doesn't really need more XP handed out anyways.

So we get Conquest Bonus at Onslaught levels BUT no-one bothers to get Conquest ever again except in quests with very few mobs and zero respawns?

Yeah I don't see how this helps.

It's about as sensible as your proposal. Doesn't really help, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

It's always the same - Say a skill requirement is too high and guaranteed someone will list how to hit it easily

THAT'S NOT THE POINT!

Carrying around a Bluff item means one more inventory slot taken up and possibly a spot on a sidebar as well for quick hotswapping.

Not everyone has ship buffs!

Hotswapping a Charisma item in requires carrying that Charisma item around with you as well.

AND IT'S EN NOT EE or Reaper!

Yes 21 isn't a huge requirement but it's not a negligible requirement either and I don't see any optionals in VoN 3 with skill requirements to get SO either drop the requirement or make the optional worth significantly more xp!

Most skill-based optionals give similar rewards. They're meant to either be easy XP, or entirely impossible to earn so you can move on. It's pretty fine design-wise. Either a no-effort reward, or a no-effort nothing.
The requirement is negligible. It can be reached by anyone that hasn't entirely dumped Charisma, and can be 100% obtained by someone with no charisma, no skill ranks and a single item swap.
Yeah, hotswapping that item requires careful planning before you go into the quest, same as not forgetting to grab Remove Curse potions that are otherwise entirely useless outside raids and the very few fights with clay golems.
Plan ahead for the quest, get rewarded (or, in the case of remove curse potions, get entirely borked if you forgot).

EN Chains of Flame and EN VoN 3 give a similar amount of XP to each other but one quest takes half the time of the other!

Chains should give more than it currently gives.
- It's out of the way
- There's no shortcuts for quick completion
- It's definitely not an easy quest
- There's a reason EH/EN Dailies groups would run OoB twice and WK twice as well as VoN 3/4, Spies and LoD but everyone leaves if you say Chains of Flame next after OoB!
- I like Chains of Flame and it would be nice to not have to solo it every time!!!

[/quote]

You gave the idea to add it to a saga and give it a teleporter, both of which I agreed with.
Your argument about the group dropping applies for me more often at ADQ1 than it does at Chains, yet, not once did you name that one.
Your previous solution which I already supported would apply to both without needing to change the quests at all.

[FranOhmsford]

You gave the idea to add it to a saga and give it a teleporter, both of which I agreed with.
Your argument about the group dropping applies for me more often at ADQ1 than it does at Chains, yet, not once did you name that one.
Your previous solution which I already supported would apply to both without needing to change the quests at all.

I didn't mention ADQ1 because ADQ1's xp is fine.

The reason I don't run ADQ1 that much is because of the difficulty not the XP!

When I can run it I do run it and I've never had anyone drop from a group for ADQ1 unless they weren't flagged for it.

If they're not flagged they're not flagged - Upping the XP in the quest won't change that

The chances of having a dailies group stick together long enough to even get to ADQ1 is pretty low because they all drop after OoB!

[banjo174]

How about updating quests that no serious player runs anymore


Korthos
Sorrowdusk
Sharn syndicate
Tangleroot
Kobold assault
Xorian cipher
Desert caravan
Tempest spine
The age of rage
All of the madness chains
Reavers refuge chain
IQ 1 and 2

[FranOhmsford]

How about updating quests that no serious player runs anymore


Korthos

Sacrifices just got an update!

Last time I ran Misery's Peak I noticed some mobs have been moved around too.

What do you want to see updated in Korthos exactly?

Personally these are my suggestions...

- Epic Misery's Peak - Lvl 21
- Mailbox added to Korthos Village - I understand it not having a bank being a village but really it should have a Mailbox
- All Lvl 1-3 Hirelings added to the Korthos Hireling Vendor {ditto Keep on the Borderlands}.
- Fix or Remove the "To Korthos" none-quest in the Quest Compendium as it's current incompletable!

Sorrowdusk

I'm sure the Devs know my opinions on Sorrowdusk - I've stated them often enough

But here we go again....

- Move the first two quests to Base Lvl 7
- Move the last two quests to Base Lvl 9
- Add a Res Shrine after the trapped bridge in Pt 3!
- Give players more reason to bother with the side rooms in Pt 5+6
- Have Bruku give the Cult of the Six Chain immediately upon completion of Grey Moon so we don't have to speak to him TWICE to get it bestowed!

Sharn syndicate

Has already been updated - The Binders are now optional, Stand Your Ground's mob spawns have changed so it's now a much more annoying quest than it used to be!

And I just asked for a change to Stormreaver Fresco in the Opening Post of this thread!

Tangleroot

Just as with Sorrowdusk the Devs surely know my opinions on Tangleroot but here we go again...

- Move Pt 1+2 to Base Lvl 4
- Move Pt 9+10 to Base Lvl 6
- Allow Reaper Difficulty on all quests!
- Give players more reason to go into the side rooms rather than just making a beeline for the end!
- Reduce Whisperdoom's Regen to half what it currently is!
- Double the Optional XP for getting Whisperdoom's Daughters!

Kobold assault

Well it's no longer an Extreme Challenge that's for certain! That disclaimer should be removed. - Housekeeping is much harder!

- It is a 15 minute quest though so should give DOUBLE the XP it currently gives!

Xorian cipher

WHAT?

WHY?

It's a high xp quest already and the Planar Gird is still a must have item for me.

Desert caravan

I don't know what they did to this quest but they've made it much more difficult now than it was in 2018!

I'd definitely like to see it moved to Base Lvl 12 along with Offering of Blood.

Tempest spine

Easy fix - ALLOW HIRELINGS!

The age of rage

Are these the new quests in House J?

- Remove Flagging Requirements!
- Make the 3rd item Brawnpits wants easier to find!
- If we're too angry to talk then don't give us talking options - Just start the fights!

All of the madness chains

I've made no bones of my hatred of the Madness chains over the years

- The only reason I run Harbinger of Madness is the lack of available xp at Lvl 17 - I don't run Reign or Heart at all!

Reavers refuge chain

- Remove the Fish and add a proper teleporter in the Refuge!
- Reduce the extreme difficulty of the end fight in Enter the Kobold!
- Add 30 seconds to the timer in Prey on the Hunter!
- Give the Dragon more HPs in Prey on the Hunter!
- Remove the Gem requirement and allow the best slayer zone to be entered without them!

IQ 1 and 2

All of these quests should be moved to Base Lvl 20 and Epic Enabled!
Dreaming Dark should be moved to Base Lvl 21 and Epic Enabled!

[darkniteyogi]

How about updating quests that no serious player runs anymore


Korthos
Sorrowdusk
Sharn syndicate
Tangleroot
Kobold assault
Xorian cipher
Desert caravan
Tempest spine
The age of rage
All of the madness chains
Reavers refuge chain
IQ 1 and 2

Yes, arachnaphobia and other lowbie quests should be updated but also a big bulk where the playerbase will benefit are from big chains that no one runs like
refuge,
Madness chains,
Sorrowdusk - difficulty needs buff i think
iq1 and iq2

I think one EASY way devs can make game fun is by simply boosting xp of content that is time consuming to run that no one runs for that reason


PROOF IS IN THE POISON also needs xp buff. Currently xp per min is not good. Should reward players more