Celestial Pact: Reflex? Will? Please confirm. Is game or wiki correct?

[darkniteyogi]

There is a difference from the Wiki and in-game.

Celestial awareness is a reflex save in-game, but it says Will in Wiki.

What about the pact damage?

Is Celestial pact will or reflex?

Is Carceri storm will or reflex?


Can someone pls confirm which one it is?

[rikkitikkitarvi]

Celestial and Carceri Storm are weird when it comes to the pacts.

For instance
-Fey is a reflex save and the pact save bonus is Reflex
-Fiend is a fortitude save and the pact save bonus is fortitude
- Great old one is a will save and the Pact save bonus is will
- Abyss is a fortitude save and the pact save bonus is Fortitude

With Celestial
The pact save is Reflex meaning monsters will use the reflex save when saving against the damage, but the Pact Save Bonus is Will, meaning that at levels 4,8,12,16,20 you get a bonus to your will saves.

With Carceri Storm the pact save is Will meaning the monsters must save vs will against your damage, but the Pact Save Bonus is Reflex. Meaning you get a bonus to your Reflex saves.

Pact Damage Save and Pact save Bonus are two separate things so it can be very confusing. In the past both the pact Damage Save and the Pact Save Bonus were to the same type so when Celestial and Carceri came out people just assumed that was the case for those as well.

[ChicagoChris]

Celestial and Carceri Storm are weird when it comes to the pacts.

For instance
-Fey is a reflex save and the pact save bonus is Reflex
-Fiend is a fortitude save and the pact save bonus is fortitude
- Great old one is a will save and the Pact save bonus is will
- Abyss is a fortitude save and the pact save bonus is Fortitude

With Celestial
The pact save is Reflex meaning monsters will use the reflex save when saving against the damage, but the Pact Save Bonus is Will, meaning that at levels 4,8,12,16,20 you get a bonus to your will saves.

With Carceri Storm the pact save is Will meaning the monsters must save vs will against your damage, but the Pact Save Bonus is Reflex. Meaning you get a bonus to your Reflex saves.

Pact Damage Save and Pact save Bonus are two separate things so it can be very confusing. In the past both the pact Damage Save and the Pact Save Bonus were to the same type so when Celestial and Carceri came out people just assumed that was the case for those as well.

I believe the wiki matches the game at this point.

[C-Dog]

There is a difference from the Wiki and in-game.

Celestial awareness is a reflex save in-game, but it says Will in Wiki.

The Wiki previously had made this exact point very clear, stating that the release notes and in-game notes differed.

The Wiki has recently been updated to show "Reflex", w/ a mouse-over pop-up note re that contradiction.


It would be nice if the Devs could state which is wrong, the previous release notes or the game as-currently-played (and, if the latter, correct that).

[GeoffWatson]

The Wiki previously had made this exact point very clear, stating that the release notes and in-game notes differed.

The Wiki has recently been updated to show "Reflex", w/ a mouse-over pop-up note re that contradiction.


It would be nice if the Devs could state which is wrong, the previous release notes or the game as-currently-played (and, if the latter, correct that).

The release notes were correct. The save bonus is Will. The release notes didn't say what the blast save was, just that it did electric damage. Many players assumed the bast save was the same as the save bonus, and the devs maliciously did not correct them.

[ChicagoChris]

The release notes were correct. The save bonus is Will. The release notes didn't say what the blast save was, just that it did electric damage. Many players assumed the bast save was the same as the save bonus, and the devs maliciously did not correct them.

I've been trying to reconcile the various pacts in game and I can confirm that the Pact Damage Save is correct per the tool-tips in game. This is NOT to say what the save actually is.

Pact Damage Save

Celestial	Reflex
Abyss	Fortitude
Carceri	Will

I would also like to note that the Alignment description for Celestial is wrong - Feat says you must be good, but I can select Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral Good and True Neutral at character creation.

[darkniteyogi]

Celestial and Carceri Storm are weird when it comes to the pacts.

For instance
-Fey is a reflex save and the pact save bonus is Reflex
-Fiend is a fortitude save and the pact save bonus is fortitude
- Great old one is a will save and the Pact save bonus is will
- Abyss is a fortitude save and the pact save bonus is Fortitude

With Celestial
The pact save is Reflex meaning monsters will use the reflex save when saving against the damage, but the Pact Save Bonus is Will, meaning that at levels 4,8,12,16,20 you get a bonus to your will saves.

With Carceri Storm the pact save is Will meaning the monsters must save vs will against your damage, but the Pact Save Bonus is Reflex. Meaning you get a bonus to your Reflex saves.

Pact Damage Save and Pact save Bonus are two separate things so it can be very confusing. In the past both the pact Damage Save and the Pact Save Bonus were to the same type so when Celestial and Carceri came out people just assumed that was the case for those as well.

Confirmed with a new character level 4 warlock. Upon taking Celestial Awareness, Reflex changed from 0 feat bonus to 1 feat bonus. Also confirmed with an Iconic lvl 14 warlock 1 cleric the +3 bonus to reflex.

Confirmed that Wiki is wrong and Celestial pact save bonus is indeed Reflex - the same as the pact damage

[darkniteyogi]

The Wiki previously had made this exact point very clear, stating that the release notes and in-game notes differed.

The Wiki has recently been updated to show "Reflex", w/ a mouse-over pop-up note re that contradiction.


It would be nice if the Devs could state which is wrong, the previous release notes or the game as-currently-played (and, if the latter, correct that).

With this, i am referring to "Celestial Awareness", which is the Bonus to Character Saves and not the Save of the Attack.

The popup is only for the Pact damage save. The Bonus to Character save says Will in the Wiki with no popup.
It is correct in-game when it says bonus +1 to reflex per feat at level 4 8 12 16 20, and wrong in the Wiki where it says bonus to Will at level 4 8 12 16 20

(This is for Celestial Pact. I haven't tested Carceri storm)

[darkniteyogi]

I've been trying to reconcile the various pacts in game and I can confirm that the Pact Damage Save is correct per the tool-tips in game. This is NOT to say what the save actually is.

Pact Damage Save

Celestial	Reflex
Abyss	Fortitude
Carceri	Will

I would also like to note that the Alignment description for Celestial is wrong - Feat says you must be good, but I can select Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral Good and True Neutral at character creation.

Thanks for the info.

I guess everyone here is in agreement that the PACT DAMAGE SAVE is indeed Reflex for Celestial, and Will to Carceri.

[Portibraf]

I would also like to note that the Alignment description for Celestial is wrong - Feat says you must be good, but I can select Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral Good and True Neutral at character creation.

Can confirm that trying to multiclass a chaotic good character, i could choose only fey, goo and carceri. in game the feat reports "must be good" (on a lawful good character test).
Luckly I have a years old alignment swap to LG.