[F2P] Sorcerer 16/Bard 3/Figther 1 Eldritch Swashbuckler - Noob asks for suggestions

[Blacy]

Hello everyone! This is the first time I attempt to make a multiclass build and this will be awful for veterans of DDO, I know. Anyway, having problems with the game in the last 3 days due to technical issues I'm trying to solve, gave me the time and the courage to ask some opinions on this F2P build, nothing too fancy (I only possess Epic Destinies, so I'll be including those too, but i never acyually went after lvl 14 so I'm a newbie in those)

Anyway, let's proceed to the point!

Eldritch Swashbuckler
16/3/1 Sorcerer/Bard/Fighter
Chaotic Good Human


Level Order

1. Sorcerer . . . .6. Sorcerer . . . 11. Sorcerer . . . 16. Sorcerer
2. Bard. . . . . . 7. Sorcerer. . . .12. Sorcerer. . . .17. Sorcerer
3. Bard. . . . . . 8. Sorcerer. . . .13. Sorcerer. . . .18. Sorcerer
4. Bard. . . . . . 9. Sorcerer. . . .14. Sorcerer. . . .19. Sorcerer
5. Sorcerer . . . 10. Sorcerer . . . 15. Sorcerer . . . 20. Fighter


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . 4: CHA
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .16 . . . 16. . . .16 . . . 8: CHA
Constitution. . 14. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .16 . . .12: CHA
Intelligence. . .8. . . . 8 . . . 10. . . . 8 . . .16: CHA
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8 . . .20: CHA
Charisma. . . . 18. . . .18 . . . 18. . . .18 . . .24: CHA
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CHA

Skills
. . . . . S. B .B. B .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .F
. . . . . 1. 2 .3. 4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . . .5. 1 .1. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . . . ½ .16
Spellcr . 4. 1 .1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . . .1 .1 . . . . . 1. 1. . .15
Balance . 2. . .1. 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½. .7
Concent . . . . 3 .3. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 8. 6 .6. 6 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2


Feats

.1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
.1 Human. : Maximize Spell
.3. . . . : Dodge
.6. . . . : Mental Toughness
.9. . . . : Improved Mental Toughness
12. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
18. . . . : Toughness
20 Fighter: Greater Single Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Master of: Music
26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Sonic
29 Destiny: Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic . : Master of: Air
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Air


Spells

Sorcerer
Sonic Blast (1), Electric Bolt (1), Shocking Grasp (5), Magic Missile (6)
Electric Loop (7), Blur (8), Resist Energy (10), Eagle's Splendor (12)
Lightning Bolt (9), Displacement (10), Water Breathing (12), Dispel Magic (14)
Shout (11), Remove Curse (12), Dimension Door (14), Force Missiles (16)
Ball Lightning (13), Protection from Elements (14), Eladar's Electric Surge (16), Teleport (18)
True Seeing (15), Chain Lightning (16), Greater Heroism (18)
Mass Hold Person (17), Finger of Death (18)
Greater Shout (19)
Bard
<Any>, <Any>, <Any>

Enhancements (80 AP)

Eldritch Knight (Sorcerer) (39 AP)
Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force
Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon III, Toughness II
Improved Shield III, Spellpower Boost III
Eldritch Accuracy, Synergetic Magic, Charisma
Knight's Transformation, Force's Point, Charisma
Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Striker, Force's Edge, Eldritch Tempest III
Swashbuckler (21 AP)
Confidence, Swashbuckling
On Your Toes III, Limber Up I
Sword Dance III
Dashing Scoundrel, Resonant Arms III, Smooth Flourishes
Air Savant (20 AP)
Air Savant, Air Affinity, Greater Air Affinity
Spell Critical, Electrocution III
Efficient Maximize III, Spell Critical
Spell Critical, Charisma

Destiny (24 AP)

Draconic Incarnation
Energy Sheath: Electricity III, Dragonhide III, Draconic Perception III, Charisma
Out with bang: Electricity III
Dragon Heritage: Blue III
Energy Burst: Electricity III
(none)
Energy Vortex: Electricity, Fearsome Invulnerability

I really liked the idea of a pg who just shouts, electrifies and slashes his enemies with its rapier while drinking a soda and dancing around. Don't actually know if there is yet a similar and optimal build in the forums.

But, the question is: do I really need that fighter level to get to BAB 11 (in order to get the greater SWF feat) or does the EK enhancement "Knight's Transformation" count to take this feat?

Any other suggestion on how to make this build more reliable would be very appreciated, thanks!

[Discpsycho]

I dig it!

First off, the Knight Transformation stance won't work for feat purposes, it just gives you an effective full BAB for the purposes of attacking.

Are you going to be taking this guy up to 20, or beyond as well? If so, you might consider swapping some feats, since Bards can get both the Shield Mastery line and SWF. Both the doublestrike and defense boost of Legendary Shield Mastery (+ the two feats) outweigh Dashing Scoundrel by the time you hit epics, though personally I switched when I got ISM during a recent bard life.

Swapping Dodge, Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness for SM, ISM, Improved Shield Bashing would also play well with EK's Offhand Defenses. I had trouble gearing for melee attacking + spellswords and spell DCs during an EK life ended up using SP mostly for self-buffing, so you probably don't need the feats for it

[unbongwah]

But, the question is: do I really need that fighter level to get to BAB 11 (in order to get the greater SWF feat) or does the EK enhancement "Knight's Transformation" count to take this feat?

Temporary bonuses to BAB or stats do not count towards feat pre-reqs.

That said, for this build concept, sorc 16 / bard 3 / cleric 1 may be better so you can add Divine Might, now that it's no longer a STR bonus, even if it means delaying GSWF to epics.

The obvious question is: what content do you plan to run? Because a gimpy flavor build which is good enough for solo leveling on Hard isn't gonna cut it in Reapers. So it's a question of keeping your expectations realistic.

As for specific build issues, they are numerous:

• You should always start with the class with the most skill points (in this case, bard) to max out your initial points.
• Dodge, Toughness, and Mental Toughness are pretty weak. For a melee/caster hybrid like this, you need to choose your feats carefully. Either more melee DPS or more metamagics (or both) would be preferable.
• Instead of Dashing Scoundrel, consider either Skirmisher + Shield Mastery feats or Arcane Marauder so you can equip an orb. Alternatively, drop Swashbuckling entirely because -
• Competence bonuses to critical threat range don't stack. So when planning a build with access to more than one set of crit bonuses, it's important to make sure they aren't redundant. In this case, Swashbuckling and Knight's Transformation don't stack. Unless your plan is simply to take Smooth Flourishes so you get CHA to damage while SWF, but then you've spent far too many APs in Swashbuckler.

Counter-build:

Savant Knight (F2P)
16/3/1 Sorcerer/Bard/Cleric
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Bard            6. Bard           11. Sorcerer       16. Cleric
2. Sorcerer        7. Bard           12. Sorcerer       17. Sorcerer
3. Sorcerer        8. Sorcerer       13. Sorcerer       18. Sorcerer
4. Sorcerer        9. Sorcerer       14. Sorcerer       19. Sorcerer
5. Sorcerer       10. Sorcerer       15. Sorcerer       20. Sorcerer


Stats
               28pt     32pt     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength         8        8       4: CHA
Dexterity       13       14       8: CHA
Constitution    14       14      12: CHA
Intelligence    12       12      16: CHA
Wisdom           8        8      20: CHA
Charisma        17       18      24: CHA
                                 28: CHA

Skills
          B  S  S  S  S  B  B  S  S  S  S  S  S  S  S  C  S  S  S  S
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spellcr   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Perform   4              2  4                                         10
Balance   4              3  1                                          8
Jump      4                                                            4
Swim      4                                                            4
Tumble    4                                                            4
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         32  4  4  4  4  8  8  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4


Feats

 1        : Single Weapon Fighting
 1 Human  : Maximize Spell
 3        : Precision
 6        : Empower Spell OR Heighten Spell
 9        : Knight's Training
12        : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
15        : Improved Critical: Slashing
18        : Spell Focus: Evocation
21 Epic   : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
24 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting OR Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Burst of Glacial Wrath
28 Destiny: Hellball
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Arcane Warrior
30 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction OR Intensify Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Fire

16 Deity  : Follower of: Sovereign Host


Enhancements (80 AP)

Eldritch Knight (Sorcerer) (40 AP)
Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force
Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon III
Improved Shield III, Spellpower Boost III
Arcane Barrier, Eldritch Accuracy, Synergetic Magic, Charisma
Knight's Transformation, Force's Point, Armored Arcana
Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Striker, Force's Edge, Radiant Forcefield, Eldritch Tempest III

Air Savant (23 AP)
Air Savant, Air Affinity, Greater Air Affinity, Conduction
Shocking Grasp III, Spell Critical, Electrocution III
Spell Critical, Alternating Current III
Spell Critical, Charisma
Spell Critical

Swashbuckler (12 AP)
Confidence
Blow By Blow: Melee III, Tavern Shanties I
En Pointe III, Double Strike Boost I
Smooth Flourishes

Warpriest (4 AP)
Smite Foe: Melee
Divine Might III

Human (1 AP)
Damage Boost

This is not a Swashbuckler - at least, not in the long run. We will be using longswords (or battleaxes) + Knight's Training with an orb offhand. Swashbuckler is for passive bonuses, in particular Smooth Flourishes for CHA to damage. This also means we can switch to medium armor once we have Armored Arcana plus enough arcane spell failure (ASF) reduction from Eldritch Knight + augment. The late cleric splash will add heavy armor as an option: again, if you have enough ASF reduction.

If you have Veteran II status, you can skip straight to level 7 and have enough APs for Eldritch Accuracy + Smooth Flourishes right away. If not...well, you have my condolences, good luck with those first 6 levels, because they will suck.

[Blacy]

First, thank you all for the explanations and suggestions.

The obvious question is: what content do you plan to run? Because a gimpy flavor build which is good enough for solo leveling on Hard isn't gonna cut it in Reapers.

This is a flavor build, wanted to give it a try in a [normal-elite] range with a first life pg, using just f2p content (unless I get enough DDO points with favor to get the first premium adventures before)
The objective of this build was to have the maximum sonic spell power to scale "Sword Dancer" and "Resonant Arms" of swashbuckler and the maximum electric spell power for the "Spellsword" of EK, while using charisma for attack and damage

I will try to write the original build following some of the guidelines you gave me, like using shield mastery and single weapon fighting altogether, taking the counter build as a base

you have my condolences, good luck with those first 6 levels, because they will suck.

Well, I expected that at least now it's certain

for this build concept, sorc 16 / bard 3 / cleric 1 may be better so you can add Divine Might, now that it's no longer a STR bonus

If it's not a STR bonus that would be nice actually, I considered cleric at first but I went a step back because of this https://ddowiki.com/page/Warpriest_e...s#Divine_Might
Maybe it's not yet updated, because if you click on Divine might on the link above, it goes here https://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Might and doesn't seem the same thing

Tomorrow I will work on this build again and post here, maybe doing something good this time unifying my desire for a flavor character with an optimized guideline

[unbongwah]

The objective of this build was to have the maximum sonic spell power to scale "Sword Dancer" and "Resonant Arms" of swashbuckler and the maximum electric spell power for the "Spellsword" of EK, while using charisma for attack and damage

The problem with Resonant Arms is it's a proc-on-crit effect not proc-on-hit like Spellsword imbues. If you ran a wizard 20 with EK capstone, you're getting 7d12 damage per hit; +4d12 while Eldritch Power is active which should have 50% uptime ideally so let's round that off as 9d12 on average or +58.5 damage per hit at 0 Spellpower. With this build, you're only getting 5d8 Spellsword damage per hit and 6d6 sonic damage 30% of the time or the average equivalent of about "1.8d6" per attack which is about ~28.8 damage per hit.

You can boost that a bit by using an expanded crit range weapon and/or picking a rapier (or sickle with Swords to Plowshares) so you have 14-20 base crit range. But still, you're only getting ~50% as much elemental damage as the wiz 20 EK if my back-of-a-cocktail-napkin math can be trusted. Also you have to split your Spellpower gear. The wiz 20 EK only has to worry about their active Spellsword imbue; the SB+EK sorc needs two (sonic + <element> type).

https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_45_R..._Notes#Various

"All instances of Divine Might (Cleric, Favored Soul, and Paladin) are now: Battle Trance: You gain an Insight bonus to Attack, Damage, and the DC of tactical feats equal to 1/2 of your Charisma modifier for 30/60/120 seconds."