U45 THF Paladin for Racial Lives

[Kaboom2112]

That's why casual gaming is so much ignored. .

Anything works in casual. We've literally have had toddlers play our toons in casual. There's not thought or skill required.

[palladin9479]

That's why casual gaming is so much ignored. People find it to be beneath themselves to discuss building for casual gaming, because they believe "if people were building for Reaper, they'd had everything they'd need for casual gaming as well, so everyone should follow what's posted in Reaper discussions, nothing else."

It's kind of elitism to think that everyone should do what those people at the top do : And that is build everything for Reaper. Even if people do not want to play Reaper.
Reaper has become the mark to aim at, and if one doesn't, one becomes ignored.

I bet if I was posting a build with the headline of "for casual gaming", no-one would answer. Or at least no-one of the reaper builders.

So, we're stuck in a world within the top people define how a game is to be played, and that is not only elitism, it is also some kind of Oligarchy.

Nothing that guy said was related to building anything, it was about showing how awesome he was and how everyone should respect how much better then us he is.

The game isn't divided between R8 crew and the hordes of scrubs, it has at least a half dozen or more different places a player can be at. Things that work really well at R1 don't work at R8 even though both give the exact same XP. Leveling at elite in heroics isn't difficult at all and can be done fast without resulting to uber elite gimmick builds. Epics can be run on hard for similar builds, elite and reaper require with a team or a pretty good amount of PL's.

[palladin9479]

also.. what on earth is a casual gamer? there is a casual mode in the game if that is what you mean?

A casual gamer / player is one that plays for the exploration and experiencing of the event and not for some lofty goal or sense of self worth. Casual's aren't sinking twenty to forty hours per week into a video game chasing a hamster wheel to keep up with the players who sunk even more time into said video game. There was a post over in general about how DDO should have a warning to new players that they will never catch up to the top players due to the design of the hamster wheel itself. Casual players don't care about that wheel or who's at the top.

I can use myself as an example, I'm a "casual player" because I really don't care what the top end folks are doing nor do I really care what's super meta at any point in time. I play to murder pixels because it's a stress relief mechanism and exploring the various ways to murder pixels is fun and entertaining. Through all my exploring and hacking away I've found certain things work better for having fun while hacking away, and I like to share those things with others who might be doing the same thing with the hopes they'll share their findings which may prove useful.

[LavidDynch]

Casual's aren't sinking twenty to forty hours per week into a video game chasing a hamster wheel to keep up with the players who sunk even more time into said video game. There was a post over in general about how DDO should have a warning to new players that they will never catch up to the top players due to the design of the hamster wheel itself. Casual players don't care about that wheel or who's at the top.

Actually there is also this term "hardcore casual". they spend hours and hours grinding their games but never experience the produce... But if casual players dont care about the wheel why are they complaining?

Toddlers can play DDO, Im sure they dont have a deeper agenda then entertainment. I believe every player has an agenda when they play their games and all thou I love to box people into groups of "stuff" I find casual the most non-saying term. a true casual would never complain about a game -- textbook casuals.

[Tobril]

The good news is this build scales well for a new/casual player to high reaper.

Let's stay on topic and leave non-paladin discussions to the general section please.

[palladin9479]

Actually there is also this term "hardcore casual". they spend hours and hours grinding their games but never experience the produce... But if casual players dont care about the wheel why are they complaining?

Toddlers can play DDO, Im sure they dont have a deeper agenda then entertainment. I believe every player has an agenda when they play their games and all thou I love to box people into groups of "stuff" I find casual the most non-saying term. a true casual would never complain about a game -- textbook casuals.

When we talk casual we're not talking the difficulty setting but the players, myself included, who would rather have fun then be hyper efficient. This isn't a binary thing, it's not flower sniffer vs hard core DDO-as-a-my-job-reaper-11-onry but a range of players. It hurts the community at large when the DDO-as-my-job folks look down and scoff at the rest, especially as things that work at R8+ aren't very useful at Hard through R1/R2 ish.

On topic since we were discussion paladin builds at various tiers, all equally viable for their purpose.

[LavidDynch]

When we talk casual we're not talking the difficulty setting but the players, myself included, who would rather have fun then be hyper efficient. This isn't a binary thing, it's not flower sniffer vs hard core DDO-as-a-my-job-reaper-11-onry but a range of players. It hurts the community at large when the DDO-as-my-job folks look down and scoff at the rest, especially as things that work at R8+ aren't very useful at Hard through R1/R2 ish.

On topic since we were discussion paladin builds at various tiers, all equally viable for their purpose.

Trust me nothing would make me more happy if SSG eased the gap between players/characters... ppl warned about this before the EU-migration btw(2012?)!.... on the other side its one of the few things that makes DDO unique ... I´d gladly give up pastlifes and rxp etc etc for a better game and more even game play.... guess the hamsterwheel would die out then..

edit: sorry if we are not talking about paladins in this thread anymore, but they are so super easy to build that there is noithing to discuss... Idid notice that TU was worse after the buff thou, if that helps?

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

For KoTC Paladin Sanctified Fervor is better then Prowess. Prowess is +50 melee power for 10s of a 20s action boost, or 50% of the time while under any action boost. Fervor is +25 melee power for 60s anytime you use any smite. Confront and Foe is a smite, which is why it activate that ability. Paladin's natural smites recharge every 60s and with Endless Turn Undead TU charges reset every 96, that means you can have Fervor up 100% of the time. Smite evil doesn't have to actually hit anything to activate the ability, you can smite air while running and it'll still give you the +25 Melee Power.

True, the only caveat I would add that most battles are over in 10s and you are running to the next fight in the down time Fervor also only gives 30MP total for 5 pieces when a raid sucker/many gives 24MP for 3 pieces and another 2 passive MP for 34MP with 5 pieces (with no activations required). Personally I prefer 5 piece prowess and 3 raid sucker/many and then 3 5MP passives for optimal burst MP. On boss they come out to exactly the same, but in most other scenarios you come out 25MP higher. The only time Fervor wins is when boosts run out, while you can Fervor for eternity.

To be honest though, the difference is pretty minimal and I think it comes down to personal preference. Sanctified does give some good heal amp as well which is nice.

[palladin9479]

True, the only caveat I would add that most battles are over in 10s and you are running to the next fight in the down time Fervor also only gives 30MP total for 5 pieces when a raid sucker/many gives 24MP for 3 pieces and another 2 passive MP for 34MP with 5 pieces (with no activations required). Personally I prefer 5 piece prowess and 3 raid sucker/many and then 3 5MP passives for optimal burst MP. On boss they come out to exactly the same, but in most other scenarios you come out 25MP higher. The only time Fervor wins is when boosts run out, while you can Fervor for eternity.

To be honest though, the difference is pretty minimal and I think it comes down to personal preference. Sanctified does give some good heal amp as well which is nice.

Minor Artifacts give you 3, Weapons give you 8 for a total of 11.

In my artifact I have the Combo OaM/SP rare with both Sucker Punch and OaM Melee Power Rare for +24. In my Weapon I have all 5 Fervor for +10 melee power and another +25 (35 total) up permanently, in the final three slots I have Prowess Melee Power (Rare), Prowess Strength (Rare) and Prowess Attack and Damage (Rare) for another +10 Melee Power. Total is +69 Melee power that's up permanently along with a big stack of other bonus's.

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

In my artifact I have the Combo OaM/SP rare with both Sucker Punch and OaM Melee Power Rare for +24. In my Weapon I have all 5 Fervor for +10 melee power and another +25 (35 total) up permanently, in the final three slots I have Prowess Melee Power (Rare), Prowess Strength (Rare) and Prowess Attack and Damage (Rare) for another +10 Melee Power. Total is +69 Melee power that's up permanently along with a big stack of other bonus's.

OaM/SP = 24 + 3*5 = 39MP + 10 from Prowess = 49 passive + 50MP /50% = 74MP average. On most fights i,e, less than 10 seconds that is 99MP. Less of other bonuses though.

[palladin9479]

OaM/SP = 24 + 3*5 = 39MP + 10 from Prowess = 49 passive + 50MP /50% = 74MP average. On most fights i,e, less than 10 seconds that is 99MP. Less of other bonuses though.

That math isn't adding up, or you messing with order of operations.

3 on artifact is 24 Melee Power, period end of story.

Then you have eight on your weapon but I think you don't have an artifact leveled up since your only talking eight total.

Prowess is +10 for all five pieces, one is +5 Melee power and third rank bonus is another +5.

Prowess activation bonus is +50 for 10s with a 20s minimum cooldown, 30s if anything other then LD, so +25/16.6 average.

KoTC is not an action boost spammer, you only have six naturally (9 in LD). Without trying I have over 22 on fighter.

With fervor,

3 on artifact is 24 Melee Power, period end of story.

Sanctified is +10 for all five pieces, one is +5 Melee power and the third rank bonus is another +5.
Fervor Bonus is +25 for 60s with a 0s minimum cool down, functionally infinite for +25 average.

Both give you the exact same average, Fervor is forever and doesn't rely on action boost charges which are easily depletable.

Honestly I've just stopped caring about AB on KoTC, so many different abilities to active that the action boost isn't much. +30 Melee Power is nice at a low level, it's a +9.7% increase at my lowest possible melee power and ~7% towards the higher end, so I pop it when I'm going to dump CAF charges into a boss's face and that's about it.

At the end of the date Prowess has been massively reduced in power from back when it was +100 melee power, then 75 then now to 50. It's no longer the "absolute must have" it was before and that has opened up room for other sets. The Epic Destiny update last year also made many destinies practical, Legendary Dreadnaught is no longer the "must be this or GTFO" it once was.

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

That math isn't adding up, or you messing with order of operations.

No my math is correct. I certainly have 11 slots - I have literally 4 weapons all at maximum 8 slots and multiple minor artifacts all at max slots...
5 piece prowess= 10MP passive
3 piece OaM/SP = 24MP passive

34 passive MP from weapon.

Then 3*5 passive from minor artifact.

= 49 passive MP

50MP /50% = 74MP average, with peak for 99 MP.

Again, most fights it will be running. Very rare to be constantly hitting things except for boss/raids in which case you use the average of 74 MP. This is EXACTLY the same as Fervor! The only reason I am commenting on this is because you said Fervor is BETTER than Prowess. My point is Prowess is situationally better or in most cases the same for most people. Now, if you honestly only have 6 boosts then **** yes, run in Fervor! I have never run out of boosts as far as I can remember in general play. The only time I have was when I was basically soloing a legendary raid.

I have never had 6 boosts in all of my lives. At a minimum you should have 14. If you don't then you are forgoing far too much DPS. Prowess gives an extra 2 uses per boost that you have. It is easy to pick up more through twisting destiny, human/half orc etc or boosts through items. For example - Attack boost from tier 2 of Kotc + haste boost from LD = 14, and then extra action boost takes it to 20 boosts.

Honestly I've just stopped caring about AB on KoTC, so many different abilities to active that the action boost isn't much. +30 Melee Power is nice at a low level, it's a +9.7% increase at my lowest possible melee power and ~7% towards the higher end, so I pop it when I'm going to dump CAF charges into a boss's face and that's about it.

You should be using a haste boost as well, it is a full DPS increase of 30%. I normally use Haste until they run out then switch to melee power boosts.

[palladin9479]

See now your listing everything out which makes it easier to discuss. Also don't conflate total set with Prowess vs Fervor, there is a reason I listed each separately.

Prowess x5 = +10 melee power passive +50 for 10s out of every 20 or 30s thus the +25 average in LD +16 in anything else.

Fervor x5 = +10 melee power passive +25 with permanent effect.

Mathematically, best case scenario is they are identical, everything not best case has Fervor winning. That is why I side with Fervor, sustained damage is usually better then spike unless the spike damage is ridiculous. Exalted Smite is a perfect example of this, giant waste of points in most situations, quite useful if running Fury of the Wild and linking with Adrenaline.

When I was running Ranger or Fighter in epics I definitely used Prowess x5, on KoTC Paladin after several trips up and down I found neither Prowess nor AB Haste wasn't doing much for me in most fights. Boss fights they would be useful but those I just blow whatever remaining CAF charges I have left. You only have 9 charges of AB Haste without having to screw with gear, the bonus's from Prowess are lost the moment you switch to wand to put up Shield and other UMD related spells. You are doing those right...

We've listed several gear sets that are quite good, notice how they aren't packing the Precision lenses or anything else that gives +AB charges. This is for racials / ETR's so you may or may not be on a race that has bonus action boosts or may not even have the points to put there. Overall it seems your putting in a lot of work to make something be the same as something we get for free.

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

We've listed several gear sets that are quite good, notice how they aren't packing the Precision lenses or anything else that gives +AB charges. This is for racials / ETR's so you may or may not be on a race that has bonus action boosts or may not even have the points to put there. Overall it seems your putting in a lot of work to make something be the same as something we get for free.

I'll agree as it makes sense for racials/ ETR which is the objective of this post. I guess I was thinking something that works better at endgame as well i.e. Silvanus Maul running in LD for max damage. To be honest though, you should really look into haste boosts, I can't see how you think a 30% increase is DPS is nothing - you should be using every single fight. This build is okay but it is just giving up so much damage by not going the burst route - if played right you are pretty much bursting 100% of the time - downtime is for running between fights. Mobs in high reaper literally die in 1-2 seconds or less.

[palladin9479]

I'll agree as it makes sense for racials/ ETR which is the objective of this post. I guess I was thinking something that works better at endgame as well i.e. Silvanus Maul running in LD for max damage. To be honest though, you should really look into haste boosts, I can't see how you think a 30% increase is DPS is nothing - you should be using every single fight. This build is okay but it is just giving up so much damage by not going the burst route - if played right you are pretty much bursting 100% of the time - downtime is for running between fights. Mobs in high reaper literally die in 1-2 seconds or less.

Maul is only a favored weapon if you started an Iconic in Eveningstar.

Haste Boost's only boost your DPS when your holding the mouse button down, KoTC has a huge selection of damage abilities that don't get a huge increase from AB Haste, namely Confront and Foe, Holy Retribution and either Strike Down or Momentum Swing ED depending. Further KoTC Paladin gets nothing natively to support AB spam meaning your reaching for options. I do high reaper and murder packs of mobs in seconds, without AB haste, again because KoTC gets a large selection of buttons that do damage and don't get large benefits from attack speed.

Now if you wanna run AB charges then go for it but I'd suggest a 18/2 or 19/1 split with Fighter and put points in AB Haste and Extra AB's from it, even extra tactics to stack with HR and KoTC.

Also you mentioned the +1 threat range in LD for Mauls (applies to Warhammers to), Divine Crusader also gets +1 critical threat range but it's to all weapons along with a bunch of other cool stuff that synergies really well with KoTC Paladin and War Domain cleric. When they did the ED pass they made it really nice as a hybrid DPS support.

[LavidDynch]

Maul is only a favored weapon if you started an Iconic in Eveningstar.

Haste Boost's only boost your DPS when your holding the mouse button down, KoTC has a huge selection of damage abilities that don't get a huge increase from AB Haste, namely Confront and Foe, Holy Retribution and either Strike Down or Momentum Swing ED depending. Further KoTC Paladin gets nothing natively to support AB spam meaning your reaching for options. I do high reaper and murder packs of mobs in seconds, without AB haste, again because KoTC gets a large selection of buttons that do damage and don't get large benefits from attack speed.

Totally agree, AB haste on a class that can more or less chain Confront any Foe (if you time it -- not hard) seems like a waste or 2nd prio if your using prowess as a backup. I find the MP-buff much stronger on these kinds of builds.

[Areago]

What would you suggest to take as extra feats? from human race

[DrawingGuy]

Force of Personality is a good feat option. Lets you completely dump WIS. There is, of course, no shortage of options (Epic DR, weapon focuses, having both imp crit bludgeon/slash to flip between weapon options if Silvanus, etc.). The feat choices made here are pretty flexible too outside of the core melee feats.

So I plan on doing a Paladin PDK life to knock out my Ancient Blessing past lives. Figured I'd share the equipment setup I plan on for end game:

Goggles: Collective Sight (STR, Insightful STR)
Head: Executioner Helm
Neck: Family Blessing
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism
Cloak: Cloak of the City's Champion
Belt: Slave Lords Chains (Sheltering 45, Armor Piercing 23, Intimidate 22, Quality CHA 4)
Gloves: Hammerfist
Boots: Softsole Slippers
Bracers: Sunken Chains (Quality STR 5)
(Defensive Swap) Bracers: Hallowed Castigator
Ring 1: Celestial Sapphire (CON 21)
Ring 2: Stolen Signet of Ir'Wynarn
Armour: Enforcer Plate

The only real problem I see with this setup is not fitting in Accuracy and Deception items. Having swaps of SL belts would be a good idea. Accuracy for high AC/low fort quests, and Deception for low AC/low fort quests (typically only older stuff)

[adrian69]

TWF and THF can't be mixed, unless there's something funny happening now. One style is all you get.

.

You can have both feat lines, space considering. You only benefit from the style of weapon you hold in your hand. TWF will not cause your THF swings to land a second imaginary hand on the way and THF isn't going to cause your TWF swings to hit a second target.

SWF does lock out TWF/THF.

[palladin9479]

Retooled a bit.

Weapon: BlackRazor with 8 Filigree slots, Ruby of Cold Iron, Deconstructor
Eyes: Legendary Collective Sight (+10 Ins Constitution +21 Wisdom), Sapphire of Armored Agility +2 (changed to Ins Con)
Head: Legendary Umber Brim, Sapphire of Resistance +8
Neck: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism
Body: Legendary Enforcers Plate, Golem's Heart
Back: Legendary Mantle of Fury, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash with 3 Filigre slots, Topaz of Power +250, Diamond of Dexterity +8, Topaz of Blindness Immunity
Belt: Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash, Topaz of Deathblock
Ring1: Legendary Celestial Topaz Ring (Charisma +21), Draconic Soul Gem
Ring2: Legendary Slavers (Shelter/Devotion/Shatter/Quality Strength)
Feet: Legendary Softsole Slippers, Topaz of Feather Falling
Hands: Legendary Hammerfist, Sapphire of Good Luck +2

This turned out to work extremely well and I'm still over 2K HP in town and considerably higher in Reaper. have something like 160~190 attack bonus and have no problems hitting stuff in R8-R10 so no accuracy item is needed. This setup trash's groups of mobs, rush in and Charge / HR / Strike Down / Confront or just regular cleaves / swings, even regular Trip is really useful.