U45 Dragonborn THF Pally Build Please

[ElrondElfKing]

Starting my fourth life. Past lives Fighter, Barb, and Cleric. Thinking of Dragonborn for STR +2 and CHA +2. Will be a primarily solo build, so need a balance of DPS, survivability, and healing. I'll be swinging a two handed axe. Thoughts?

[palladin9479]

Switch weapons at level 10~12, do you have a Sword of Shadows? If not then you can pickup a Barovian Great Sword to qualify for the Favored Weapons effects which are pretty significant.

[Tilomere]

Dragonborn, 36 point build, no tomes, lawful good

Stats
18 Strength
6 Dex
14 Con
12 Int
16 Wisdom + level ups
16 Charisma

Skills: Heal, concentration, balance

Levels and feats
1 Cleric Power Attack, Sovereign Host
2 Cleric Air Domain (soundburst DC)
3 Cleric Cleave (soundburst spell)
4 Cleric
5 Cleric
6 Cleric Great Cleave
7 Cleric
8 Wizard Spell Focus: Evocation (soundburst DC)
9 Wizard Two Handed Fighting
10 Wizard (blur spell)
11 Wizard
12 Wizard Heighten (soundburst DC), Improved Two Handed Fighting (displacement and haste spells)
13 Paladin
14 Paladin
15 Paladin Improved Critical: Slashing
16 Paladin
17 Paladin
18 Paladin Greater Two Handed Fighting
19 Paladin
20 Paladin Reincarnate

AP

8 first get warpriest 30 melee power boost and divine might
16 second get dragonborn evocationx3 and spell pen
7 third get pale master zombie form 1.2x damage, heal with cleric negative energy spells and cloak of night for invis at will
12 fourth get the EK toggle for ghost touch and synergistic magic spell power to melee power boost
Next do whatever you want, we will reset AP at level 12

At level 12 (46 AP), will swap to
39 AP Eldritch Knight all tier 5s except forcefield, with evocation focus in tier 5 for soundburst DC (action boost spell power + synergistic magic to get melee power boost out of spell power boost)
7 Zombie Form + cloak of night

Then get the 8 warpriest 30 melee power boost and divine might again
Then get 18 dragonborn evocationx3 and spell pen again
Then get paladin defensive stance more negamp out of pale master

Gameplay:
Basically you are going to aggro mobs and run to the casters in back dragging melee. Then block a second to activate cloak of night invisibiilty so mobs search for you by running on top of you. Then drop a heightened soundburst for AoE helpless (wear some wisdom and evocation gear), activate a melee power boost, and then eldritch tempest things in zombie form, following up with cleaves.

Basically we first add all the bonus damage die on cleaves and from power attack to our attack damage to get a solid base damage regardless of even being in starter gear. Then we are multiplying our attack due to hitting AoE with cleaves. Then multiplying our cleaves by zombie 120% damage. Then multiplying again by a massive crit profile. Then multiplying again by helpless. Then multiplying by a solid melee power. Out pops total damage #s that will drop your jaw, even on a first life new character in starter gear. It will look like this, but with more paladin levels, and hopefully better than starting gear on a test iconic, oh and some prr/AC from armor:



Start with staves, and master's touch with wizard great axes at level 8. EK core 2 at level 10 will let you use any martial weapon.

[ElrondElfKing]

Wow, thanks for the work, but you're way over my head. I didnt get half of what you were saying. I know how to go stomp stomp. Your starting stats look around where I thought. Why level ups to WIS and not CON or STR? Also, I've been running toons with CON higher than STR. How will having a lower CON affect my survivability when I start getting hammered on? I don't like dying. And is there no advantage to pure pally even after the pass?

And I never put points into intimidate or want to grab aggro. I'm not good enough yet to build and equip a character who can withstand a pounding.

Again, thanks for your thoughtful response.

[palladin9479]

Wow, thanks for the work, but you're way over my head. I didnt get half of what you were saying. I know how to go stomp stomp. Your starting stats look around where I thought. Why level ups to WIS and not CON or STR? Also, I've been running toons with CON higher than STR. How will having a lower CON affect my survivability when I start getting hammered on? I don't like dying. And is there no advantage to pure pally even after the pass?

And I never put points into intimidate or want to grab aggro. I'm not good enough yet to build and equip a character who can withstand a pounding.

Again, thanks for your thoughtful response.

When I get home I'll post a THF pure Paladin build that's fun and will get you through heroics easily and could also work well at cap. I did Dragonborn Paladin awhile back and got nearly a dozen epic past lives back to back with it. I'll put a short version here.

The above poster is giving you a cleric build that use's WIS to do some magic stuff, notice how he's starting at level 15? That means Iconic to bypass how absolutely painful that build will be at lower levels. Anyhow no need for that kind of silliness as the recent updates to KoTC makes paladin incredibly strong in heroics, though there are some bugs we're tracking.

Strength: 20
Dexterity: -6 (this is a dump stat)
Constitution: 14 (minimum, more is better)
Wisdom: 10 (8 is acceptable but not sure what your tomes are and you'll need 14 to cast all your spells)
Int: 10
Charisma: 18~20 (not sure you can get 20 here with a 14 Con) but 18 works just as well)

Feats
1: THF
3: Power Attack
6: ITHF
9: Improved Crit Slashing
12: GTHF
15: Whatever you want
18: Whatever you want

You can hit 20 and TR easily with this. Damage is done via Great Swords or Mauls, both are favored weapons. Healing is via Lay on Hands, CLW is available at 4 put is super weak, CMW is much better and you get that at level 12, CSW is amazing but you won't get that until your entering the end of heroics.

Now the other question, are you planning on doing epics and what tomes do you have? Precision isn't very noticeably in heroics but becomes godly in epics where that 25% fort bypass starts to shine and the +10 damage from Power Attack starts to mean less and less. Precision has a 13 DEX requirement and is mutually exclusive with Power Attack. If this is a build aiming at epics we can substitute the PA feat with something else and plan to pickup Precision around 15 or 18, will also have to adjust DEX based on tomes so you can at least hit the mark. My last builds were with +7 or higher tomes that had me hitting 13 Dex at 19 so I used my 21 Feat for Precision and 24 for Overwhelming Crit. The +6 tome bonus is at level 15 meaning you can start with 7 DEX and hit 13 DEX right as your hit your first "optional" feat slot.

[ElrondElfKing]

When I get home I'll post a THF pure Paladin build that's fun and will get you through heroics easily and could also work well at cap. I did Dragonborn Paladin awhile back and got nearly a dozen epic past lives back to back with it. I'll put a short version here.

The above poster is giving you a cleric build that use's WIS to do some magic stuff, notice how he's starting at level 15? That means Iconic to bypass how absolutely painful that build will be at lower levels. Anyhow no need for that kind of silliness as the recent updates to KoTC makes paladin incredibly strong in heroics, though there are some bugs we're tracking.

Strength: 20
Dexterity: -6 (this is a dump stat)
Constitution: 14 (minimum, more is better)
Wisdom: 10 (8 is acceptable but not sure what your tomes are and you'll need 14 to cast all your spells)
Int: 10
Charisma: 18~20 (not sure you can get 20 here with a 14 Con) but 18 works just as well)

Feats
1: THF
3: Power Attack
6: ITHF
9: Improved Crit Slashing
12: GTHF
15: Whatever you want
18: Whatever you want

You can hit 20 and TR easily with this. Damage is done via Great Swords or Mauls, both are favored weapons. Healing is via Lay on Hands, CLW is available at 4 put is super weak, CMW is much better and you get that at level 12, CSW is amazing but you won't get that until your entering the end of heroics.

Now the other question, are you planning on doing epics and what tomes do you have? Precision isn't very noticeably in heroics but becomes godly in epics where that 25% fort bypass starts to shine and the +10 damage from Power Attack starts to mean less and less. Precision has a 13 DEX requirement and is mutually exclusive with Power Attack. If this is a build aiming at epics we can substitute the PA feat with something else and plan to pickup Precision around 15 or 18, will also have to adjust DEX based on tomes so you can at least hit the mark. My last builds were with +7 or higher tomes that had me hitting 13 Dex at 19 so I used my 21 Feat for Precision and 24 for Overwhelming Crit. The +6 tome bonus is at level 15 meaning you can start with 7 DEX and hit 13 DEX right as your hit your first "optional" feat slot.

Hi, and thanks for the great work. Here are some points and questions:
- I won't be doing any epics for awhile on this toon. I'm going for completionist and will be starting the fourth life soon.
- Level ups to which stat?
- I have +7 tomes to all stats. I may get some skill tomes also.
- I have a nice collection of greataxes built up. Will they work? I have some greatswords on another toon, but many of them are epic items. No mauls.
- What about cleave and great cleave? I would really miss spamming those.
- I'm also starting to cannith craft and am almost done with my level 1 set. What are some important enchantments to have specific to paladin?

Thanks again

[palladin9479]

Hi, and thanks for the great work. Here are some points and questions:
- I won't be doing any epics for awhile on this toon. I'm going for completionist and will be starting the fourth life soon.
- Level ups to which stat?
- I have +7 tomes to all stats. I may get some skill tomes also.
- I have a nice collection of greataxes built up. Will they work? I have some greatswords on another toon, but many of them are epic items. No mauls.
- What about cleave and great cleave? I would really miss spamming those.
- I'm also starting to cannith craft and am almost done with my level 1 set. What are some important enchantments to have specific to paladin?

Thanks again

Ok good, no epics means I can scratch precision and it's 13 DEX requirement out, also means your going to spend more of your time from 1 to 15 so the focus is on kicking butt from the get-go.

All levels ups are in Strength, on Paladin the only viable general build is Strength. There is a Charisma Build but that involves being an Iconic PDK and using a +1 heart to remove the 1 fighter level.

All of Paladin's abilities are fueled by either Strength or Charisma so pile those on whenever possible.

Ok the +7 means you can get precision by 15 if you want by stealing points from wisdom and putting them in dex, just need 11 Wis by 4, 12 Wis by 8, 13 Wis by 12 and 14 Wis by 14 to cast your spells, though level 1 spells generally suck at 4.

Nope great axe won't work, your playing a divine and the new KoTC update made it very clear that Favored Weapons are needed. Your starting favored weapon is based on your deity, and the KoTC tree adds more to the list as you go on. At low levels it doesn't matter so you can use Carnifax until level 10~12 where it does start to matter, you want a Sword of Shadows or something like a Barovian Great Sword, Whirlwind or Insanity. The Barovian works really well with Paladin's already extremely anti-undead / anti-evil-outsider nature.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Deity_feats

https://ddowiki.com/page/Favored_weapon

The KoTC damage tier 3 adds Great Sword to your Favored Weapons list so it counts even if you start with something like Onatar or Sovereign Host. Using a Favored Weapons adds all sorts of really nice bonus's.

At 12 your going to get access to some pretty amazing stuff, first being a 15% Fort Bypass along with stacking +3 melee power (up to 15 times) bonus against undead / evil outsider with favored weapon. Second is Holy Retribution which is a cleave attack that just outright kills evil stuff infront of you. It has a HP requirement but most everything in heroics will fall within that requirement.

On cleaves, do not take the feats they are a waste. Paladin KoTC gets those cleaves for free in the form of Exalted Cleave (shares timer with Cleave) and Avenging Cleave (shares with great cleave).

Paladin currently gets 3 feats for "free"

Knight's Training
Cleave
Great Cleave

Another build you want might want to look at later is a SWF or S&B build with Long Swords, War Hammers or Battle Axes due to those all being favored weapons and eligible for KT bonus's.

[ElrondElfKing]

Ok good, no epics means I can scratch precision and it's 13 DEX requirement out, also means your going to spend more of your time from 1 to 15 so the focus is on kicking butt from the get-go.

All levels ups are in Strength, on Paladin the only viable general build is Strength. There is a Charisma Build but that involves being an Iconic PDK and using a +1 heart to remove the 1 fighter level.

All of Paladin's abilities are fueled by either Strength or Charisma so pile those on whenever possible.

Ok the +7 means you can get precision by 15 if you want by stealing points from wisdom and putting them in dex, just need 11 Wis by 4, 12 Wis by 8, 13 Wis by 12 and 14 Wis by 14 to cast your spells, though level 1 spells generally suck at 4.

Nope great axe won't work, your playing a divine and the new KoTC update made it very clear that Favored Weapons are needed. Your starting favored weapon is based on your deity, and the KoTC tree adds more to the list as you go on. At low levels it doesn't matter so you can use Carnifax until level 10~12 where it does start to matter, you want a Sword of Shadows or something like a Barovian Great Sword, Whirlwind or Insanity. The Barovian works really well with Paladin's already extremely anti-undead / anti-evil-outsider nature.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Deity_feats

https://ddowiki.com/page/Favored_weapon

The KoTC damage tier 3 adds Great Sword to your Favored Weapons list so it counts even if you start with something like Onatar or Sovereign Host. Using a Favored Weapons adds all sorts of really nice bonus's.

At 12 your going to get access to some pretty amazing stuff, first being a 15% Fort Bypass along with stacking +3 melee power (up to 15 times) bonus against undead / evil outsider with favored weapon. Second is Holy Retribution which is a cleave attack that just outright kills evil stuff infront of you. It has a HP requirement but most everything in heroics will fall within that requirement.

On cleaves, do not take the feats they are a waste. Paladin KoTC gets those cleaves for free in the form of Exalted Cleave (shares timer with Cleave) and Avenging Cleave (shares with great cleave).

Paladin currently gets 3 feats for "free"

Knight's Training
Cleave
Great Cleave

Another build you want might want to look at later is a SWF or S&B build with Long Swords, War Hammers or Battle Axes due to those all being favored weapons and eligible for KT bonus's.

Great info. So great sword it is then. Could you perhaps show me what the build would look like?

[palladin9479]

I listed the starting stats and feats, which is all you really need. Gear wise is up to you as it'll change constantly throughout heroics. Skills are up to you thought I like Heal, Intimidate and Search, UMD is more of an epic thing as that's where you enough of it to do cool stuff.

[unbongwah]

Wow, thanks for the work, but you're way over my head.

Yeah that's a pretty normal response to a Tilomere build when you don't know what they're doing.

The gist of this concept is to take advantage of the added damage from helplessness caused by Sound Burst (cleric spell hence why WIS is leveled) with the high burst damage from Eldritch Tempest ("Perform a spinning melee attack, dealing weapon damage +5[W] to all nearby enemies and knocking them prone for 1 second. This attack has +10 to Critical Threat Range and +3 to Critical Multiplier") and the +20% damage from zombie form. If anything survives that initial Tempest, finish them off with the other Cleave attacks in your arsenal before Sound Burst wears off.

It is only a "paladin" in the sense it takes enough paladin levels to qualify for the past-life feat.

[Tilomere]

It is only a "paladin" in the sense it takes enough paladin levels to qualify for the past-life feat.

KoTC, even if half the tree wasn't broken, would still be a stars-aligned enhancement tree that only works 1/3 of the time. So yea.

[palladin9479]

KoTC, even if half the tree wasn't broken, would still be a stars-aligned enhancement tree that only works 1/3 of the time. So yea.

Half the tree is not broken, so far only two items are really needing and the devs are aware of them.

Divine Retribution DC and Ascendancy only working on Undead and Chaotic Evil monsters.

Outside of those two the three is extremely strong in heroics, I'm in the middle of it right now for my Dwarf racial PL's.

This time around I'm doing THF, next time I'll do SWF and the third I haven't made up my mind. Each time I'm testing different aspects and how it handles for someone who isn't hyper meta gaming.

I mean we could all just take Assimar with two levels of monk and falconry, then play the exact same build with whatever for the remaining 18 class levels.

So far THF has been really strong, thought I think next life SWF will be stronger as both the Nightforged Avenger Blade and Axe of Adaxus exist and orbs are easy spots to slow in +Devotion SP to make self heals stronger.

Plus soundburst only works on mobs susceptible to stun, meaning over half the mobs we face in Heroics along with both the best expansions are off the table. That and we're going from 1 to 20, not 1 to Otto's box to 20.

[ElrondElfKing]

Yeah that's a pretty normal response to a Tilomere build when you don't know what they're doing.

The gist of this concept is to take advantage of the added damage from helplessness caused by Sound Burst (cleric spell hence why WIS is leveled) with the high burst damage from Eldritch Tempest ("Perform a spinning melee attack, dealing weapon damage +5[W] to all nearby enemies and knocking them prone for 1 second. This attack has +10 to Critical Threat Range and +3 to Critical Multiplier") and the +20% damage from zombie form. If anything survives that initial Tempest, finish them off with the other Cleave attacks in your arsenal before Sound Burst wears off.

It is only a "paladin" in the sense it takes enough paladin levels to qualify for the past-life feat.

It seems counter-intuitive that a Paladin would take a zombie form, doesn't it?

[palladin9479]

It seems counter-intuitive that a Paladin would take a zombie form, doesn't it?

Its because your not playing Paladin, your playing an EK with some Cleric thrown in, the Paladin levels are just there for filler and to qualify for a PL. It's similar to the many Warlock builds that used to exist for rapid PL's and have been supplanted by Arti Inq's or Monk Falconry Inq's.

[ElrondElfKing]

Half the tree is not broken, so far only two items are really needing and the devs are aware of them.

Divine Retribution DC and Ascendancy only working on Undead and Chaotic Evil monsters.

Outside of those two the three is extremely strong in heroics, I'm in the middle of it right now for my Dwarf racial PL's.

This time around I'm doing THF, next time I'll do SWF and the third I haven't made up my mind. Each time I'm testing different aspects and how it handles for someone who isn't hyper meta gaming.

I mean we could all just take Assimar with two levels of monk and falconry, then play the exact same build with whatever for the remaining 18 class levels.

So far THF has been really strong, thought I think next life SWF will be stronger as both the Nightforged Avenger Blade and Axe of Adaxus exist and orbs are easy spots to slow in +Devotion SP to make self heals stronger.

Plus soundburst only works on mobs susceptible to stun, meaning over half the mobs we face in Heroics along with both the best expansions are off the table. That and we're going from 1 to 20, not 1 to Otto's box to 20.

What would your choices in the KOTC tree look like?

[ElrondElfKing]

What would be some paladin-specific cannith enhancements I could build? I'm currently a level 314 crafter.

[palladin9479]

What would your choices in the KOTC tree look like?

T1
Holy Combatant: 1/1
Shield Breaker: 3/3

T2
Adept Combatant: 1/1
Divine Might: 3/3
Exalted Cleave: 1/1
AB Melee Power: 3/3

T3
Holy Combatant: 1/1
Strength: 1/1

T4
Knight's Training: 1/1
Censure Demons: 1/1
Vigor of Life: 1/1
Strength: 1/1

T5
Ascendency: 1/1
Censure Outsiders: 1/1
Vigor of Life: 1/1
Avenging Cleave: 1/1
Holy Retribution: 1/1

The rest of my points are in Sacred Defender which is an amazing secondary tree for defense which is a necessity for melee builds.

When I get into epics I might respec and remove the cleaves, thought I still need to hit 41 points and Exalted Smite is a huge noob trap. It's really expensive (9AP) for what it gives us and those points can generally be spent elsewhere for more useful abilities. Cleaves are useful for clearing trash mobs in heroics, I haven't had a chance to play test them in epics so not sure about their viability now that they can doublestrike and animation is reduced with haste. This life I'm running my SWF Paladin build with an orb for devotion, will likely take it to 30 just to play test KoTC in epics. After double TR I might run a THF Paladin up again for my third dwarf life.

Yes I'm rocking a Dwarf Paladin with a warhammer. Moradin be proud.

[palladin9479]

What would be some paladin-specific cannith enhancements I could build? I'm currently a level 314 crafter.

Devotion is your best friend.

Two items I've made for myself are

Orb
ML: 10
Devotion
Insightful Devotion
Positive Spell Lore

Trinket
ML: 15
Positive Spell Lore
Devotion
Insightful Devotion

Really helps boost the cure spells to let you solo reaper difficulty better. Could also swap out Positive Spell Lore for Shatter at 15 as Holy Retribution relies on that and we can get an easy 9 DC that way.

Everything else is a combination of Ravenloft and Sharn gear. Part of the Family + Adherents of the Mists.

[ElrondElfKing]

Devotion is your best friend.

Two items I've made for myself are

Orb
ML: 10
Devotion
Insightful Devotion
Positive Spell Lore

Trinket
ML: 15
Positive Spell Lore
Devotion
Insightful Devotion

Really helps boost the cure spells to let you solo reaper difficulty better. Could also swap out Positive Spell Lore for Shatter at 15 as Holy Retribution relies on that and we can get an easy 9 DC that way.

Everything else is a combination of Ravenloft and Sharn gear. Part of the Family + Adherents of the Mists.

Beautiful. thank you so much.

[palladin9479]

Beautiful. thank you so much.

Update to that list, I found a better level 15 trinket design.

ML15 Trinket
Strength +8
Shatter +9 (very useful for Holy Retribution)
Insightful Strength +3

I also put Charisma +8 on my Heroic Celestial Topaz Ring.

If you can get it to drop, the Tiara of Madness has Shatter +8 and can be upgraded with some cool stuff. I've had no luck with it after many runs so I just CC'd my own shatter item.

So you can swap between trinkets as needed.

I intend to farm this when I get into epics.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Globe_of_Incandescence

This is kinda the reason I prefer SWF over THF, that extra slot really helps for hybrid class's like Paladin who need some form of specialized spell power.