Changes Based on Preview 2 Feedback

[tpbtoc]

So with this changes there is no reason to play any other THF then a Frenzied Berserker, as they have a greater advantage. Some massive crits and better AoE. And if you have the racial points to spend, being Aasimar for awesome self heals.

KoTC still far behind. The better saves and more self heals do not make up for it, at least on higher difficults.

[Cetus]

So with this changes there is no reason to play any other THF then a Frenzied Berserker, as they have a greater advantage. Some massive crits and better AoE. And if you have the racial points to spend, being Aasimar for awesome self heals.

KoTC still far behind. The better saves and more self heals do not make up for it, at least on higher difficults.

Don't forget bears too. Wolves and Inquis Online has turned into Bears, Alchemists, and Barbs Online

[Zer0AcmE]

Pure Paladin is still 50-60 AC behind pure Fighter.

[Ashlayna]

I suspect your FvS AA heroic build will do slightly more damage after the changes if you using elemental srrow or archers focus.

So as long as I'm willing to pigeonhole myself into one or two styles of play, I'll be fine. What if I don't want to? What if I don't want to some of the FvS aspects of being a FvS to take SotR? DWS is out, of course, since it's for Ranger only. Nope, the easiest solution is to cancel VIP, pass some contact info to my guild, and uninstall. Step one of three is already completed, the other two will come later today. I've already played the 'you must be x build to be an archer and be welcome in PuGs w/out constant lectures about how you've chosen to build' game, I'm not willing to pay to go back to it, and make no mistake, this is exactly where U45 puts bow users, by design, as we can see from the opening post of this thread.

[tpbtoc]

Don't forget bears too. Wolves and Inquis Online has turned into Bears, Alchemists, and Barbs Online

True, bears got some unexpected love, but still barb is ahead on damage output, absorption and avoidance. I will count it as a bonus that finally some people will play them, because last time I checked no one was using bears anywhere.

The thing with THF paladins is that they are pigeonholed to be Dreadnoughts, since they don't fully benefit from Fury or even Crusader, that also has an outdated epic moment. They don't fully benefit from being Horc either, because the MP boost is rage based. They are not even stronger as a BF, their own iconic race , they are better as WF (weird I know). And the changes to DM are a nerf, as others have already pointed out.

[Loromir]

...For the time being we are comfortable with where Ranged has landed. It is possible that we will revisit that in the future

This is the part that concerns me. Not the fact that no more changes coming for U45...but the fact that "It is possible that we will revisit" comment. Ranged (Longbow and Shortbow in particular) will absolutely need a revisit in the future.

This statement leads me to believe they think they could be done with the ranged pass.

[SerPounce]

Great changes! Slightly disappointed that class-based trances didn't get a second look, but there's a lot to love here.

• Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Angry Arms now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance.
• Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Mad Munitions now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance.

Will these still require 2HF feat? I don't see any need to lock on 1.5 hand users and bearbarians. Particular given the hard lock out with swf.

• Bears now update their Ability Score Modifier to Damage while using a Two Handed Weapon to 2.0/2.5/3.0 when they take Natural Weapon Fighting their first, second, and third time respectively.
  

Well that's cool, I love the idea of a hard hitting bear as an alternative to the tanky S&B version.

Will bear special attacks play nice with strikethrough?

• Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack can now Doublestrike. (Other skills that are Cleave-like also now Doublestrike as a result).
• Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, KOTC's Cleave enhancements, Smite Evil, and Exalted Smite are now affected by your attack speed.
  

This is great! I do agree with other posters that you want to be careful that this doesn't send the handful of already good cleave-like special attacks into the stratosphere. Like monk WW and EK eldrich tempest.

I notice that KOTC cleaves & smites are listed specifically in the second line, but not the first. I'm guessing they're also included in the first under "other skills that are cleave-like"?

New Paladin Spell: Righteous Command: +1 Morale bonus to Melee and Ranged Power per caster level, max caster level 15.

So in the first build this was part of stalwart pack and therefore usable by clerics/fvs also, now it's paladin only. I'm mostly agnostic if this is a design choice, but it's a pretty big swing in MP for warpriests/souls based on what was apparently a flavor issue with stalwart pack. They probably could use the boost.

[palladin9479]

So in the first build this was part of stalwart pack and therefore usable by clerics/fvs also, now it's paladin only. I'm mostly agnostic if this is a design choice, but it's a pretty big swing in MP for warpriests/souls based on what was apparently a flavor issue with stalwart pack. They probably could use the boost.

I'm more concerned about the Maximum Caster Level, it seems to almost of been copied from another spell. The original modification to Death Pact was MCL 20 for +20 Melee Power, now it's MCL15 for only +15. KoTC is pretty far behind everyone else and adding another 10 Melee Power in epics could help some. It should be MCL 25 to account for the +CL's from Divine Sphere ED's.

[Vish]

Just because it's not on this list doesn't mean we aren't still working on it.

10mp in Henshin cores?

Yes.

Thx coco,
I always knew you were an unsung hero

V
????

[Hobgoblin]

so lynn/coco did range speed get all borked in this update?

from a thread i started:

I don't know if Rapid Shot works in U45, but I can confirm through repeated testing that Quick Draw and Blinding Speed *DO NOT WORK* on thrown weapons in U45. They do not work at all. They give NO BONUS to thrown weapon attack speed even if you have zero other sources of attack speed bonus for thrown weapons.

Quick Draw shows a 21% bonus to thrown attack speed in the "+" section, but it does not result in any additional thrown weapons over the course of 60 seconds (that's how I tested).

Blinding Speed (and Haste - I tested that as well) do not result in any additional thrown weapons over the course of 60 seconds.

Those feats (and Haste spell) do not give you any benefit as of U45. They don't help you if you have Whirling Wrists active. They don't help you if you are in a non-Shiradi destiny and don't have Whirling Wrists at all. This is not a problem of running into a "ranged attack speed" cap. This is just Quick Draw and Blinding Speed DO NOT WORK AT ALL on thrown attacks in U45.

Also, Ranged Alacrity does not give any benefit to thrown weapons in U45.

[J-mann]

Is it possible to make "Righteous Command" a common divine spell instead of paladin only? Warpriests and war souls need some love with the new update

The warpriest/warsoul pass was an utter failure and we told the dev's it was, repeatedly, but all feedback was ignored. The cds in the tree are way too long for way too little effect, way too many of the enhancements are ****, the cores besides the first one are ****, and it was easy to see. I saw 1 warpriest since their "buff" and it was only a warpriest because they were using the prenerf ameliorating strike. Maybe someday we will get a warpriest worth using.

[DaviMOC]

So now a full Bab Class needs lvl 7 + some enhancment investment to get TWO targets granted?
A mid bab class such as rogues,bards and monks only at 10+(that ends up being at 12)?
Also gotta remeber that 2hf enhancments are very expensive for the amount of benefits it gives, we usually are better sacrificing for key abilities along all class trees that have it.

Dont know why you guys are so worried about giving proper value to the fighting style but I feel like you guys missed by far why proper 2handed users was falling behind. So corservative about trying to boost a style that may be only second to vangard when we talk about being behind.

I'm happy you guys are listening but feels like it's still missing the mark by good amount. I'm more excited about the cleave like abilities changes, hope it covers what is lacking on the combat style itself.
Also, want to reinforce to dont forget EK cleaves on it. I know you already said "cleave" abilities but thats the kind of thing that usually is left behind and only revisted in few years =X.

[Stravix]

So now a full Bab Class needs lvl 7 + some enhancment investment to get TWO targets granted?
A mid bab class such as rogues,bards and monks only at 10+(that ends up being at 12)?
Also gotta remeber that 2hf enhancments are very expensive for the amount of benefits it gives, we usually are better sacrificing for key abilities along all class trees that have it.

Dont know why you guys are so worried about giving proper value to the fighting style but I feel like you guys missed by far why proper 2handed users was falling behind. So corservative about trying to boost a style that may be only second to vangard when we talk about being behind.

I'm happy you guys are listening but feels like it's still missing the mark by good amount. I'm more excited about the cleave like abilities changes, hope it covers what is lacking on the combat style itself.
Also, want to reinforce to dont forget EK cleaves on it. I know you already said "cleave" abilities but thats the kind of thing that usually is left behind and only revisted in few years =X.

umm, you only need thf + 1 enhancement to hit 2 targets consistently with these changes. you can do that at level 1 in a full bab class, or level 3 (due to feat timings) on every other class (assuming you have access to said enhancements)

Math:

20% base ST chance + 60% from THF feat + 20% from a single enhancement = 100% ST

[Nickodeamous]

Yes, sorry I was not more clear. I was responding to someone who stated monks would be OP with the changes outlined in the original few posts, and that they are in a good place currently with WWA.

I argue this is certainly not the case. While monks my get more DPS out of WWA than other classes, it is most definitely a DPS LOSS for a maxed out monk to use WWA. This may be true with monks with lesser amounts of pl, I did not test that. While WWA on a monk has a few specific instances that it is a DPS GAIN, overall those specific few instances do not outweigh the loss.

That said, WWA on a monk is super fun, and if you aren't worried about maxing out DPS it's a good investment because it is fun. Too bad we don't have more abilities that are slightly behind but close enough that people take them because...fun.

Sorry for the scare

Haha, i was like, what the heck! I startes taking WWA maybe a year ago, and i am fir the most part a maxed out monk. The thing i noticed, but disnt really think about was the delay after i hit the attack. Its like you have to wait 3 seconds before you attack again normally. I can see that this is not optimal, especially with the amount of fears you have to take to get it. I mean, combat expertise is a waste once i pick up precision. Glad to see this is not a need and may help with the speed issue.

Thanks!
Nico

[DaviMOC]

umm, you only need thf + 1 enhancement to hit 2 targets consistently with these changes. you can do that at level 1 in a full bab class, or level 3 (due to feat timings) on every other class (assuming you have access to said enhancements)

Math:

20% base ST chance + 60% from THF feat + 20% from a single enhancement = 100% ST

Missed the starting 20%. But still mad about all this few targets thing. Hope I'm wrong when it comes to live, but thats feels poor . 4 targets its still too few of a gain into a full investment of feats, enhancments and EDs. All my grip is more about the ST mechanic itself, too timid with questionable benefits that will more than before strugle in relevance compared to cleave atacks . That considering the combat style itself. Lets not forget that Sorcs and other casters exists and they are abundant that will render useless this auto atack AoE melees.

Anyway thanks for clarification =)

[Stravix]

Missed the starting 20%. But still mad about all this few targets thing. Hope I'm wrong when it comes to live, but thats feels poor . 4 targets its still too few of a gain into a full investment of feats, enhancments and EDs. All my grip is more about the ST mechanic itself, too timid with questionable benefits that will more than before strugle in relevance compared to cleave atacks . That considering the combat style itself. Lets not forget that Sorcs and other casters exists and they are abundant that will render useless this auto atack AoE melees.

Anyway thanks for clarification =)

NP on the clarification. I think ST as a mechanic is pretty good looking, now that the single target abilities work with it. Stunning blow, trip, and the new improved sunder allow THF build to not only damage packs, but also CC/debuff them. I think that might be the route that would be best for TFH. Decent AoE DPS (nothing will compare to sorc in that department) while also providing CC and fort reduction to entire packs for cleanup. Heck, with just a trip, sunder into cracking attack, barbs can now cc most of a pack while reducing their fortification by 45%. I think that playstyle will be fun to play and while it won't be a dps king, should be a welcome addition to most groups.

[Ballrus]

Also, is possible to add some ST bonuses on kensai cores? It's wierd that Rogues and Artificers have it and the weapon master dont have any.

And allow One Cut stack with Deadly Weapons (again)?

Maybe 10 ST on each of Kensei cores (4, 5 and 6) to round up for 200 ST with base 20 plus all feats.

[Captain_Wizbang]

• 
  
  
• Misc
  
  • Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack can now Doublestrike. (Other skills that are Cleave-like also now Doublestrike as a result).
  • Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, KOTC's Cleave enhancements, Smite Evil, and Exalted Smite are now affected by your attack speed.
  • Ranger: Tempest: Dance of Death now applies it's strike through buff even if the attack does not make contact with an enemy.
  • Leap of Faith from Exalted Angel no longer holds you in place after activation.
  • Items with new Ghostbane effects now deal their bane damage to all Undead, not just Incorporeal monsters
  • The Cores of Sacred Defender now properly increase your Maximum HP by 1 point per AP spent

Outstanding, Thank you.

My only* request is to remove the min 13 Int for Whirlwind pre-req.



* Disclaimer, I'm still wishing for a set of gloves w/ alacrity for long & short bow users.

[DaviMOC]

NP on the clarification. I think ST as a mechanic is pretty good looking, now that the single target abilities work with it. Stunning blow, trip, and the new improved sunder allow THF build to not only damage packs, but also CC/debuff them. I think that might be the route that would be best for TFH. Decent AoE DPS (nothing will compare to sorc in that department) while also providing CC and fort reduction to entire packs for cleanup. Heck, with just a trip, sunder into cracking attack, barbs can now cc most of a pack while reducing their fortification by 45%. I think that playstyle will be fun to play and while it won't be a dps king, should be a welcome addition to most groups.

Good points made indeed. May I have to change my mindset a bit on this matter. Hope all the tactical feats are viable out of a fighter/monk life. As melees we always have to worry a bit more about defenses , and all this will only work if you invest beyond the 2hf feat line, some other feats, enhancments and gear to land all that tactical sutff which are starving already ignoring the live GBs enhancments .

[xTethx]

Missed the starting 20%. But still mad about all this few targets thing. Hope I'm wrong when it comes to live, but thats feels poor . 4 targets its still too few of a gain into a full investment of feats, enhancments and EDs. All my grip is more about the ST mechanic itself, too timid with questionable benefits that will more than before strugle in relevance compared to cleave atacks . That considering the combat style itself. Lets not forget that Sorcs and other casters exists and they are abundant that will render useless this auto atack AoE melees.

Anyway thanks for clarification =)

Please tell me you are joking. Hitting 4 targets at once with doublestrike and thf base damage plus weapon procs/tactical attacks. That is literally so broken its insane. This buff is so utterly insane a buff for thf aoe its ridiculous.