Changes Based on Preview 2 Feedback

[Cocomajobo]

Hey, all!

We wanted to take some time to let you know the changes that have been made to U45 systems based on the feedback provided after Preview 2. We don't have a third preview of U45 on our schedule but felt that it was important to make available updated information this week now that we've had time to parse through the copious feedback. The list below contains design changes in areas that your feedback has swayed us to make. The lists below do not contain bug fixes (which there are already quite a few of).

Let us know what you think after perusing the below lists!

(Note: You will likely notice that these lists do not contain any further Ranged Style changes despite the large amount of feedback about the Archer's Focus/Improved Precise Shot dynamic that was available in preview 2. For the time being we are comfortable with where Ranged has landed. It is possible that we will revisit that in the future but we'd like to see how players adjust to the new dynamic before considering pulling back on the Archer's Focus movement restriction in the ways suggested in the Ranged thread.)

[Cocomajobo]

It was clear that we had undershot the THF overhaul in a couple of areas.

• We undershot (and backloaded) the Strikethrough values so that it wasn't fun to hit 1 maybe 2 enemies until high level where you would then hit 2 maybe 3 enemies.
• The ripple effect of losing Glancing Blows was felt heavily for Hand and a Half wielders and Bears.

In order to address those issues we have implemented the following changes internally. These are designed to both boost the total Strikethrough that players will end up with as well as frontload it so that it starts feeling good at lower levels. In addition, we have implemented some changes to make up for the loss of Glancing Blows to both Hand and a Half Wielders as well as Bears.

Changes from Preview 2

• Characters no longer require the feat "Two Handed Fighting" in order to be able to Strikethrough while moving.
• As the moving restriction on Strikethrough has been removed, the Dwarf skill we previewed that removed that restriction has been removed as well.
• The cap on Strikethrough targets is now 5 (at 400%).
• The THF feat now grants 60% Strikethrough.
• The ITHF feat now grants 30% Strikethrough.
• The GTHF feat now grants 30% Strikethrough.
• The PTHF feat now grants 30% Strikethrough.
• The PTHF feat now functions properly if you don't have the full 3-feat THF line.
• Bonuses to Strikethrough from the 4-feat THF line now properly stack (previously, only the highest-level version of the Feat line you had applied its Strikethrough bonus).
• Enhancements
  
  • Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Angry Arms now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance.
  • Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Mad Munitions now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance.
  • Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Focus Wide's on-Vorpal buff now grants 50% Strikethrough Chance in place of its previous Glancing Blow component.
  • Rogue: Thief Acrobat: Rogue Improved Glancing Blows has been renamed to "Improved Second Strikes", and now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance
  • Rogue: Thief Acrobat: Follow-Through's Tumble buff now grants +50% Strikethrough Chance (replacing its previous ability to hit additional targets)
  • Paladin: Knight of the Chalice: Replaces "Knight's Command" with "Improved Second Strikes" which grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance
  • Artificer: Battle Engineer: Each Tier of Hand and a Half Training now grants 5% Strikethrough Chance (replacing the previous Glancing Blow component).
  • All instances of Great Weapon Aptitude are now +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance
• Hand and a Half Weapons
  
  • Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe now apply 1.1x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage. This stacks with the bonuses from Improved and Greater Single Weapon Fighting.
  • Improved Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.35x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage
  • Greater Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.6x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage
• Wild Shape
  
  • The 1st bear attack in the chain was not benefiting from ability mulitplers correctly such as the 1.5 bonus for using a 2 handed weapon but now is.
  • Bears now gain +60/30/30% Strikethrough when they take Natural Weapon Fighting their first, second, and third time respectively.
  • Bears now update their Ability Score Modifier to Damage while using a Two Handed Weapon to 2.0/2.5/3.0 when they take Natural Weapon Fighting their first, second, and third time respectively.
  • Wolves and Bears no longer increase their Ability Score Modifier to Damage while using a Two Handed Weapon when they take the 3-feat THF line (this only really happened internally/on Lamannia not Live).

[Cocomajobo]

There are a variety of smaller areas that preview 2 let us know needed adjustments. None of the following areas required as large of a rework as the Two Handed Fighting tweaks above so we've bunched them all together here. Below are changes designed to address player feedback that Paladin Knight of the Chalice was not strong enough and that Alchemist Vile Chemist was too strong. Let us know what you think!

(Note: a couple of the items on this list weren't implemented based on player feedback but I included them anyways just to let you know that they existed instead of just waiting for release notes)

• Paladin
  
  • New Paladin Spell: Righteous Command: +1 Morale bonus to Melee and Ranged Power per caster level, max caster level 15.
  • Tier 1 Extra Smites is gaining a third rank, for a total of 6 extra Smites
  • Tier 1 Knight's Command is replaced with Improved Second Strikes: +5/10/20% Strikethrough
  • Tier 2 Rally is replaced with Critical Mastery (crit damage/confirmation), +1/2/3
• Alchemist
  
  • Venom's Grip, the Vile Chemist Core Capstone, no longer lists +2 Poisoned Coating dice it wasn't granting.
  • Vile Chemist's Envenom the Heart is now Venom Affinity II: +3/6/10 Poison Spell Power. (It no longer grants Poison Vulnerability).
  • Vile Chemist's Toxic Augmentation has been removed, and replaced with Envenom the Heart: "Enemies hit by your melee or ranged strikes have a chance to be Silenced, Quelled, or have their attack speed reduced by 20% for 12 seconds with no save. (This does work on Bosses, but at a lower proc rate)."
  • Vile Chemist's Poisoned Strike (Rank 3 Only), Poisoned Shot (Rank 3 Only), Wave of Poison (all ranks) and Greater Wave of Poison (all ranks) now cause Poison-immune enemies to become vulnerable to Poison for 12 seconds.
  • Removed text referring to +1[w] from Vile Chemist Core 3 (Hidden Blades).
  • Apothecary's Nightshade now has a projectile speed similar to other bottle spells
• Misc
  
  • Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack can now Doublestrike. (Other skills that are Cleave-like also now Doublestrike as a result).
  • Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, KOTC's Cleave enhancements, Smite Evil, and Exalted Smite are now affected by your attack speed.
  • Ranger: Tempest: Dance of Death now applies it's strike through buff even if the attack does not make contact with an enemy.
  • Leap of Faith from Exalted Angel no longer holds you in place after activation.
  • Items with new Ghostbane effects now deal their bane damage to all Undead, not just Incorporeal monsters
  • The Cores of Sacred Defender now properly increase your Maximum HP by 1 point per AP spent

[Sam-u-r-eye]

nice

[HungarianRhapsody]

Did you fix the Vile Chemist "Chemical Weapons" increased thrown weapon attack speed to work since it was not functioning at all in both the first and second Lamannia preview?

Were any of the other thrown weapon attack speed bugs looked at for the third set of changes?

[Yamani]

[*][*]Removed text referring to +1[w] from Vile Chemist Core 3 (Hidden Blades).[/LIST]

So what does this core do then?

Orchidium +5 PRR, and 3% doublestrike/doubleshot?

[Rauven]

• Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack can now Doublestrike. (Other skills that are Cleave-like also now Doublestrike as a result).

Looking for clarification. Does that include rogue thief-acrobat Sweeping Strikes, as well?

Side note. Currently nothing boosts Sweeping Strikes DC. Not even the trip attack enhancements in the TA tree. Can that be changed? It would be nice if everything that boosted trip DC's also worked on Sweeping Strikes, but at the very least the trip attack enhancements (Trip Focus) in the TA tree, combat mastery, and the bonus to tactical feats in Scion of the Astral Plane should all apply.

Otherwise, these changes look good.

[GordolGreydon]

So what does this core do then?

Orchidium +5 PRR, and 3% doublestrike/doubleshot?

Yeah if you don't mind telling us what you changed core 3 to that would be helpful.

[Cocomajobo]

Did you fix the Vile Chemist "Chemical Weapons" increased thrown weapon attack speed to work since it was not functioning at all in both the first and second Lamannia preview?

Were any of the other thrown weapon attack speed bugs looked at for the third set of changes?

I have just verified again internally and Chemical Weapons is increasing Simple Thrown Weapon attack speed.

[DagazUlf]

Seems a little odd to me that a Kensai might not be able to take advantage of some Strikethrough. Surely skill with a weapon plays just as much part as raw berserker force in hitting multiple targets with a strike?

(Also, there's some abilities in that tree that could be made more useful/alluring.)

[Cocomajobo]

So what does this core do then?

Orchidium +5 PRR, and 3% doublestrike/doubleshot?

Yes.

[palladin9479]

New Paladin Spell: Righteous Command: +1 Morale bonus to Melee and Ranged Power per caster level, max caster level 15.

Can you please raise the maximum caster level for this to 25 to accommodate some form of epic power growth, especially since you guys are heavily nerfing KoTC this update. The Divine Might nerf knee caps Paladin power growth in late epics / legendary so some form of alternate power growth is required other wise it's in a worse place then it started.

THF was a little lowish but still in a better place then it started. 2.7 targets for anyone not a Barbarian isn't bad, isn't that good either though. Are the values on filigree being updated as it's currently just +5%? Will there be other sources of +StrikeThrough available for class's like Fighter, War Domain Cleric or so forth?

[Mindos]

• Misc
  
  • Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack can now Doublestrike. (Other skills that are Cleave-like also now Doublestrike as a result).
  • Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, KOTC's Cleave enhancements, Smite Evil, and Exalted Smite are now affected by your attack speed.

So, just tell me straight up: Is Whirlwind attack worth taking now? Cause before, it was only worth taking on a monk, because it hit everything 3 or 4 times when used on a monk. On any other build it did a slow spin move and did one hit only.

So can a pure fighter take it and have it do for the fighter what it does for monk then?
And also, opposite question, does this mean that a monk using Whirlwind attack will be an absolute god with the above changes stacking to what Whirlwind Attack ALREADY does on live for a monk?

[Kielbasa]

Will there be any filigrees or filigree sets that grant strikethrough?

The beasts mantle, the blood feast, and one against the many are all good places for this. If anyone else has a good idea where some should go speak up before this goes live.

Ranger Tempest: Can you guys just leave dance of death alone? Literally no one asked for it to be changed and there are less melee rangers playing than there used to be this update will not help that in any way.

Whirlwind attack? How is the update changing its functionality? It multi hits currently with handwraps on live. Will this change nerf that in any way? Will the update speed up the animation for non handwrap users? If the changes you're making break the current functionality for hand wrap users please don't do it. Only update it when you have it working as well for non wrap users as does for monks on live.

Can we get a youtube video of how the updated cleaves will work so maybe we can catch any problems with them?

So the highest possible strikethrough is 375% on a half-orc barbarian frenzied bezerker in fury of the wild during unbridled fury?

[palladin9479]

Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack can now Doublestrike. (Other skills that are Cleave-like also now Doublestrike as a result).
Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, KOTC's Cleave enhancements, Smite Evil, and Exalted Smite are now affected by your attack speed.

Is Momentum Swing also effected by these? Momentum Swing and Lay Waste are the super cleaves yet their animation is slow and they can't doublestrike making them questionable as DPS options.

[xTethx]

Will there be any filigrees or filigree sets that grant strikethrough?

The beasts mantle, the blood feast, and one against the many are all good places for this. If anyone else has a good idea where some should go speak up before this goes live.

Ranger Tempest: Can you guys just leave dance of death alone? Literally no one asked for it to be changed and there are less melee rangers playing than there used to be this update will not help that in any way.

Whirlwind attack? How is the update changing its functionality? It multi hits currently with handwraps on live. Will this change nerf that in any way? Will the update speed up the animation for non handwrap users? If the changes you're making break the current functionality for hand wrap users please don't do it. Only update it when you have it working as well for non wrap users as does for monks on live.

Can we get a youtube video of how the updated cleaves will work so maybe we can catch any problems with them?

So the highest possible strikethrough is 375% on a half-orc barbarian frenzied bezerker in fury of the wild during unbridled fury?

No, currently highest would be a half orc/wf dire bear with frenzy tree using filigree set. 20% base, 20% dire bear, 60% nat fighting, 30% nat fighting, 30% nat fighting, 30% pthf, 20% frenzy tier 2, 20% frenzy tier 3, 50% frenzy tier 5, 20% half orc, 100% fury, 5% fury tier 2, 5% fury tier 3, 5% filigree = 415%

[HastyPudding]

A dozen people in the Apothecary thread telling you that things are really bland and lack a unique flavor.....and the only thing you guys change is the projectile speed of an ability that multiple people weren't enthusiastic about to begin with? Seriously? Jeez, sorry you didn't get enough feedback with so many people worrying about how they can achieve maximum dps with vile chemist.....remind me not to bother commenting on anything if it's just going to be ignored.

[Lynnabel]

A dozen people in the Apothecary thread telling you that things are really bland and lack a unique flavor.....and the only thing you guys change is the projectile speed of an ability that multiple people weren't enthusiastic about to begin with? Seriously? Jeez, sorry you didn't get enough feedback with so many people worrying about how they can achieve maximum dps with vile chemist.....remind me not to bother commenting on anything if it's just going to be ignored.

Just because it's not on this list doesn't mean we aren't still working on it.

[Ovrad]

Any chance Whirlwind attack's requirements can be looked at; so it doesn't require 8 feats, a DNA sample, a legitimate witness, and the soul of our first born child?

[Graskitch]

[/LIST][*]Misc

• Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack can now Doublestrike. (Other skills that are Cleave-like also now Doublestrike as a result).
• Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, KOTC's Cleave enhancements, Smite Evil, and Exalted Smite are now affected by your attack speed.

[/LIST]

hey coco - I am a bit confused though; Steelstar had reported that if you add Strikethrough to cleaves and whirlwind that it would function as a nerf by reducing the maximum # of targets from 25 to the strikethrough cap (which is now 5 according to your post).

Strikethrough is a modification to the maximum number of targets your attacks hit; adding it to Cleaves would reduce their maximum number of targets from 25 to the Strikethrough cap, which was 3 on the last Lamannia. We aren't planning to nerf Cleaves (quite the opposite - stay tuned), so we won't be adding Strikethrough to any attacks that already hit multiple targets.

with this change, will cleaves still hit up to 25 targets in the sweeping arc, but ALSO grant full strikethrough damage up to 5 targets? or will cleave only actually now hit up to 5 targets, depending on your strikethrough value?


EDIT: sorry - yeah I see now; even though I was quoting cocomajobo, I was confusing strikethrough with doublestrike. I see now that it is doublestrike (not strikethrough) that is being added to cleaves.