Changes Based on Preview 2 Feedback

[Mindos]

The Zombie Pale Master penalty to attack speed also apply to Cleaves speed?

Shhhhh.

[Xgya]

The Zombie Pale Master penalty to attack speed also apply to Cleaves speed?

Only the cleave feats and the ones named in the patch are affected by speed bonuses, while everything that's named a Melee Cleave gets doublestrike.

[Cetus]

Bear form doesn't have an inherent DPS benefit the way wolf does, so even with the same STR benefit as standard 2HF I don't see them running away with DPS the way multiclass wolf builds did. Bear will be decent, bearbarian will be good, but pure barb will be substantially better DPS than either.

The bear attack animation is something to consider...

[darknoobslayer]

Kudos for outright neutering tempest rangers as any kind of effective melee build going forward...guess I should've seen this coming since they've been getting nerfed somehow on the last few updates. It's like DDO devs don't call anything balanced unless their heavily opinionated thumb is on the scale.

The fact you guys don't even bother listening to the vast majority of players who've been telling you that these changes are outright nerfs makes me look forward to Baldurs Gate 3...cuz devs here are ensuring DDO's days are numbered.

Seriously, where's the p-o-o-p emoji when I need it?!

Tempest can't have the best of both worlds. They will still be an effective melee after the update with strong single target and good aoe damage. With the tight range on dod where you ever really hitting 4 mobs 100% of the time? Its usually 3 from what I've heard. Between the target decrease and removing the on hit for the buff the two should balance each other out.

[Bjond]

Wanted to reply to folks that liked my idea to permit (some of) an existing item in OH slot with a 2H weapon -- particularly for set bonus counts

this is a really neat idea. maybe a third ring?

Or a buckler?

Kinda nice peeps liked it. I thought about it more. IMHO, a shield would actually make the most sense, but not as an effective tool of war -- more as gear being transported; ie. the handle broke off on my shield, so I'm toting it to the blacksmith. Glad I thought to bring this greatsword along in case of pesky orcs.

Noooo, you shouldn't get full stats. IMHO, set bonus count and augment should work. Blocking should (of course) NOT work and neither should the AC. I'd likely let all the rest take effect, but I only made a cursory review of extra stats on shields, which seem to be less impressive than other slots. Supporting art showing the shield on back would be great and would provide visual feedback that you are indeed in 2H-mode.

[Cetus]

Are we not incorporating feedback on THF anymore? Seems like nobody really gives a **** about the fact that Kensei fighters have been indirectly trashed this entire revamp. Pally's barbs and bears have climbed nicely in power in the meantime...

[Xgya]

Noooo, you shouldn't get full stats. IMHO, set bonus count and augment should work. Blocking should (of course) NOT work and neither should the AC. I'd likely let all the rest take effect, but I only made a cursory review of extra stats on shields, which seem to be less impressive than other slots. Supporting art showing the shield on back would be great and would provide visual feedback that you are indeed in 2H-mode.

I'd be okay with this.
PnP allowed two-handed weapon users to wield a bucker with a tiny penalty, which made the first suggestion make a lot of sense too.

If nothing else, we've found out there is possible tech that makes equipping an item block out another slot.
While the Platinum Knuckles were no that great to look at, maybe we could see other items (your idea would make this a cloak) that locked out the shield slot?

A cloak handing out more Strikethrough, more damage while wielding a two-handed weapon, Great Weapon Alacrity (melee alacrity, but only for two-handers)...

Platinum Knuckles gave out 6 effects for losing out an item slot, so this item should do something similar.

In the end though, you'd have to remember that this patch came with a severe nerf to ranged toons at large, so you might see a lot of us complaining that we weren't getting anything in that item slot either, that tying a shield to your back isn't something archers can't do and whatnot.
I personally think mechanics were doing just fine without that item slot, but I'm also in the group that thinks ranged nerfs overall were pretty justified despite having played nothing BUT ranged at every point I could except for a few flavor builds (I couldn't justify doing all my half-orc lives without at least going melee once, and now that I'm doing PDKs, my last life's a swashy freeze bard)

[Komradkillingmachine]

Are we not incorporating feedback on THF anymore? Seems like nobody really gives a **** about the fact that Kensei fighters have been indirectly trashed this entire revamp. Pally's barbs and bears have climbed nicely in power in the meantime...

I'd play Kensei over Barb any day just not to deal with the stupid "drop rage - recast short term buffs a.k.a displacement - rage again" nonsense.

Also, U SUS

[Ahwaric]

I'd be okay with this.
PnP allowed two-handed weapon users to wield a bucker with a tiny penalty, which made the first suggestion make a lot of sense too.

Exactly. Though in real life buckler was actually gripped with one hand, but small shields could be attached to forearm and used as hand protection in two-handed combat. More while using halberds (or greataxes) than two-handed swords, but still.
Halberds... Now that is the weapon I miss in DDO, or polearms in general. Not even spears are in, one of the most common weapons in history.
Could we at least get some great axes that look like halberds, certainly make more sense than two-bladed ones?

Anyway, I digress. Still, buckler & two-hander makes more sense than using two crossbows and a runearm at the same time (which is what inquisitive artificers do...).
Or using two weapons at once TBH. It was always either S&B or THF in reality.

And allowing buckler with 2-hander would probably be possible from technical side, seeing as runeram can be used with 2-handed xbow. Though it is DDO, so you never know

[Havocthedemon]

Exactly. Though in real life buckler was actually gripped with one hand, but small shields could be attached to forearm and used as hand protection in two-handed combat. More while using halberds (or greataxes) than two-handed swords, but still.
Halberds... Now that is the weapon I miss in DDO, or polearms in general. Not even spears are in, one of the most common weapons in history.
Could we at least get some great axes that look like halberds, certainly make more sense than two-bladed ones?

Anyway, I digress. Still, buckler & two-hander makes more sense than using two crossbows and a runearm at the same time (which is what inquisitive artificers do...).
Or using two weapons at once TBH. It was always either S&B or THF in reality.

And allowing buckler with 2-hander would probably be possible from technical side, seeing as runeram can be used with 2-handed xbow. Though it is DDO, so you never know

I just have to say, I freaking love the idea of a thf toon having a Buckler slot for his forearm. I actually always used one in PnP and it was always great. I was never a SnB person in any form but bucklers were my thing. And yes, Sirteh is the closest thing we have to a spear, at least it looks cool in my bank.

[Ashlayna]

Wanted to reply to folks that liked my idea to permit (some of) an existing item in OH slot with a 2H weapon -- particularly for set bonus counts



Kinda nice peeps liked it. I thought about it more. IMHO, a shield would actually make the most sense, but not as an effective tool of war -- more as gear being transported; ie. the handle broke off on my shield, so I'm toting it to the blacksmith. Glad I thought to bring this greatsword along in case of pesky orcs.

Noooo, you shouldn't get full stats. IMHO, set bonus count and augment should work. Blocking should (of course) NOT work and neither should the AC. I'd likely let all the rest take effect, but I only made a cursory review of extra stats on shields, which seem to be less impressive than other slots. Supporting art showing the shield on back would be great and would provide visual feedback that you are indeed in 2H-mode.

Aion went about this in another manner, they allowed the merging of two handed weapons, so long as they were the same type. It would take a lot of juggling to get the "balance" right here, but the technology already exists, to some extent, with the Mirror of Glammering.

[Cetus]

I'd play Kensei over Barb any day just not to deal with the stupid "drop rage - recast short term buffs a.k.a displacement - rage again" nonsense.

Also, U SUS

lol

None of this changes the fact that kensei has been ****ed on this entire revamp. Even pally received a strike through bonus. Kensei got squat.

[Bloodskittle]

Are we not incorporating feedback on THF anymore? Seems like nobody really gives a **** about the fact that Kensei fighters have been indirectly trashed this entire revamp. Pally's barbs and bears have climbed nicely in power in the meantime...

This is a serious problem,
I'd say to address it is fairly easy too, you just put Strikethrough into the weapon damage enhancements and lock it to use with the appropriate weapons.

[capsela]

Would you please make sure that the Cleave Special Attacks(Eldrich Strike and Eldrich Tempest) from Eldrich Knight from Sorcerer and Wizard tree also work with the changes you have listed regarding cleaves? It would be great if the Wiz/Sorc Eldrich Knight would get some kind of Strikethrough bonus also.

I would also ask you to still consider giving the Sword and Board Paladin the Holy Shield back so that it would work with shields again.

It looks like the THF players are getting a huge buff... and the Barbarian seems to benefit even more than Paladin.

Cheers to you guys, we know you're working hard to make everything right.

Another vote for more EK love, that tree serves 2 classes. EK also lacks a spring attack which all melees deserve now.

[Reesi]

Speaking of EK, a great easy buff would be to change that Eldritch Accuracy to include hit AND damage. The Wiz has harpers to solve their problem (and like what 4-5 bonus feats to deal with their metas), the sorcerers get no bonus feats and have little for options. Think about the FvS, just make it so as long as your sorcerer/wiz level is higher than anything else, you get your primary stat to hit and damage. Do similar with Paladin. Heck, do it with every class.

I don't really understand the Kensei problem, and by that I believe that that it exists but I am ignorant as to where the problem lies. There doesn't seem to be a lot of you to complain, so if someone hasn't already, I suggest you spell it out so the developers can address it. There is a lot going on and people are rightfully piling on over popular classes or classes which people now see more potential for (EK). Those that got attention were able to explain what they lost, and how to get it back - perhaps with a reasonable little buff if it needed it in the first place.

[bloodnose13]

will you be doing something about defender?
because its the worst designed tree in the game currently, not only its crazy costly in AP for anyone building actual tank, its much cheaper and more useful for someone who just wants some extra defense for kotc or vanguard. and since its costly not much ap is left to get everything it is missing from other trees when focusing on it.

if you really want tanks to not be able to fight then at least add mario combat style, at least it will be possible to kill something by jumping on its head.

[Ballrus]

This is a serious problem,
I'd say to address it is fairly easy too, you just put Strikethrough into the weapon damage enhancements and lock it to use with the appropriate weapons.

Better at the cores.

Maybe 10 ST on each of Kensei cores (4, 5 and 6) to round up for 200 ST with base 20 plus all feats.

[GramercyRiff]

I got a stupid question.

Why do people call Bear Barbarians Bearbarians? It definitely sounds better if you say Barbearian. You don't really need to answer this. I'll forget I asked it and I also don't really care.

Good points about Kensei people have brought up. Kensei never crossed my mind because I can't really solo one unless I splash other stuff or play Aasimar. I thought KotC wasn't doing enough, but Kensei does seem borked.

I also still very much dislike that EK can't get a solid enough BaB to take the style feats and IC and other BaB prereq feats. It also really sucks how resistance works in this game. Finally...LOLOL Warpriest why couldn't this have been good?

[AstorPotamus]

With the tight range on dod where you ever really hitting 4 mobs 100% of the time? Its usually 3 from what I've heard. Between the target decrease and removing the on hit for the buff the two should balance each other out.

It's a straight up nerf! I hit 4 targets consistently cuz I know how to plant myself within mobs to maximize that. Forget the fact I only miss on 1s...oh, and crit on 14 & higher. Tempests should be getting 300% percent strikethrough if for nothing other than a poor attempt at making up for the fact that barbs now get up to 400% strikethrough.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Why do people call Bear Barbarians Bearbarians? It definitely sounds better if you say Barbearian. You don't really need to answer this. I'll forget I asked it and I also don't really care.

Barbarian and Barbearian are pronounced the same as each other, so if you want to differentiate the two, you need to use Bearbarian.