Changes Based on Preview 2 Feedback

[Kinerd]

It is very likely that it can now Doublestrike. What we changed on a systematic level there impacted a number of skills that use the specific detects the mentioned Feats use. I'd have to go check to be certain, and I am not in the office.

The attack speed is a specific thing added to the listed Feats & Enhancements only. We can add it to specific skills, and may add it to more on a case-by-case basis in the future.

oof

thanks for the info!

[Kinerd]

Suggestion: permit something to be worn in the off-hand slot to help balance out the difficulty THF builds have activating set bonuses compared to non-THF builds. IMHO, permitting bracers to be worn in the OH slot with a 2H weapon might make more sense than creating a new item type. I'm unsure if permitting all stats and effects from such an item would be too much or not (there are arguments for both sides), but certainly permitting augment slot and set count to take effect would be more balanced than the current state.

this is a really neat idea. maybe a third ring?

[Monkey_Archer]

Please tell me you are joking. Hitting 4 targets at once with doublestrike and thf base damage plus weapon procs/tactical attacks. That is literally so broken its insane. This buff is so utterly insane a buff for thf aoe its ridiculous.

I've been refraining from making a similar statement, (mostly because I haven't done enough testing, only napkin math) but my gut says barbarians are going the be new inquisitive. I still think the attribute scaling should be dropped back down to 2x and 1.5x weapon effects scaling added instead, but with no more previews at this point, I'll just wait to see how this works out on live. Hopefully, if there are major over-tuning issues it wont take as long as it did to address inquisitive.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Please tell me you are joking. Hitting 4 targets at once with doublestrike and thf base damage plus weapon procs/tactical attacks. That is literally so broken its insane. This buff is so utterly insane a buff for thf aoe its ridiculous.

It's a nice boost, but it's also a needed boost.

It's going to be REALLY hard to convince me that Melee are going to be "too strong" when they need to wade into the middle of a swarm of enemies that can 1 or 2 shot kill most of us in order to get that big AOE damage. Yes, this is a really significant improvement, but that's a good thing. Melee have been disappointing for a while now and it's nice to see them get a benefit in exactly the place where most of DDO happens - killing swarms of trash.

[Ballrus]

this is a really neat idea. maybe a third ring?

Or a buckler?

[xTethx]

It's a nice boost, but it's also a needed boost.

It's going to be REALLY hard to convince me that Melee are going to be "too strong" when they need to wade into the middle of a swarm of enemies that can 1 or 2 shot kill most of us in order to get that big AOE damage. Yes, this is a really significant improvement, but that's a good thing. Melee have been disappointing for a while now and it's nice to see them get a benefit in exactly the place where most of DDO happens - killing swarms of trash.

Melee have not been disappointing for forever. Its been thf that was just a bit behind twf. It was inquis coming along and giving the exact same dps with much less investment. But a properly built and played melee has almost always been top dog for dps in r10 minus inquis. Now this buff just widens that gap even more.

[DaviMOC]

Please tell me you are joking. Hitting 4 targets at once with doublestrike and thf base damage plus weapon procs/tactical attacks. That is literally so broken its insane. This buff is so utterly insane a buff for thf aoe its ridiculous.

Hope you're right friend. Waiting for it but taking from what you said about melee in r10, that isnt enought of a boost =). Also keep in mind that what you said is a very niche scenario, personally i never played in any build in r10 that frequent to make such huge statement. From elite to r7 all i see is casters and ranged doing everything: Instant, CC, healing, AoE as close range is usually a death sentence. Also AoE in Reaper, i dont know how it works out of casters nuking it, no tank or CC can hold any mob group long enough for AoE autoatack to start pulling its weight. Your single target is also nerfed unless the 3x bonus is enough to outpeform GBs that use to happen on single target too.

[DRoark]

.... we are comfortable with where Ranged has landed.

I wonder where is it.... In the middle of nowhere?

Oh, no... we know EXACTLY where it is, it's sandwiched between "subpar" and "they didn't properly test non-INQ ranged".
If you think they actually tested a decade-old feat change in two weeks, I invite you to play poker. We'll use my cards.

There's a growing sub strike until this unneeded IPS nerf is restored. Ranged of the World Unite.

[Stravix]

Hope you're right friend. Waiting for it but taking from what you said about melee in r10, that isnt enought of a boost =). Also keep in mind that what you said is a very niche scenario, personally i never played in any build in r10 that frequent to make such huge statement. From elite to r7 all i see is casters and ranged doing everything: Instant, CC, healing, AoE as close range is usually a death sentence. Also AoE in Reaper, i dont know how it works out of casters nuking it, no tank or CC can hold any mob group long enough for AoE autoatack to start pulling its weight. Your single target is also nerfed unless the 3x bonus is enough to outpeform GBs that use to happen on single target too.

The extra attribute damage should make up for the lack of GB as:

1) GB only happened 50%-75% of the time anyway

2) GB did not benefit from the majority of damage multiplying effects, only melee power and base damage. (Doublestrike and crit now work, which is a major damage multiplier)

[Gemini-Dragon357]

It was clear that we had undershot the THF overhaul in a couple of areas.

• Characters no longer require the feat "Two Handed Fighting" in order to be able to Strikethrough while moving.
• As the moving restriction on Strikethrough has been removed, the Dwarf skill we previewed that removed that restriction has been removed as well.
• The cap on Strikethrough targets is now 5 (at 400%).
• The THF feat now grants 60% Strikethrough.
• The ITHF feat now grants 30% Strikethrough.
• The GTHF feat now grants 30% Strikethrough.
• The PTHF feat now grants 30% Strikethrough.
• The PTHF feat now functions properly if you don't have the full 3-feat THF line.
• Bonuses to Strikethrough from the 4-feat THF line now properly stack (previously, only the highest-level version of the Feat line you had applied its Strikethrough bonus).
• Enhancements
  
  • Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Angry Arms now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance.
  • Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Mad Munitions now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance.
  • Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Focus Wide's on-Vorpal buff now grants 50% Strikethrough Chance in place of its previous Glancing Blow component.
  • Rogue: Thief Acrobat: Rogue Improved Glancing Blows has been renamed to "Improved Second Strikes", and now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance
  • Rogue: Thief Acrobat: Follow-Through's Tumble buff now grants +50% Strikethrough Chance (replacing its previous ability to hit additional targets)
  • Paladin: Knight of the Chalice: Replaces "Knight's Command" with "Improved Second Strikes" which grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance
  • Artificer: Battle Engineer: Each Tier of Hand and a Half Training now grants 5% Strikethrough Chance (replacing the previous Glancing Blow component).
  • All instances of Great Weapon Aptitude are now +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance
• Hand and a Half Weapons
  
  • Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe now apply 1.1x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage. This stacks with the bonuses from Improved and Greater Single Weapon Fighting.
  • Improved Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.35x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage
  • Greater Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.6x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage
• Wild Shape
  
  • The 1st bear attack in the chain was not benefiting from ability mulitplers correctly such as the 1.5 bonus for using a 2 handed weapon but now is.
  • Bears now gain +60/30/30% Strikethrough when they take Natural Weapon Fighting their first, second, and third time respectively.
  • Bears now update their Ability Score Modifier to Damage while using a Two Handed Weapon to 2.0/2.5/3.0 when they take Natural Weapon Fighting their first, second, and third time respectively.
  • Wolves and Bears no longer increase their Ability Score Modifier to Damage while using a Two Handed Weapon when they take the 3-feat THF line (this only really happened internally/on Lamannia not Live).

Did you forget to list the Cleric Destruction Domain or was it not increased? In the last preview it was 5% (and it's the level 9 domain bonus.) 5% is a paltry sum considering these changes and the fact it's a level 9 bonus. Can it be increased to 30%, or even 20%, to keep it inline with the other changes? It requires 9 cleric levels, so it's not like anyone is going to multiclass to acquire it.

Also, are the Fury of the Wild Destiny Enhancements: Malicious Weapons and Wild Weapons still +1/3/5% Strikethrough Chance?

[Chacka_DDO]

Overall very nice changes in U45 but just two things I feel I could mention here

I wonder if Vigor of Life in the KotC enhancement could also provide repair amplification, we got an iconic construct paladin, after all, the Bladeforged

The same basically also on other class enhancements that provide heal amplification (e.g. barbarian or monk) I wonder if they could also provide negative and repair amplification at least if it is not a real thematically contradiction to the enhancement tree.

(another question I want to repeat here...)
Could you maybe fix Whirlwind or change it, currently the whirlwind attack seems only to work correctly on unarmed attacks (hit twice per target around the character)
With every other weapon, it takes the same use time and the animation appears as if you spin twice but you hit each target only one time.
If you think Whirlwind is overpowered if it would hit twice per target around you it would be nice if the animation and use time is at least appropriate to what it actually does.
Currently Whirlwind is even less good than greater cleave because of this issue.

[Blah2]

Pure Paladin is still 50-60 AC behind pure Fighter.

As it should be. paladins get better saves, self healing, auras to buff others, turn undead and spell casting (buffs and other benefits). Fighter tanks need to be at an advantage in more than just the extra 30 MRR/PRR from feats. thanks for pointing out something done correctly about paladin tanks

[HungarianRhapsody]

Melee have not been disappointing for forever. Its been thf that was just a bit behind twf. It was inquis coming along and giving the exact same dps with much less investment. But a properly built and played melee has almost always been top dog for dps in r10 minus inquis. Now this buff just widens that gap even more.

A properly built and played melee in DDO is vanishingly rare.

[Xgya]

Overall very nice changes in U45 but just two things I feel I could mention here

I wonder if Vigor of Life in the KotC enhancement could also provide repair amplification, we got an iconic construct paladin, after all, the Bladeforged

If named docents had healing amp, I'd simply ask for BF to use the highest of repair or healing amp for both types of spells.
As it stands, I'd add this as an option or an extra line to existing WF racials directly:
- Any enhancement that grants healing amplification also grants an equal amount of repair amplification.

I'm pretty sure the enhancements that grant a bonus are classified as their own bonus type somewhere, so, in theory, this would require less work to implement.

That way, equipment remains untouched, and you still have to plan for one of the two to be higher.
Artificers get hit a bit, but they're not warforged - they don't have to be sensitive to repair spells from the start.

[Montegue]

Great changes, and I can't wait to get into them. I envision an EK build with high spell power, cleaves, and a two handed weapon (I have several good ones rotting in my bank). How much fun will it be to pop a group with Mass Hold, and then Strikethrough with Spellsword?

[darknoobslayer]

Melee have not been disappointing for forever. Its been thf that was just a bit behind twf. It was inquis coming along and giving the exact same dps with much less investment. But a properly built and played melee has almost always been top dog for dps in r10 minus inquis. Now this buff just widens that gap even more.

Thf have been disappointing for a while now with twf tempest near the top of melee single target and aoe damage. Sure there are a few exceptional players who've made thf work (uber completionist, high reaper points, etc) but even they admit it's not really viable. With the changes this would boost thf closer to the top for melee aoe damage. Whether its too much or not that will have to be determined by players play testing it. With cleaves scaling with attack speed will zombie builds cleave slower?

[lyrecono]

True, bears got some unexpected love, but still barb is ahead on damage output, absorption and avoidance. I will count it as a bonus that finally some people will play them, because last time I checked no one was using bears anywhere.

The thing with THF paladins is that they are pigeonholed to be Dreadnoughts, since they don't fully benefit from Fury or even Crusader, that also has an outdated epic moment. They don't fully benefit from being Horc either, because the MP boost is rage based. They are not even stronger as a BF, their own iconic race , they are better as WF (weird I know). And the changes to DM are a nerf, as others have already pointed out.

All those barb stads mean nothing on high reaper, not like keeping your distance.

Back in the day, casters were glass cannons, they had the highest risk of dieing, thus all those powerfull spells.
Melee needs to take the bigger risk these dags thus should out dps most other ranged/caster builds, at least imho

Missed the starting 20%. But still mad about all this few targets thing. Hope I'm wrong when it comes to live, but thats feels poor . 4 targets its still too few of a gain into a full investment of feats, enhancments and EDs. All my grip is more about the ST mechanic itself, too timid with questionable benefits that will more than before strugle in relevance compared to cleave atacks . That considering the combat style itself. Lets not forget that Sorcs and other casters exists and they are abundant that will render useless this auto atack AoE melees.

Anyway thanks for clarification =)

Yeah, 4 2hf feats leaves little room for combat tactics, cleaves or defense.
With the updated cleave speed, swf seems like a better option.....
With the current meta we can't afford agroing to many mobs anyway....

Good points made indeed. May I have to change my mindset a bit on this matter. Hope all the tactical feats are viable out of a fighter/monk life. As melees we always have to worry a bit more about defenses , and all this will only work if you invest beyond the 2hf feat line, some other feats, enhancments and gear to land all that tactical sutff which are starving already ignoring the live GBs enhancments .

Agreed, the number of gear slots to max out 1 combat feat like stun is taxing enoug along side defence and base stats.

Please tell me you are joking. Hitting 4 targets at once with doublestrike and thf base damage plus weapon procs/tactical attacks. That is literally so broken its insane. This buff is so utterly insane a buff for thf aoe its ridiculous.

More insane then any wel geared caster that can out dps, out dps and out utility any pure melee and from a safe distance?

It's a nice boost, but it's also a needed boost.

It's going to be REALLY hard to convince me that Melee are going to be "too strong" when they need to wade into the middle of a swarm of enemies that can 1 or 2 shot kill most of us in order to get that big AOE damage. Yes, this is a really significant improvement, but that's a good thing. Melee have been disappointing for a while now and it's nice to see them get a benefit in exactly the place where most of DDO happens - killing swarms of trash.

Aka hit held mobs and not engaging in acual melee (the trading of blows)

Melee have not been disappointing for forever. Its been thf that was just a bit behind twf. It was inquis coming along and giving the exact same dps with much less investment. But a properly built and played melee has almost always been top dog for dps in r10 minus inquis. Now this buff just widens that gap even more.

Again, dps held trash, boring....

[Chai]

Which channel is Shot on the Run using for ranges alacrity which was added? What type of bonus is it?

[Stravix]

Which channel is Shot on the Run using for ranges alacrity which was added? What type of bonus is it?

It is supposed to be a feat bonus, as confirmed by Coco but currently is is not stacking with gear based alacrity. Seems like a bug, but that is the info we have

[DRoark]

It is supposed to be a feat bonus, as confirmed by Coco (i think) but currently is is not stacking with gear based alacrity. Seems like a bug, but that is the info we have

That doesn't surprize me at all, they hosed ranged builds entirely, instead of fixing the ONLY issue... (even Coco knows this, he posted what it was earlier).

But, hey... at least they're happy!