Changes Based on Preview 2 Feedback

[Rauven]

hey coco - I am a bit confused though; Steelstar had reported that if you add Strikethrough to cleaves and whirlwind that it would function as a nerf by reducing the maximum # of targets from 25 to the strikethrough cap (which is now 5 according to your post).



with this change, will cleaves still hit up to 25 targets in the sweeping arc, but ALSO grant full strikethrough damage up to 5 targets? or will cleave only actually now hit up to 5 targets, depending on your strikethrough value?

Strikethrough is not Doublestrike. Strikethrough is their new system for hitting multiple mobs. Doublestrike is their system for hitting a single mob more than once.

[droid327]

Wait wait....so to address concerns VC was too strong, you....gave them 10 extra spell power and an auto debuff that works on bosses?

Please nerf IPS that way!

VC still does crazy poison damage with crazy ROF, and breaks immunes. Requiring them to use an attack or SLA they likely would be using anyway is not a great restriction.

VC already supports physical damage with thrown weapons. Why do they need immune break? EK doesn't get one and it's basically the same thing. And like wiz or sorc, alch has a high potential for elemental versatility just in their spell book and other trees.

I think the rather high power level of VC would be a little better justified if it had a big weakness against poison immunes, which are pretty widespread, and had to just use physical or elemental attacks against them, just like GOO or Fiend locks have to power through fire and acid immunes with just their secondary element.

Also does DoD gain increased intervals of Strikethrough with the new scale?

I think the new model is more rewarding for THF, and will reach that magical 3-target threshold adequately. I just worry that, aside from Barb, it will be too tough to stack Strikethrough after that, considering most of the sources are mutually exclusive....you'll get 20% base and 120% from the three THF, then maybe 20% from class and 20% racial. Another 30% in epic from PTHF. How are builds supposed to get to 300%? Will there be more Strikethrough available in EDs, PL/EPLs, or on gear? Fatesinger and FotW are going to be another 20, 30% each?

I get where 400% should be the realm of berserk specialists but upper 200s to low 300s should be within striking distance for most THF dedicated builds.

[Kielbasa]

Can Henshin Mystic get some strikethrough in their enhancement tree? The level 12 and 18 cores are quite bland and would be a nice place to put it.

[Caarb]

(Note: You will likely notice that these lists do not contain any further Ranged Style changes despite the large amount of feedback about the Archer's Focus/Improved Precise Shot dynamic that was available in preview 2. For the time being we are comfortable with where Ranged has landed. It is possible that we will revisit that in the future but we'd like to see how players adjust to the new dynamic before considering pulling back on the Archer's Focus movement restriction in the ways suggested in the Ranged thread.)

Stance dancing simply isnt fun - its something the min-maxers will do but most of us will choose a stance and stick with it. IPS is also the worst AoE in group play as mobs do not line up nicely in any situation other than solo kiting. For these reasons taking IPS should not be a single target nerf in any circumstances. Suggest making the hard target 100% damage and the "aoe" damage 80%.

[Atelos]

Well done! I think now 2HF will be a solid AoE melee style and with a decent single target DPS.

Have you considered boosting as well other sources of strikethrough? As:
*Fury of the wild Malicious Weapons & Wild Weapons (5% each)
*One Against Many 3-piece Filigree (5%)?

For instance, angry arms, mad munitions, and All instances of Great Weapon Aptitude were 1/3/5% and turned +5/10/20%, so my suggestion would be also boost those 5% to 20% or a little below?

Thanks

[Quikster]

So, just tell me straight up: Is Whirlwind attack worth taking now? Cause before, it was only worth taking on a monk, because it hit everything 3 or 4 times when used on a monk. On any other build it did a slow spin move and did one hit only.

So can a pure fighter take it and have it do for the fighter what it does for monk then?
And also, opposite question, does this mean that a monk using Whirlwind attack will be an absolute god with the above changes stacking to what Whirlwind Attack ALREADY does on live for a monk?

On a max life monk whirlwind on live is a dps loss.

[DRoark]

...not contain any further Ranged Style changes despite the large amount of feedback...

I knew it, they royally hosed ranged to balance Inquisitor, and now they're still going on with this patch despite the massive amounts of feedback from people who actually play.

Classes that have been subpar for years, now get gifted with Subpar V-2.0.

Sorry Rangers, Mechanics, and Artificers! Better luck in the future, when they sell us a Universal Tree with Greater IPS (adds 20% damage, only 14995 DDO points!)
_____________________________________

Sorcerer time. I wonder if ash from a pile of bows can be used as a spell component. Summon Dumpster-Fire?

[FlavoredSoul]

Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack can now Doublestrike. (Other skills that are Cleave-like also now Doublestrike as a result).
Cleave, Great Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, KOTC's Cleave enhancements, Smite Evil, and Exalted Smite are now affected by your attack speed.
Ranger: Tempest: Dance of Death now applies it's strike through buff even if the attack does not make contact with an enemy.

Blessed.

Will need to see the changes in action (especially whirlwind strike because it has been historically unusable on a non-monk) but these seem very good.

cleave changes + increased strike though cap alleviate most of my concerns with the THF changes, will be looking to run some lives as barb and pally after the update.

[Malusny]

It was clear that we had undershot the THF overhaul in a couple of areas.

• We undershot (and backloaded) the Strikethrough values so that it wasn't fun to hit 1 maybe 2 enemies until high level where you would then hit 2 maybe 3 enemies.
• The ripple effect of losing Glancing Blows was felt heavily for Hand and a Half wielders and Bears.

In order to address those issues we have implemented the following changes internally. These are designed to both boost the total Strikethrough that players will end up with as well as frontload it so that it starts feeling good at lower levels. In addition, we have implemented some changes to make up for the loss of Glancing Blows to both Hand and a Half Wielders as well as Bears.

Changes from Preview 2

• Characters no longer require the feat "Two Handed Fighting" in order to be able to Strikethrough while moving.
• As the moving restriction on Strikethrough has been removed, the Dwarf skill we previewed that removed that restriction has been removed as well.
• The cap on Strikethrough targets is now 5 (at 400%).
• The THF feat now grants 60% Strikethrough.
• The ITHF feat now grants 30% Strikethrough.
• The GTHF feat now grants 30% Strikethrough.
• The PTHF feat now grants 30% Strikethrough.
• The PTHF feat now functions properly if you don't have the full 3-feat THF line.
• Bonuses to Strikethrough from the 4-feat THF line now properly stack (previously, only the highest-level version of the Feat line you had applied its Strikethrough bonus).
• Enhancements
  
  • Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Angry Arms now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance.
  • Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Mad Munitions now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance.
  • Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker: Focus Wide's on-Vorpal buff now grants 50% Strikethrough Chance in place of its previous Glancing Blow component.
  • Rogue: Thief Acrobat: Rogue Improved Glancing Blows has been renamed to "Improved Second Strikes", and now grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance
  • Rogue: Thief Acrobat: Follow-Through's Tumble buff now grants +50% Strikethrough Chance (replacing its previous ability to hit additional targets)
  • Paladin: Knight of the Chalice: Replaces "Knight's Command" with "Improved Second Strikes" which grants +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance
  • Artificer: Battle Engineer: Each Tier of Hand and a Half Training now grants 5% Strikethrough Chance (replacing the previous Glancing Blow component).
  • All instances of Great Weapon Aptitude are now +5/10/20% Strikethrough Chance
• Hand and a Half Weapons
  
  • Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe now apply 1.1x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage. This stacks with the bonuses from Improved and Greater Single Weapon Fighting.
  • Improved Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.35x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage
  • Greater Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.6x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage
• Wild Shape
  
  • The 1st bear attack in the chain was not benefiting from ability mulitplers correctly such as the 1.5 bonus for using a 2 handed weapon but now is.
  • Bears now gain +60/30/30% Strikethrough when they take Natural Weapon Fighting their first, second, and third time respectively.
  • Bears now update their Ability Score Modifier to Damage while using a Two Handed Weapon to 2.0/2.5/3.0 when they take Natural Weapon Fighting their first, second, and third time respectively.
  • Wolves and Bears no longer increase their Ability Score Modifier to Damage while using a Two Handed Weapon when they take the 3-feat THF line (this only really happened internally/on Lamannia not Live).

Would you please make sure that the Cleave Special Attacks(Eldrich Strike and Eldrich Tempest) from Eldrich Knight from Sorcerer and Wizard tree also work with the changes you have listed regarding cleaves? It would be great if the Wiz/Sorc Eldrich Knight would get some kind of Strikethrough bonus also.

I would also ask you to still consider giving the Sword and Board Paladin the Holy Shield back so that it would work with shields again.

It looks like the THF players are getting a huge buff... and the Barbarian seems to benefit even more than Paladin.

Cheers to you guys, we know you're working hard to make everything right.

[FlavoredSoul]

Can Henshin Mystic get some strikethrough in their enhancement tree? The level 12 and 18 cores are quite bland and would be a nice place to put it.

Would be a good way to make up for gutting the melee power out of the tree a while ago because people were splashing monk for the first couple of core's melee power.

Putting some strikethrough in the level 12/18 cores (and maybe like 10 extra melee power in the capstone) would really help out stick pure monks, right now fighter Kensai with a small splash in rogue and monk is the best way to play stick builds.

[Reesi]

<3

I don't even have a monk right now, but I recall whirlwind attack being a let down. Would be really great if you could reconsider its pre-reqs or perhaps give the master of melee damage the feat for free at level say 9, also make sure it doesn't suck? Thanks for enduring our vitriol.

[Ashlayna]

Hey, all!

We wanted to take some time to let you know the changes that have been made to U45 systems based on the feedback provided after Preview 2. We don't have a third preview of U45 on our schedule but felt that it was important to make available updated information this week now that we've had time to parse through the copious feedback. The list below contains design changes in areas that your feedback has swayed us to make. The lists below do not contain bug fixes (which there are already quite a few of).

Let us know what you think after perusing the below lists!

(Note: You will likely notice that these lists do not contain any further Ranged Style changes despite the large amount of feedback about the Archer's Focus/Improved Precise Shot dynamic that was available in preview 2. For the time being we are comfortable with where Ranged has landed. It is possible that we will revisit that in the future but we'd like to see how players adjust to the new dynamic before considering pulling back on the Archer's Focus movement restriction in the ways suggested in the Ranged thread.)

Too bad this didn't go up yesterday, so I could cancel my sub effective this month, instead of paying until May so that my feedback could be swept under the rug as "we're comfortable with where ranged is". I'm not, and I'm not comfortable with what you've told us, and what you're now doing with "well, we'll look at it again down the road". Is that the same down the road for Inquisitive being OP, you know, a year later? In a couple of years? Some of your players don't want to be pigeonholed into specific builds to be able to perform. Since the bulk of the "fixes" are aimed at toons that are either Ranger, or have feats to spare for SotR, you have effectively sealed out any builds that want to use a bow, and not be a ranger, fighter, or some weird hybrid. So long.

[Kissykong]

It was clear that we had undershot the THF overhaul in a couple of areas.
[*][*]Hand and a Half Weapons

• Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe now apply 1.1x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage. This stacks with the bonuses from Improved and Greater Single Weapon Fighting.
• Improved Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.35x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage
• Greater Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.6x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage

Please help me understand, does that mean that a hand and half user will get a 4.05x bonus from your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage? or that tier 1 (1.1) will stack with tier 3 (1.6) for a 2.7x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage.

Scenario 1 seems a bit too much, would be strange that h&h gets more damage than straight thf from the thf feat line, but it would help them close the breach. Scenario 2 would be just about right as h&h should (in my opinion, at least) benefit at least 2/3 of the ability score modifier as the thf do.


Thank you and hope i wasnt to convoluted.

[HastyPudding]

Question!

I haven't really been following along with the THF stuff (not my favorite playstyle and not much experience with it, so my input would be useless) and I saw some of the stuff was changed with bears. I was wondering, are bears going to be more viable, now, due to the strikethrough bonuses? Before they were kind of....tanky but not tanky with mediocre damage. Now?

[Capricorpus]

I get that you guys want to push the update out, but you just dropped a list of massive meta-adjusting changes that shouldn't go live without players being able to test them and provide feedback.

Please strongly consider having a third preview.

[Lagy]

Was the bug where Ascendancy would not work with longbows when they were favored weapons fixed?

[TitusOvid]

Just because it's not on this list doesn't mean we aren't still working on it.

Well, what shall we do?! Guess? If it's not on the list or mentioned in the OP we naturally assume that that's it ...

But since you made that comment, I am gonna asked, if there will be any changes in Catacombs or Delera's?

Cheers,
Titus

[Draxis]

Wait wait....so to address concerns VC was too strong, you....gave them 10 extra spell power and an auto debuff that works on bosses?
VC already supports physical damage with thrown weapons. Why do they need immune break? EK doesn't get one and it's basically the same thing. And like wiz or sorc, alch has a high potential for elemental versatility just in their spell book and other trees.

There are a lot more things immune to poison than are immune to elements. Without an immune breaker VC is all but useless in a lot of content. Plus EK can always swap out their Spellsword element on the fly whenever they encounter an immune or high resistance mob. VC doesn't get that luxury.

[LurkingVeteran]

Too bad this didn't go up yesterday, so I could cancel my sub effective this month, instead of paying until May so that my feedback could be swept under the rug as "we're comfortable with where ranged is". I'm not, and I'm not comfortable with what you've told us, and what you're now doing with "well, we'll look at it again down the road". Is that the same down the road for Inquisitive being OP, you know, a year later? In a couple of years? Some of your players don't want to be pigeonholed into specific builds to be able to perform. Since the bulk of the "fixes" are aimed at toons that are either Ranger, or have feats to spare for SotR, you have effectively sealed out any builds that want to use a bow, and not be a ranger, fighter, or some weird hybrid. So long.

I suspect your FvS AA heroic build will do slightly more damage after the changes if you using elemental srrow or archers focus.

[Alcides]

[*][*]Hand and a Half Weapons

• Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe now apply 1.1x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage. This stacks with the bonuses from Improved and Greater Single Weapon Fighting.
• Improved Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.35x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage
• Greater Two Handed Fighting now also improves Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe to 1.6x your relevant Ability Score Modifier to damage

Did you mean to say "Improved and Greater Two Handed Fighting" instead of "Improved and Greater Single Weapon Fighting" in the above comment?

Is the damage multiplier of Hand and a Half Weapons for Two Handed Fighting plus Improved Two Handed Fighting 1.35x or 1.45x?

Is the damage multiplier of Hand and a Half Weapons for Two Handed Fighting plus Improved Two Handed Fighting plus Greater Two Handed Fighting 1.6x or 1.7x or 2.05x?