Some Positive Thoughts: Levels Beyond 30

[GoldyGopher]

this seems backwards to me because there are a finite number of (useful) past lives, and the "haves" already have quite a few

we agree this change does not help a new player keep pace with a power gamer when both start a character right now, but i think another important goal is helping a new player catch up to a power gamer who is already completionist+

The problem is power gamers (a large segment of them) are not completionists. I have complete 14 past lives on my main character (hopefully 15 by tomorrow) and 6 Epic Past Lives with ~30 Reaper Points. This characters is no where near complete and I have mapped out another 15 past lives and another half-a-dozen epic past lives.

My guildie who plays about half-as-much as I do is on his fifth past life with 2 Epic Past Lives. Because I play more and my character already has additional bonuses (Racial Points Epic past Lives) I can complete content faster than they can. By the time he completes three past lives under the shortened system I will have completed more than 10. The power gap between the two characters has gotten much bigger.

That's the problem.

What players want is a way to close that power gap, not widen it. Under the current system (hamster wheel) of XP and Reincarnations I am not sure there is a way to do that.

[Kinerd]

The problem is power gamers (a large segment of them) are not completionists. I have complete 14 past lives on my main character (hopefully 15 by tomorrow) and 6 Epic Past Lives with ~30 Reaper Points. This characters is no where near complete and I have mapped out another 15 past lives and another half-a-dozen epic past lives.

My guildie who plays about half-as-much as I do is on his fifth past life with 2 Epic Past Lives. Because I play more and my character already has additional bonuses (Racial Points Epic past Lives) I can complete content faster than they can. By the time he completes three past lives under the shortened system I will have completed more than 10. The power gap between the two characters has gotten much bigger.

That's the problem.

What players want is a way to close that power gap, not widen it. Under the current system (hamster wheel) of XP and Reincarnations I am not sure there is a way to do that.

my point though is that the 15th past life isn't as significant, and eventually more past lives are literally insignificant because a character already has every bonus they can get.

rather than further speculate, why don't you show us what the first 15/6 past lives got you and what the next 15/6 will, and we can compare and contrast directly?

[GoldyGopher]

my point though is that the 15th past life isn't as significant, and eventually more past lives are literally insignificant because a character already has every bonus they can get.

rather than further speculate, why don't you show us what the first 15/6 past lives got you and what the next 15/6 will, and we can compare and contrast directly?

There is no argument from me that each step is slightly less of an improvement of a character, the biggest improvement for any character is going from 28/32 to a 34 point build, and each step is slightly less of an improvement, however when I take 30 steps and you take 12, the sheer volume of my steps generates more improvement. Plus with each step of improvement I am able to complete the next step slightly faster.

[Kinerd]

There is no argument from me that each step is slightly less of an improvement of a character, the biggest improvement for any character is going from 28/32 to a 34 point build, and each step is slightly less of an improvement, however when I take 30 steps and you take 12, the sheer volume of my steps generates more improvement. Plus with each step of improvement I am able to complete the next step slightly faster.

more yes, but how much specifically? suppose we're both aiming to make an arcane, and we each want 3 each of wiz/sorc/fvs past lives. what do the next umpteen heroic lives really get you over me? the only casting relevant things that jump out at me are 1 DC for heroic Completionist and 2 DC for racial completionist (counting the drow and gnome second lives), for 48 heroic lives you can go ahead and have 'em, haha! i'll be happy with my 9 and not having to play melees for a year. sure i wouldn't mind some more PRR fort HP etc. but as a non power gamer i would be much happier getting my 9 much faster than worrying about you getting ancillary bonuses; the gap between where i want to be and where i am is narrowed much more than the real gap between you and me is widened

[GoldyGopher]

more yes, but how much specifically? suppose we're both aiming to make an arcane, and we each want 3 each of wiz/sorc/fvs past lives. what do the next umpteen heroic lives really get you over me? the only casting relevant things that jump out at me are 1 DC for heroic Completionist and 2 DC for racial completionist (counting the drow and gnome second lives), for 48 heroic lives you can go ahead and have 'em, haha! i'll be happy with my 9 and not having to play melees for a year. sure i wouldn't mind some more PRR fort HP etc. but as a non power gamer i would be much happier getting my 9 much faster than worrying about you getting ancillary bonuses; the gap between where i want to be and where i am is narrowed much more than the real gap between you and me is widened

If you are only going to do 9 heroic past lives what does the extra 7 Million XP matter over the course of seven lives?
Seriously.

That's what an additional 4 maybe 5 hours of actually questing hours per life if you are slow, so 28 to 35 hours total across the 7 lives where the suggestion is top lower the XP is a change.

What about Reaper XP?
How are players grinding out Reaper XP?

[Kinerd]

If you are only going to do 9 heroic past lives what does the extra 7 Million XP matter over the course of seven lives?
Seriously.

That's what an additional 4 maybe 5 hours of actually questing hours per life if you are slow, so 28 to 35 hours total across the 7 lives where the suggestion is top lower the XP is a change.

What about Reaper XP?
How are players grinding out Reaper XP?

it would appear i am very slow because i don't get anywhere near 200k XP per hour, but even if i did i would very much like those 35 hours, especially since no matter what arcane build i aim to end on MOST of those past lives would be in a class that wasn't that

i also am not sure from this post if we agree now that gap-widening is not a concern, would it be fair to say we are?

i can't speak to how players are grinding reaper XP but i imagine people would be very happy to reduce the grind there too. indeed, as the OP said "If we're getting another layer of grind, old layers of grind should be more easily/quickly obtained." and we can certainly agree reaper would qualify as an old layer of grind, right?

[GoldyGopher]

it would appear i am very slow because i don't get anywhere near 200k XP per hour, but even if i did i would very much like those 35 hours, especially since no matter what arcane build i aim to end on MOST of those past lives would be in a class that wasn't that

i also am not sure from this post if we agree now that gap-widening is not a concern, would it be fair to say we are?

i can't speak to how players are grinding reaper XP but i imagine people would be very happy to reduce the grind there too. indeed, as the OP said "If we're getting another layer of grind, old layers of grind should be more easily/quickly obtained." and we can certainly agree reaper would qualify as an old layer of grind, right?

The gap-widening exists but as it provides benefits you consider negligible it is not worth discussing. I see a couple hundred hit points, 2/4/6 Racial Enhancement Points, a couple hundred spell points, +2 to an off stat all as bonuses to any character. The big one you are skipping is Reaper Points.

In the past six hours I earned an average of 142,000 XP an hour running Wilderness Adventure Areas. Not a single quest from 16/17ish to one dot from 20. I am a VIP, have a Greater Tome of Learning, using a +150 slayer pot and a +30 XP pot. Both of which I have huge stacks of from daily rolls, so I use them. I could have easily made that number go higher even just running the Wilderness Adventure Areas, let alone questing. Wilderness Adventure Areas are brain dead simple and yet I spent too much time chasing out of the way rares, haven't equipped at level gear as I am still using Korthos loot, but I am lazy and not a power gamer. Heck i am currently on have +5% striders on. I should go get my +30 out of the bank. Power Gamers can earn easily 240,000 XP an hour easily, throw in 15,000 Reaper XP and hour. I had one power gamer tell me they can earn 320,000 XP an hour over the course of heroic life, that's about 12 hours of questing time to get to Korthos to 20. I can not fathom it as I am in the 24 to 30 hour range.

That in a nut shell is my problem with this solution. Lowering the XP to level on 3rd and subsequent lives may make it easier on the casual player, a difference many may not even really notice, it allows the power gamer to even more quickly achieve character power. With many games currently increasing the time spent leveling characters (they don't have TR so it is not a true comparison between DDO and World of Slowcraft) this solution does nothing for me.