Really love swashbuckling, but should I start with a level of rogue?

[Vinven]

I have a level 18 halfling swashbuckler so far and really enjoying him. I think I'd like to reincarnate him starting off with a level of rogue. The utility of opening locks and disarming traps would be nice. The sneak attack would also be a bonus, being a halfling. I already have a lot of bluff, and a lot of gear benefiting open lock, disarm device, sneak attacks, etc.

My only concern is that it might lower my abilities at being a bard. My healing, buffs, crowd control etc would be weaker? I'm not sure how much a level or two of rogue would change him.

I am using the build The Count of Monte Cristo but slightly modified for my personal tastes.

[unbongwah]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...or-new-players

Can work with any race and it's possible to be CHA-, DEX- or INT-based rather than STR. There are deeper multiclasses out there (like this one) but this is "rogue-splashed Swashbuckler" in its most basic form.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...archanter-Bard

Icebreaker is a PDK-only bard which takes advantage of Cormyrian Knight Training: "You now use Charisma or Strength, whichever is higher, for attack and damage with shortswords, longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords.
In addition, as long as your Charisma remains higher than your Strength and you are wielding one of the above weapons, you receive a bonus to the DCs of your Tactical Feats equal to 1/3 your Charisma modifier." Swashbuckler's Smooth Flourishes provides CHA to damage but not to-hit, so CKT lets you turn CHA into your all-in-one stat (to-hit, damage, and bard spell DCs); plus the DC bonus applies to Warchanter's freeze attacks (Frozen Fury, Spinning Ice). The downside is it effectively restricts you to short swords.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...rrent-end-game

For a Swashbuckler with a greater emphasis on melee DPS, the go-to deep splash is fighter or barbarian 6 using handaxes.

[Fivetigers33]

My only concern is that it might lower my abilities at being a bard. My healing, buffs, crowd control etc would be weaker? I'm not sure how much a level or two of rogue would change him.

You won't lose much by taking 2 levels of Rogue. You will get evasion which you are losing from the Swashbuckler capstone, but you are getting it from rogue much earlier than at level 20 with bard. Your buffs will won't last quite as long, but nothing crazy (-12 seconds on haste/displacement). You can always take Extend Spell if you want. The DCs of your crowd control spells wont be affected until you get to epics, where they will have a -1 as well as -2 to your spell penetration. If you are gearing for Spell DCs and Spell penetration, it wont be an issue. Fascinate will be unaffected. The difference in healing will be marginal.

[Xandez]

You could also do a INT based swashie or freezechanter, harper helps (would deffo take this myself, espec if goint the warchanter route) but is not absolutely necessary...

Played a 2 rog/3fig/15brd (int-based freezer) before i switched to 1FvS/3fig/16brd PDK (cha based freezer)... the fighter levels are not that necessary, more bard? Rogue? Whatever... dont miss the evasion that much tbh but ymmv ofc.

[Humongus]

I found this very interesting. I have just started playing again after a long time off.

I have a long time bard (pre-swash, and I think even pre-epic destinies) and when I stepped away I was progressing on a 2nd life halfing bard/fighter/rogue combo that I reallly liked, but the build template I was following is lost to time (plus so much has changed).

My dream would be a Bard/Rogue combo that could: find/disable any trap at any level, including the saves needed(e.g., through Reaper/Epic); be self sustaining with the ability to splash decent (not FVS cleric like but workable) heals around; have enough HP and resists to withstand tight spots; do respectable (but doesn't have to be all world) DPS.

My current halfling setup is charisma based (I'm greedy I want fascinates, etc.), with CON and INT (for the skill points mostly). I can already see some limitations (e.g., no Charisma to hit), though the traps and heals are fine.

Any suggestions for a halfing/CHR build that, while maybe not Icebreaker (I don't have PDK atm) or the dwarf hand-axe, would meet my requirements and be fun to play?


"Can work with any race and it's possible to be CHA-, DEX- or INT-based rather than STR. There are deeper multiclasses out there but this is "rogue-splashed Swashbuckler" in its most basic form.

Icebreaker is a PDK-only bard which takes advantage of Cormyrian Knight Training: "You now use Charisma or Strength, whichever is higher, for attack and damage with shortswords, longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords.
In addition, as long as your Charisma remains higher than your Strength and you are wielding one of the above weapons, you receive a bonus to the DCs of your Tactical Feats equal to 1/3 your Charisma modifier." Swashbuckler's Smooth Flourishes provides CHA to damage but not to-hit, so CKT lets you turn CHA into your all-in-one stat (to-hit, damage, and bard spell DCs); plus the DC bonus applies to Warchanter's freeze attacks (Frozen Fury, Spinning Ice). The downside is it effectively restricts you to short swords."

[Coffey]

You can use a Longsword or a Bastard Sword if you look at the ddowiki: Bug: Does not require Swashbuckling. It may be used with non finesse weapon.[UnverifiedIcon tooltip.png] Tested in Game with Bastard Sword and Buckler, SWF attack speed and Shield Mastery bonuses were maintained. The swashbuckling bonuses (+10 Dodge) are not applied.

[Xandez]

Yeah but then you will loose the swashbuckling benefits to light weapons, so imo you should stick to those.

Passive: While Swashbuckling, the following weapons receive Competence bonuses to their critical profiles (critical threat range bonuses doubled with the appropriate Improved Critical feat, but not with keen or impact):

Dagger, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger: +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Light Mace, Light Hammer, Kama, Sickle, Dart, Shuriken, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Kukri, Rapier: +1 Multiplier
Handaxe: +2 Range
Light Pick: +1 Range

Or you could take knights training feat to compensate and use longswords... *shrug*

The Harper tree gives you both INT to hit and dmg while int gives more skillpoints and also raises your DC:s for disable and search so thats why i think its a "perfect" tree for a trapper wannabe rogue bard build (it also gives you flat dmg and bonuses to tactical feats (Know The Angles), which is why i hinted towards the warchanter).

In some stages of the game you might find that your survivability could take a hit, or you will have to solo something relatively difficult. Then, take a close look at the warchanter trees and imagine the vast possibilities what freezing gives you (both CC and dmg wise).