U45 Preview 1: Balance Changes Main Thread

[Rosze]

Percentage HP

• Stalwart and Sacred Defender: remain at 20% Competence
• Nature's Protector: remains at 25% Competence
• Unyielding Sentinel: remains at 20% Insightful
• Aasimar stays typed as Sacred, goes to 5% down from 10%
• Bladeforged gains 5% Quality in a new Tier 4 (2 AP) in their Racial Tree.
• Paladin 18th core gains 10% Sacred HP (this is also in the above notes for clarity)
• Enlightened Spirit level 20 capstone stays at 20% Sacred
• Occult Slayer t5 Bond of Destruction gains 10% Quality
• Renegade Mastermaker goes to 10% Quality down from 20% racial
• Upgraded Zombie in t5 Palemaster goes to 10% Profane
• Shintao t5 gains 10% Quality in meditation of war earth stance (up from 3% untyped)
• Falconry t3 goes to 5% Quality (already 5% just adds a channel)
• Dwarf goes from 4% stacking to 5% Quality
• Warpriest core 4 (level 12) gets 10% Quality

• N/A

I feel the investment in point in the aasimar tree made the 10% seem like a good number especially compared to the alternative path. It makes it worth farming those life’s to have enough racial points to afford them at ease. Maybe having race based hp be racial so it stack with basically everything would be a nice change. This goes for bladeforged and dwarf with giving bladeforged also 10% and maybe moving dwarf up the tree or keeping it at 5% as it requires less investment.

I really liked falconry stacking with everything. It’s available for any class and race and it’s a nice way to add extra hp to build if you have the ap to spare. I’m biased as I like the combo with aasimar/monk/falconry almost allows me to tank but with ki shout broken it never really happened.

Then the question about epic defensive fighting. I think it would make sense if tanks could use it too. Who has the feats sure, but the way it’s now any melee just get the same ho buff as the tank from their tree. Maybe have it be a epic bonus and give same or half the effect from shield mastery tiers. Maybe it’s too much but your tank should be just a ton of hp. Then melee second and then have casters after that.

[Sho-sa]

If this was significant *problem*, you wouldn't turn it on and leave it on, because it'd be tactically NECESSARY that you do all that other stuff. It's not, so you elected to altogether quit doing the insignificant thing. It is not tactically NECESSARY for melees to heal/rez/buff their teammates, hence why they ALL turn the feat on and leave it on. The only reason people complain is because they don't like being REMINDED that the restriction exists when they forget, not because it's created a common tactical problem. Take away the restriction and simply make it turn the feat off and people will stop complaining about their imaginary issue and have a MUCH more realistic idea of how often they ACTUALLY run up against the restriction, to wit, almost never.

Another benefit of this method would be that they could then exempt specific spells or abilities from turning the feat off. My suggestion would be to exempt all epic abilities and the spells Heal, Mass Heal, Resurrection, True Resurrection, Regeneration, and Mass Regeneration. Those require some investment to access, which makes it a good tradeoff instead of a categorical annoyance.

Agree with Sir Valentine, this is simply not true. My lvl 30 (Melee) Ranger constantly needs to heal PUGs and groups making token runs. EDF is NEVER turned on by me because it nerfs heals so bad and other players would need rezes.

Now, to your point about it being, "NECESSARY,"? Sure, I could just let my fellow players in the DDO world die instead of enjoy playing the game; however, that is not my style. I would rather have fun and play with people and make new friends than just carry stones in my rucksack and solo.

Not criticizing your playstyle but I take exception to the blanket statement that, "ALL melees turn the feat on and leave it on." I am reminded the restriction (on healing) exists so I turn it off and leave it off. I complain because I lose a butt-load of hit points because I like to help players.

[catfumaster]

Since you are changing Spring Attack (thank you by the way) why not change Whirlwind Attack to something like the new Dance of Death but with a long cool down. Perhaps 3 minutes or something with a 20 second duration. Maybe classes besides monk will take it then.

[JOTMON]

Percentage HP

• Stalwart and Sacred Defender: remain at 20% Competence
• Nature's Protector: remains at 25% Competence
• Unyielding Sentinel: remains at 20% Insightful
• Aasimar stays typed as Sacred, goes to 5% down from 10%
• Bladeforged gains 5% Quality in a new Tier 4 (2 AP) in their Racial Tree.
• Paladin 18th core gains 10% Sacred HP (this is also in the above notes for clarity)
• Enlightened Spirit level 20 capstone stays at 20% Sacred
• Occult Slayer t5 Bond of Destruction gains 10% Quality
• Renegade Mastermaker goes to 10% Quality down from 20% racial
• Upgraded Zombie in t5 Palemaster goes to 10% Profane
• Shintao t5 gains 10% Quality in meditation of war earth stance (up from 3% untyped)
• Falconry t3 goes to 5% Quality (already 5% just adds a channel)
• Dwarf goes from 4% stacking to 5% Quality
• Warpriest core 4 (level 12) gets 10% Quality

Thoughts? First impressions? Complaints about the removal of Reprisal? We're very much hoping that these changes make building a tank more of an exciting experience, and look forward to seeing what you all can come up with!

Known Issues

• N/A

I am confused as to why Racial HP are not aligned with all the races.

Why the mis-match with quality/Sacred on racial lines it screws with stacking of HP and class combinations..

[Kekeldude]

How about the Epic Defensive Fighting feat? Currently a Competence Bonus that does not stack with Greater Stalwart Defense.

I hope they changed it into something else which stacks with everything else. At the moment if i want to get more hp i am not really looking into a Fighter or Paladin to multiclass, especially since the 10% sacred HP is a 18 Core.

[apocaladle]

so seeing how aasimar and inq are both being hit with a nerf bat, any chance we can get ottos boxes when the update goes live?

kinda lost motivation to finish leveling the toon to 20 seeing as how it will never be what I built him for and since there is no such thing as a lesser racial heart to swap races I would like to be able to try a different build but leveling all the way up to 20 is going to suck and seeing as I have 40~ past lives I am not going to start another toon.

[dumbbunny]

EDF has significant, playstyle warping tradeoffs that 3 levels of Fighter do not.

Hey Lynnabel,
(I summarized down below. I know you are busy feel free to skip the next bit sorry...)
I understand that EDF has significant trade offs to have active but it is replacing a large part of the Paladin and Fighter tree's power. 25 PRR/MRR is nice but the 20% hp not stacking means that there is actually very little past that for fighters. This means that you can get the biggest part of what dps toons want from the best second option for fighter and paladin dps (vanguard has a lot of dps bonuses but requiring a shield means that it is not ideal for damage.) Throw on top of that Kensai does not match Barbarian trees for damage, hit point bonuses, healing amp, you have to spend 21 aps to get to the move speed etc and they are in a really weak state. KOTC buffs will help some but it doesn't make up for the loss of maybe 30% of their best second tree option's power. Against a wolf build they get to rage a moderate defensive stance and the ability to cast spells while doing it. The only problem pure druids have is do they go str build or wisdom and eat 12 aps to get wisdom to hit and damage losing part of the bonus from rage. They also probably at least match pure fighter or paladin for dps due to the high attack speed in wolf form while simultaneously getting to use aoe heals for the party without losing edf if they just center on themselves. They also have the option to switch to bear form and get the hp bonus if they need defense and ranged healing. fighters get to... sorta smack stuff with limited power for limited time with only 8 minutes of power surge (which is less effective than 8 minutes of boosts because you eat 1 minute activating it and often loose time moving between fights).

To summarize the problem with this is stalwart defender and sacred defender trees have a pretty solid chunk of their power locked in that 20% hp. The existence of EDF directly removes a large portion of this especially since casting is not either of their primary function. They have since received nothing in compensation and fighter has even been nerfed by the power surge change from an action boost. The third tree Vanguard is only applicable to tanks or oddball builds such as strimtoms vanguard. while it does alright it is not top tier dps. It adds effectively nothing to dps toons. it adds marginal bonuses to tank toons. It is a cool flavor build but much like henshin mystic it is pretty bad as a tree.

Thanks for your efforts on the game.

[silinteresting]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Hello, all! Update 45 is expected to contain a large amount of changes to systems balance in DDO. These are being done in preparation for Hardcore Season 2. Going forward we the plan is to pool most major balance changes into updates/patches that arrive before the start of new Hardcore seasons in order to make the new season feel distinct and different from previous seasons. For Hardcore season 2 this primarily takes the form of changes to Ranged Combat, Two Handed Fighting Melee Combat, and a Knight of the Chalice revamp. There are, however, a multitude of other balance changes in this preview build which weren't large enough for their own thread but were too large in total to place in the main thread. Below are a variety of different changes in this preview. Some of these things are somewhat interconnected to other balance changes and as such, it will make the feedback process the most productive that it can be to review all of the balance changes before putting forth thoughts and suggestions on individual pieces.

Individual Changes

• Aasimar's Healing Hands is now capped at 20 character levels.
• Scion of the Ethereal Plane now adds 1.5 Sneak Attack Damage per rank of Hide you have, instead of 1 for every 3 points of your total Hide score.
• Dragon Breath in Draconic Incarnation now has a 60 second cooldown
• Draconic Fury in Draconic Incarnation now has a 90 second cooldown
• Sunder is now: Tactical Melee Attack: Using this attack, you may reduce the target's Armor Class by 10% and Fortification by 25% for 6 seconds. Some creatures may be immune to the sunder effect. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC 10 + STR Mod + Sunder Bonuses). Cooldown: 10 seconds.
• Improved Sunder is now: Tactical Melee Attack: Using this attack, you may reduce the target's Armor Class by 10% and Fortification by 25% for 12 seconds. Some creatures may be immune to the sunder effect. (DC 10 + STR Mod + Sunder Bonuses). Regardless of saving throw result, enemies will suffer the Trauma effect, which is a -3 penalty to Fortitude saving throws. Stacks 5 times. Lasts 24 seconds. Cooldown: 10 seconds. This feat replaces your Sunder feat.
• Falconry: Diving Attack's cooldown has been reduced to 12 seconds from 20 seconds.
• Falconry: Coordinated Strike's cooldown has been reduced to 25 seconds from 60 seconds

Known Issues

• N/A

please can you explain why dragons breath is having its cool down extended from 25s to 60s please?

your friend sil

[Zer0AcmE]

Nerfing the Aasimar healing hands is TRASH!!!

[J1NG]

Nerfing the Aasimar healing hands is TRASH!!!

Well, it's now only 33% less effective. So more Wisdom boosting needed, or more Amp. But it's still viable so long as you don't neglect Wisdom entirely.

It was a LOT worse on Lamannia today when I tried it out. Guessing a Dev had a "Fat Finger" moment or something and hit "10" instead of "20" for the Max Character Level that it will take. Because THAT was a 66% reduction from live play, that made even my Wisdom heavy character healing for barely 1400 with x4 Amp (311%). Now THAT was horrible. Right now, it's still servicable, I myself get 700 before Amp per use, so it's a useful top-up or last minute save still. Just not as amazing as before.

J1NG

[AstorPotamus]

I’d LOVE to check out lamannia to see how SSG devs just murdered my build but apparently they haven’t gotten around to making it available to Mac users since they killed off the old Mac client to provide us with a wine client that single thread spikes my cpu. From what I’ve heard from everybody who’s actually seen it, you just nerfed every ranger build in the game into obsolescence. If dance of death can only be used while motionless, they’ve made it completely useless to anybody trying to avoid being flanked by mobs. If it’s true I can safely assume SSG staff has ZERO idea about melee tactics in this game, or any game.

[vryxnr]

Scion of the Ethereal Plane now adds 1.5 Sneak Attack Damage per rank of Hide you have, instead of 1 for every 3 points of your total Hide score.

Just a quick note regarding this change for those who don't like doing math...

As mentioned by a few others already, this is a nerf for characters that invested in stealth, but a small DPS buff for anyone with max hide ranks but low stealth scores.

23 ranks at 1.5 damage per rank = 34.5 damage
In order to get 34.5 damage in the old system or +1 per 3 hide score, you'd need a 103.5 hide score

So if you have max ranks in hide, and a hide score of 103 or less, it's a buff... but if you have a hide score of 104 or higher, it's a nerf.

(I only took this on 2 of my characters, one with a score of 107, and the other with a 165... so it's a nerf for me)

[Carrow12]

I'm glad I got my aasimar life out of the way - why would you hit hands? Who does that benefit? Is someone calling out for a nerf because you healed them too much? Or, you managed to save yourself from death? Seriously?

And we're going from 10% to 5%? Why?

Are these changes supposed to bring balance, or are we just nerfing?

[Qeistalan]

[QUOTE=Cocomajobo;6281674]Disclaimer Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Update 45 is expected to contain a large amount of changes to systems balance in DDO.

To-Do List:
#1) Win the largest Lottery jackpot in history.
#2) Buy DDO from SSG. As new owner of DDO, never allow an update like U45 to happen again. EVER.
#3) Alms for the Poor (aka: Give Monks back their nerfed dice).
#4) Put Topaz of Power +200 back in the Epic Shade's Hood.

Here endeth the lesson.

[Nickodeamous]

question about the new SA and Hide method. For me, I have 102 hide, so this actually calculates better for me. I play a monk, and choose ethereal but I am not wondering if I should go to arborea or back to astral plain.

My question is, is 34.5 SA damage better than 8% Double Strike, or +20 Melee Power. I'm going with the best, so any suggestion is worth it to me.

Thanks!
Nico

[Alcides]

Reworking suggestions...

[dg_evil]

Percentage HP

• Stalwart and Sacred Defender: remain at 20% Competence
• Nature's Protector: remains at 25% Competence
• Unyielding Sentinel: remains at 20% Insightful
• Aasimar stays typed as Sacred, goes to 5% down from 10%
• Bladeforged gains 5% Quality in a new Tier 4 (2 AP) in their Racial Tree.
• Paladin 18th core gains 10% Sacred HP (this is also in the above notes for clarity)
• Enlightened Spirit level 20 capstone stays at 20% Sacred
• Occult Slayer t5 Bond of Destruction gains 10% Quality
• Renegade Mastermaker goes to 10% Quality down from 20% racial
• Upgraded Zombie in t5 Palemaster goes to 10% Profane
• Shintao t5 gains 10% Quality in meditation of war earth stance (up from 3% untyped)
• Falconry t3 goes to 5% Quality (already 5% just adds a channel)
• Dwarf goes from 4% stacking to 5% Quality
• Warpriest core 4 (level 12) gets 10% Quality

Known Issues

• N/A

The bonuses from the racial trees should be a racial bonus and not a quality bonus. It should be differentiated from the other "quality" bonuses and stack with them so that it is an actual bonus for building your tank from that race.

Stalwart and Sacred defender bonuses should be increased to 25% to match EDF.

[dg_evil]

As part of U45 we're reshuffling where percentage HP can be found, as well as cleaning up and polishing the Tier 5s and late cores of Stalwart and Sacred Defender. We hope these changes open up a lot of new Tank builds and ease some of the pressure to multiclass for dedicated Tank players.

Stalwart Defense

• Stand Fast (Core 12): Instead of an Action Boost that ends Fear and Knockdown, this is now Fear and Knockdown immunity passively
• Defensive Sweep (Core 18): No longer an active. Now passively adds +15% Exceptional bonus to Armor Class , +50% threat, and +25 PRR.
• Against All Odds (Fills empty T5 Slot): +5 AC, taking damage adds a stacking +2 AC, stacks 10 times
• Reprisal: replaced with: The Thick of Battle (Tier 5): Striking enemies adds +10% Melee Threat. Max 10 stacks, 10 second timer, all stacks fade when timer runs out.

The active portion of the Stalwart Defender capstone, Last Stand, should be re-worked. Its currently 6 charges with a 30 second duration each and a 3 min cool down. If you look at a fight like R5+ Project Nemesis, a tank can easily have 60 minutes of active combat but this capstone only provides 3 minutes total worth of boost. The boosts should be reworked to have a significantly longer duration, say 3 minutes, or you should significantly increase the number of boosts, say 30, and reduce the cool down, say 90 seconds, so that it becomes actually meaningful to a current end game fight. It would also make the capstone really worth going 20 fighter. As it is, since it only increases max HP and not actual HP its not even super useful in an oh **** moment as a safety net, ala undying vanguard, because once you hit it you still need a big heal to fill you up. (If its not asking too much, could it also not only increase max hp, but actually increase the active hp too so we could use it in an oh **** moment)? Thanks!

[joenic2]

I agree that the HP bonus should have racial and not quality attached to it. Also, why lower the Aasimar HP from 10% to 5%? Is it unbalancing? That makes no sense to me. It is a T4 racial and you need to invest 15 racial points just to get it thus minimizing what you can spend in other trees. Yes those who have done their racials can afford it but they worked hard for that. Disappointing. Was it really game unbalancing? Healers need a bit of HP love too to keep the melees up. Lowering the healing hands is a bit harsh too. That is an important tool for a healer to keep others alive or a melee for self healing cause they need all the love right now compared to casters and ranged. Less healing means more deaths.

[noinfo]

As part of U45 we're reshuffling where percentage HP can be found, as well as cleaning up and polishing the Tier 5s and late cores of Stalwart and Sacred Defender. We hope these changes open up a lot of new Tank builds and ease some of the pressure to multiclass for dedicated Tank players.



Percentage HP

• Stalwart and Sacred Defender: remain at 20% ->should go to at least 25% adding extra in higher tier if neededCompetence
• Nature's Protector: remains at 25% Competence
• Unyielding Sentinel: remains at 20% Insightful
• Aasimar stays typed as Sacred->should be racial, goes to 5% down from 10%
• Bladeforged gains 5% Quality->should be racial in a new Tier 4 (2 AP) in their Racial Tree.
• Paladin 18th core gains 10% Sacred HP (this is also in the above notes for clarity)
• Enlightened Spirit level 20 capstone stays at 20% Sacred
• Occult Slayer t5 Bond of Destruction gains 10% Quality
• Renegade Mastermaker goes to 10% Quality down from 20% racial
• Upgraded Zombie in t5 Palemaster goes to 10% Profane
• Shintao t5 gains 10% Quality in meditation of war earth stance (up from 3% untyped)
• Falconry t3 goes to 5% Quality (already 5% just adds a channel)
• Dwarf goes from 4% stacking to 5% Quality-> should be racial
• Warpriest core 4 (level 12) gets 10% Quality

Thoughts? First impressions? Complaints about the removal of Reprisal? We're very much hoping that these changes make building a tank more of an exciting experience, and look forward to seeing what you all can come up with!

Known Issues

• N/A

What I am seeing is that in most cases Tank HP are going down. (not dps hp which are going up in some cases) so the question is are Tanks over performing?
I am not sure what the reasoning is behind this. And while I don't have an issue with nerfing the % given by the artificer tree though I think it should be made up else where or keep it and have it made up elsewhere and it is not. Find somewhere where the tanking classes can get 20% extra hp (T5)
Aasimar down to 5%? If this is to bring it in line with other races then make it same type and drop it 1 or more tiers to be less expensive.

My main is certainly not a tank and I am no tank expert but I do have 2 that I pull out for raids. Yep it will be a nerf to at least one of them and I have not real desire to work out where this will take them besides the -15% to its current hp total which does not really put me in the excited category.