How to get players to group when they usually don't.

[fatherpirate]

I am sure that the developers have discussed this question more than once.
and they have put in a a few changes to encourage it.

so how do you do it?

It would really take 3 changes, one the developers might not like...or they might be ok with it.

1st (part that developers might not like) A F2P/Prem player willing to get into a
Que to launch as a group (pug only-not premade) should be allowed into dungeons he/she does
not own. ---- this is the 'bait'.

If a F2P player is willing to go with a pug and stay in it- they get access they don't
usually have. (they break group, they get kicked from dungeon automatically)

the rest is easy

Set up an auto group filler with a que line. It puts you in a que for a certain level (group of dungeons) (always enters on elite),
group fills and of they go into the random dungeon regardless if they are F2P etc.
> There is a level cap < to prevent runs from becoming cake walks. (a good guess, you can not que for a dungeon if you exceed it's normal level.)
no worries, you will have a full group. also no hirelings - no room for them anyways (pets are ok)

VIPs get a bonus if they use it.

Once the automated system has sent you 'pugging' into a particular dungeon it will
not send you into that same dungeon for a certain amount of time. (cool down)

Once you have pugged all the dungeons on a certain level, that Que level is closed until the cool down is past.
Prem. have a shorter cool down.
VIP have no cool down.

Allow players access to the que system via 'job boards' in the inns, or make an adventurer hiring 'office'.

LACK OF GROUPS FIXED

If F2P and Premium do not get access to dungeons they don't own, it will not work.
You HAVE to give them access, most players WILL NOT group with strangers unless you give them something in return.

BTW - this is generally how WOW and NWO do it.
Give them a bonus to que up.

A given - you can still solo dungeons or make your own groups like normal

[Cetus]

Having a constant buddy bonus, however small, will definitely encourage grouping. Make it 1-2% per player, and I think it will make people much more likely to post LFM's and invite groupmates.

[fatherpirate]

no need with the system I propose, just go to the adventurer hiring office and que up

[Letrii]

I think you highly overestimate the ease of coding your system into the spaghetti code of such an old game.

[Brutuscass]

I am sure that the developers have discussed this question more than once.
and they have put in a a few changes to encourage it.

so how do you do it?

It would really take 3 changes, one the developers might not like...or they might be ok with it.

1st (part that developers might not like) A F2P/Prem player willing to get into a
Que to launch as a group (pug only-not premade) should be allowed into dungeons he/she does
not own. ---- this is the 'bait'.

If a F2P player is willing to go with a pug and stay in it- they get access they don't
usually have. (they break group, they get kicked from dungeon automatically)

the rest is easy

Set up an auto group filler with a que line. It puts you in a que for a certain level (group of dungeons) (always enters on elite),
group fills and of they go into the random dungeon regardless if they are F2P etc.
> There is a level cap < to prevent runs from becoming cake walks. (a good guess, you can not que for a dungeon if you exceed it's normal level.)
no worries, you will have a full group. also no hirelings - no room for them anyways (pets are ok)

VIPs get a bonus if they use it.

Once the automated system has sent you 'pugging' into a particular dungeon it will
not send you into that same dungeon for a certain amount of time. (cool down)

Once you have pugged all the dungeons on a certain level, that Que level is closed until the cool down is past.
Prem. have a shorter cool down.
VIP have no cool down.

Allow players access to the que system via 'job boards' in the inns, or make an adventurer hiring 'office'.

LACK OF GROUPS FIXED

If F2P and Premium do not get access to dungeons they don't own, it will not work.
You HAVE to give them access, most players WILL NOT group with strangers unless you give them something in return.

BTW - this is generally how WOW and NWO do it.
Give them a bonus to que up.

A given - you can still solo dungeons or make your own groups like normal

Very nice consideration of the problem some are having, a form of raid planner could also be added to the social panel, where a planned raid could posted days in advance, stating a time window when the raid is planned for and allowing people to sign up and then log in, some more details might be needed to on this to avoid time waster and abuse, but that's just a quick thought off the top of my pounding head.... ahh the festive season

[fatherpirate]

hmm NOPE not biting on that.
Developers have recently stated that they can do almost ANYTHING (with in reason)
given a good enough reason to do it.
A dungeon Que is a STANDARD OPTION in most MMORPGs these days

Not going to accept the 'it is too hard' line.

[fatherpirate]

Very nice consideration of the problem some are having, a form of raid planner could also be added to the social panel, where a planned raid could posted days in advance, stating a time window when the raid is planned for and allowing people to sign up and then log in, some more details might be needed to on this to avoid time waster and abuse, but that's just a quick thought off the top of my pounding head.... ahh the festive season

thxs

[Brutuscass]

oh another, maybe a wish list of quests you want to run and group with option could be created, so instead of having to keep checking the LFM's on the social panel, an alter can flash up to inform you when someone post an LFM for something that you are wanting to run.


ADDED IN EDIT: To replace that silly thing coin that goes about the Head when they are standing in one spot while the rest just gallop past.

[Clemeit]

Queue systems are great, but only if the game natively supports them. It's my experience that in order for it to work effectively you need 1) great diversity in the player population and 2) lots of players.

How would the system work? Would it just throw the first 6 eligible players from the queue into a group? How would it decide on a difficulty? If it's always Elite, many players are going to pass unless the incentives are greater than that of Reaper. How would it balance the party? Would it select 1 healer, 1 CC, 1 tank, and 3 DPS? Or would it just go off of first-come first-serve basis in which you might be stuck in a party with no CC, or no DPS, or maybe no rogue in a quest that needs one? Maybe there aren't enough eligible players in your level range. Would you sit in the queue indefinitely, or would it allow for short-manning?

Unfortunately I don't believe a queue system would ever work for DDO. There are way too many variables. Incentives should instead be found elsewhere. Perhaps - as another poster suggested - a permanent buddy XP bonus. Or maybe designing content with highly lucrative optional objectives that require a full group to complete.

[Brutuscass]

And/Or: A general looking for players to group with selection could be added to the social panel.

Dwarf Barb lvl 6 with big chopper seeks like minded Adventurer for fun and frolics

Edit I know that you can already just post a blank LFM for the same thing, but I was thinking of a more permanent fixture, one that remains even when the player logs off, a sort of lonely adds, on login the player would get a reminder that they had an add up and a special you've got mail tab.

Player might have to make a little more effort to sell themselves but finding good running parties can be of great value.

Fixed running groups with open slots could also use this

[fatherpirate]

The basic idea would need refinement - of course
Some possible notes

The que system would not include reaper levels ... that would be a nightmare
to try and balance out. Reaper is strictly DIY

each que tier (group of similar difficulty heroic dungeons) would have a minimum
character level to join - to avoid power leveling or leeching. It would have a maximum
level for the same reason.

expansion dungeons would require the player to own that expansion (like sharn)
to join that que. You can save up coins and buy them in the store.

if a player in the pug goes Link dead for 5 minutes, or goes link dead 3 times...they are auto
dropped and other group members are free to replace them with a hireling if they have one handy.

There might be a raid version, but I am not familiar enough about raids to suggest how to do it.

my op is a LOOSE suggestion and the developers would likely make several changes to it.
I am very ok with this. They are the pros I am not.

my suggestion in a nut shell

Give F2P a reason (and the ability) to pug. (even content they do not own)
Make it easy to pug
= They will pug. A LOT.

Happy Holidays

[J-2]

The only time I group is with my girlfriend, though they are more like tutor sessions as she is still somewhat new.
I don't mind picking up someone who wants to take it down a notch.
She don't mind it if she gets things to kill and gets to enjoy playing without feeling rushed.

We have on occasion let others into our group for whatever reason.
I put up an LFM as a relaxed thorough run (breakables, optionals, etc.)
When we pick up peeps, I send them a tell explaining all that and ask them to take it slow.
They usually zerg to the end anyway being done and out when we are halfway through.
They usually leave us with dungeon alert as well.

Now we really only group to farm ingredients out of devil assault.
Part of the problem with grouping is that players feel the need to be greedy a-holes.

[fatherpirate]

my suggestion would not replace that kind of grouping,
my suggestion is an additional optional way to do it.

[myliftkk_v2]

For the "too hard" crowd. How the system selects the 6 players to allow into an instance isn't really "the game". That's a gate process that acts as a precursor to the game execution itself. In other words, one can snap a component in front of the module of dungeon execution with relative ease compared to changing the entire game platform. It's helps to think of software systems as nothing but a series of interlocking modules, which have cleavage points you can exploit to do things like a queue which don't effectively change any dungeon play code. In effective software design, you leave these modules loosely coupled so you can swap them in/out as needs arise and change without overhauling everything.

Some thoughts on the suggestions thus far:

If I am VIP I should be able to take any properly level banded pugger into any dungeon with me regardless of his status as long as the player is my group. That's both consistent with the concept of VIP, in the real world, and encourages the continued purchase of VIP.

There should be additional XP bonuses that reinforce group play (there are just rough back of the envelope suggestions based on the competing disincentives) for Elite and below.

A group size bonus that grants incremental XP bonuses based on human player party size, say +10/15/25/35/50%

A scaling addition to conquest bonus based on party size. Add a +16/+24/+34/+48/+60% to the conquest bonus (so 80% bonus for conquest on full quest with an existing conquest bonus - essentially 4 x current conquest).

An adventure completionist bonus that kicks in at 50/75/100 of optional completions (+20/+30/+50%), if the quest has 4 optionals or more. Maybe a flat 10% bonus if they have < 4 opts. Setting up another conquest like bonus, but for opt completion.

All in all, a ~160% bonus on XP for the combined above would to a lot to offset loss of first time bonus, and encourage joining a group to rerun a dungeon you may have already run, and would encourage even vets to hop into a group.

The rewards for opening LFMs need to be a factor greater than the time spent doing so, or potentially waiting. The rewards for joining, similar. If new players get VIP-granted temp access to dungeons, and are leveling faster, then that's a win win for them. If vets level a factor faster as a result of hauling along puggers, its a win for them. As someone who has lead a ton of pugs, I don't need a queue system so much as I need a system of strong incentives for new players to join instead of the system of disincentives now.

One has to remember Reaper is a huge disincentive. The minute I flip an LFM to R1, I've just dug a ditch between myself and almost every new player. So now I'm having to choose between chasing any Reaper points or not, because XP bonuses are declining returns since the introduction of the Reaper hamster wheel and the fact that Reaper juices everything. First time Reaper bonus is 95%, so to drop back down to Elite one will need a serious bump above that 95% . If I as a player who's more than R1 capable at all level ranges can get a 50% increase in my hamster wheel speed by setting reaper aside, then that's a strong pull to put down Reaper and come back to elite for pug fun (because I can get faster racial/ED/TR gains). If it's less than that, then I wager it's going to get ignored. Putting aside the argument of whether Reaper is or isn't the right configuration, the choice has to be too good to pass up for a lot of VIPs who are not fully capped to reopen a strong pug scene (which is what you need to get the new players into the content they don't yet own, but that you want them to buy).

It should be pretty obvious to not allow these bonuses to apply to Reaper difficulties as that wouldn't solve anything.

[myliftkk_v2]

Having a constant buddy bonus, however small, will definitely encourage grouping. Make it 1-2% per player, and I think it will make people much more likely to post LFM's and invite groupmates.

1-2% is meaningless with the XP curves. It won't incentive behavior outsider the behavior already taking place.

If one wants to induce a different behavior pattern one has to provide a equaling compelling incentive. Offering a to speed up one of the now many hamster wheel to a much higher rate of speed is a strong incentive. It also has the side benefit of preparing more players for the slower wheels.

[lyrecono]

Make a public apology for screwing up the game and screwing over the player-base. Correct all the mistakes made the last few years.

make all play-styles equally viable, instead of turning the game into an insta death fps.

Also do something about all the cheats, tricks and work arounds, etc so the gap between those that know and don't know diminishes.

Delete all the reaper trees, make past lives only stack once or delete those too, let elite and reaper mode take away ship buffs, allow a max of 50% fort on light armor, 75% fort on medium armor only and 100% fort on heavy armor, remove all fort bypass on mobs and bosses.

Stop the stat inflation or slow it down.

allow mobs in reaper to do the same ranged damage as melee damage.

Make gear good for all play-styles again. aka, get someone else to do it.

Sack whoever has the x-bow fetish at ssg.

This would make a nice start.

[SkyJ89]

I am sure that the developers have discussed this question more than once.
and they have put in a a few changes to encourage it.

so how do you do it?

It would really take 3 changes, one the developers might not like...or they might be ok with it.

1st (part that developers might not like) A F2P/Prem player willing to get into a
Que to launch as a group (pug only-not premade) should be allowed into dungeons he/she does
not own. ---- this is the 'bait'.

If a F2P player is willing to go with a pug and stay in it- they get access they don't
usually have. (they break group, they get kicked from dungeon automatically)

the rest is easy

Set up an auto group filler with a que line. It puts you in a que for a certain level (group of dungeons) (always enters on elite),
group fills and of they go into the random dungeon regardless if they are F2P etc.
> There is a level cap < to prevent runs from becoming cake walks. (a good guess, you can not que for a dungeon if you exceed it's normal level.)
no worries, you will have a full group. also no hirelings - no room for them anyways (pets are ok)

VIPs get a bonus if they use it.

Once the automated system has sent you 'pugging' into a particular dungeon it will
not send you into that same dungeon for a certain amount of time. (cool down)

Once you have pugged all the dungeons on a certain level, that Que level is closed until the cool down is past.
Prem. have a shorter cool down.
VIP have no cool down.

Allow players access to the que system via 'job boards' in the inns, or make an adventurer hiring 'office'.

LACK OF GROUPS FIXED

If F2P and Premium do not get access to dungeons they don't own, it will not work.
You HAVE to give them access, most players WILL NOT group with strangers unless you give them something in return.

BTW - this is generally how WOW and NWO do it.
Give them a bonus to que up.

A given - you can still solo dungeons or make your own groups like normal

I think things are not that simple. There are tons of option in creating a group ranging from difficulty level to level range. All are subject to player preference. If those preference are all spread out there won't be any match pop up either. Ever seen those normal difficulty group that nobody join? or those group that's off level range or bravery bonus? Yeah queing does not solve anything. The person who set normal difficulty will still be playing alone as long as no one set their difficulty to normal in the que system. Only this time no one know there are normal difficulty group ongoing because it does not show. Even if it get a match, it is equivalent to seeing a group that match your preference on the current grouping menu. It does not make any diffidence with our current system. Its just a waste of time to code when it does the same thing.

The only positive point I see about queing is that player does not need to keep looking at the grouping menu. But that's only just to press "O" and its not hard. Create such a complex coding for that convenience is not worth the time in my opinion.

Also, your system has more restriction than the generic one. I don't think its gonna be popular among the players. It also wont be popular among the developers too since it ruin their business model by making all the guest pass useless. I don't mean to gives such negative feedback but that how I see it.

[fatherpirate]

The restrictions I stated were added to help reduce the possibility of exploiting the system.
Those restrictions could be left out if the dungeon auto-leveled to match the group...that would be harder to code in.
or
The game temp changed the level of the players in the que to match the dungeon level ...even harder to code in.

Just restricting which dungeon levels you could que up for would be the easiest way to ensure the party is the proper level to make the dungeon a challenge
and not a cake walk or death trap. (reapers excluded)

also remember, this does not replace anything...it is just a new way to group up and pug.
totally optional

[Peter_Stauffenberg]

I think it would be nice if you could get something like Buddy tokens from each quest you complete. These tokens should be given independenty of difficulty, vip status and so on. However, they should be increased by the number of optionals you complete within a quest. So zerging through quests should yield less tokens than if you do optionals.

You could e. g. get the same number of tokens as the square of the number of players in the group. 3 players = 9 tokens. 6 players = 36 tokens. For raids you divide the number of players by 2 before making the square. 6 players = (6/2) * (6/2) = 9 tokens.

Buddy tokens could be used to purchase benefits from a vendor.

E. g. a chest drop bonus where you bump the drop chance of loot from that chest. You can have one benefit for regular chests and another for raid chests (raid chests more expensive). If you want to make it work for all players then you introduce something similar to chest blessing, but with the added effect of increasing the drop chance of named loot too.

Buddy tokens should be able to be traded in for e. g. comms of valor, comms of heroism, tokens of the twelve and so on. This gives alternate ways for players to farm for TR hearts.

You could even introduce some augments only available for purchase via buddy tokens. Maybe you can use buddy tokens to purchase items like horse feathers, horseshoes, sentient xp gems and so on as well.

The point is to give an easy way for everybody to get those bonuses where the actual playing time in a group gives you the bonus and not the game difficulty you're running on. That's good for new players because they have the same chance getting such bonuses for the time invested. They might like buying chest bonuses to get a better chance for loot because they might not be strong enough to run on elite or reaper.

Maybe buddy tokens can be used to purchase extra spins on the daily dice as well (gold and silver with different token prices).

The point is to make these tokens easy to obtain and with benefits both new players and veterans would want to have.

[SkyJ89]

The restrictions I stated were added to help reduce the possibility of exploiting the system.
Those restrictions could be left out if the dungeon auto-leveled to match the group...that would be harder to code in.
or
The game temp changed the level of the players in the que to match the dungeon level ...even harder to code in.

Just restricting which dungeon levels you could que up for would be the easiest way to ensure the party is the proper level to make the dungeon a challenge
and not a cake walk or death trap. (reapers excluded)

also remember, this does not replace anything...it is just a new way to group up and pug.
totally optional

Yes but from a player perspective, why even bother to use the system when it is more restrictive than the current one? When no one gonna use it, its a waste of time to code. Developer might as well place their resources on something more productive.