Make Duelist a universal tree and

[PsychoBlonde]

There is basically nothing about the Duelist tree that actually says "bard", but it'd make an excellent universal tree much like Harper and Falconry with some very minor modifications:

1.) add cha/dex/int to HIT when swashbuckling as well as to damage
2.) Remove Tavern Shanties (extra bard songs)
3.) change coupe de grace to either a.) use a different skill than Perform or b.) have a regular tactics DC or assassinate DC.
4.) change Low Blow and Slap in the Face to either a.) use a different skill than Perform or b.) have a regular tactics DC or assassinate DC.
5.) change Fast Movement to use something other than bard levels (and probably move it way up the tree)

This would open up some interesting build options for a LOT of classes.

So, what to do for a third Bard tree instead?

I submit the third bard tree could be: Arcane Trickster

Tree concept: ranged/caster tree with some stuff that can be useful for melee

1.) adds a piercing damage proc to spells and sneak attack dice for melee/ranged
2.) Allows use of Listen and Perform skills for auto-finding and disarming traps (call it "echolocation").
3.) Grants trapmaking feat and Improved Traps
4.) doubleshot/ranged alacrity
5.) multiselectors: grants rapid shot, rapid reload, and quickdraw feats OR grants TWF/ITWF/GTWF OR grants SWF/ISWF/GSWF OR grants Empower Spell, Heighten Spell, and Maximize Spell

Think it could be quite interesting and also open up quite a few options for single weapon fighting for a bunch of classes like warlock, favored soul, fighter, paladin, heck, whatever you like.

[Kutalp]

There is basically nothing about the Duelist tree that actually says "bard", but it'd make an excellent universal tree much like Harper and Falconry with some very minor modifications:

1.) add cha/dex/int to HIT when swashbuckling as well as to damage
2.) Remove Tavern Shanties (extra bard songs)
3.) change coupe de grace to either a.) use a different skill than Perform or b.) have a regular tactics DC or assassinate DC.
4.) change Low Blow and Slap in the Face to either a.) use a different skill than Perform or b.) have a regular tactics DC or assassinate DC.
5.) change Fast Movement to use something other than bard levels (and probably move it way up the tree)

This would open up some interesting build options for a LOT of classes.

So, what to do for a third Bard tree instead?

I submit the third bard tree could be: Arcane Trickster

Tree concept: ranged/caster tree with some stuff that can be useful for melee

1.) adds a piercing damage proc to spells and sneak attack dice for melee/ranged
2.) Allows use of Listen and Perform skills for auto-finding and disarming traps (call it "echolocation").
3.) Grants trapmaking feat and Improved Traps
4.) doubleshot/ranged alacrity
5.) multiselectors: grants rapid shot, rapid reload, and quickdraw feats OR grants TWF/ITWF/GTWF OR grants SWF/ISWF/GSWF OR grants Empower Spell, Heighten Spell, and Maximize Spell

Think it could be quite interesting and also open up quite a few options for single weapon fighting for a bunch of classes like warlock, favored soul, fighter, paladin, heck, whatever you like.

I share similar opinion about classes. I agree with some of these; anyhow I believe there shall be plain Rogue class turned in to universal tree. Almost all original builds used rogue specs, skills and used Human just for extra skills and Feat more than anything.

About other points, I am strongly against any(further) support/specialist class builds turned in to overpowered monsters. It is so dull and boring and dumps anything old and new developers built in time. Please let warriors be warriors, medics be medics, scientists be scientists supporting the team. Meanwhile classes can allways have subclasses through enhancements to psuedo multiclass or support 'skiller/feater' builds.

What happens when a single class is given all powers and to support fast TR mentality ?

There is two or three same almost full ready set builds now, when there was tens of different combinations and viable options before. No one needs team and if teams consist they re allways shaped out of the same ready cooked builds now. Overpowered, undying nuker/aoe caster and overpowered no miss undying 'laser gun' ranged builds...Please no more.


When you give players overpowered ready cooked builds. Game turns out boring and dull. Then they ll ask for harder. Other players that do not wish to play with overpowered builds will have bad time. Meanwhile the players that zerged through the content and asked for rebalancing the game for their exegarated build will leave the game after consuming enough. Because nothing will be enough for them. They will leave for other games. (and then most probably they will leave those games for newest games) This doesnt help the existing communtiy; nor the future of the game (and to sales)

This is a game killer fact, when the game has so much potential and long history. I do not wish to see it happen.



My humble love and respect to DDO community and to dear developers.