Two Things Are Killing This Game

[krimsonrane]

Not too long ago someone had a wild idea. they said.. we have low server populations and we're losing customers so lets separate the subscribers from premium and free members for a couple months and see how many more people we can lose by turning normal servers into ghost towns.

Then there's the other ongoing idea that marketing isn't necessary so that subscriptions increase. Instead we'll just further overcharge the remaining population for digital merchandise that has no value whatsoever beyond this game. You know. like charging $30+ dollars to temporarily unbind a single BTC item.

[Wizard1406]

True....DDO is more expensive than most other MMOs other than pay2win Asian MMOs.

I mean SWTOR always gets criticized for bad F2P model, but it offers base game and 2 expansions for free and sub once for a month (~13€) and you get ALL expansions and all content except cosmetics (races are purely cosmetic in SWTOR) and even then, (almost?) all cosmetics and race unlocks are unbound and sellable on auction house.


However - if your game has a tiny population, but you want to make regular content updates anyway you kinda HAVE to overprice the store otherwise it's not sustainable. Mostly cosmetic and VIP or buy2play based income stores only work on bigger populations (see SWTOR or GW2)

Marketing , newbie friendliness and new / returning player retention is key for a healthy game population. Apparently SSG doesn't care or doesn't have enough resources to do it? It takes more effort and marketing specialists (which they maybe don't even have anymore?) or excellent word of mouth and viral marketing for this. More effort and time than offering a new whale / dolphin item in the store.

What can players do to market DDO other than recommending this game to all friends and on all MMO discussion sites? Because of newbie unfriendliness the game is a very tough sell unless someone is a hardcore D&D fan and heavily prefers lobby MMOs over open world.

I'm not on social media so I have no clue about viral marketing, I only read that DDO sparks little if any new/returning player interest from facebook, twitch ,youtube and so on.

[Fenrisulven7]

"I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?"

Pull up one of the threads on p2w from say....2013. Search terms "pay play win" - use "thread titles only" setting. Aggregate the number of posters in either one of those. (there were 2 really long discussions on it) Then look at who those "same 12 people" you are referencing here. We are 12 of the 14 people left from that era in those discussions.

In other words, as usual, you can't back up your assertions with any actual proof. And you want me to do your homework for you.

by the same few people running interference for the company

LOL. I'm not running "interference", I have issues with SSG but I make my thoughts know privately, in a civil polite manner.

I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums about the whatever their latest gripe is. Like kids who are told they can't get the toy they want but go on and on and on about how unfair it is.

If you aren't getting your way, try interacting with the devs in a civil respectful manner, stop making everything so adversarial. It's not us against them.

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

[nokowi]

"I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?"



In other words, as usual, you can't back up your assertions with any actual proof. And you want me to do your homework for you.





LOL. I'm not running "interference", I have issues with SSG but I make my thoughts know privately, in a civil polite manner.

I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums about the whatever their latest gripe is. Like kids who are told they can't get the toy they want but go on and on and on about how unfair it is.

If you aren't getting your way, try interacting with the devs in a civil respectful manner, stop making everything so adversarial. It's not us against them.

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

I hope you get the irony of doing pretty much the exact same thing you are complaining about.

Please consider living up to your own expectations, and refraining from posting here, just like you are asking of others.

If you are unhappy with the forums, go somewhere else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame others into not posting what they believe to be legitimate posts.

[krimsonrane]

True....DDO is more expensive than most other MMOs other than pay2win Asian MMOs.

I mean SWTOR always gets criticized for bad F2P model, but it offers base game and 2 expansions for free and sub once for a month (~13€) and you get ALL expansions and all content except cosmetics (races are purely cosmetic in SWTOR) and even then, (almost?) all cosmetics and race unlocks are unbound and sellable on auction house.


However - if your game has a tiny population, but you want to make regular content updates anyway you kinda HAVE to overprice the store otherwise it's not sustainable. Mostly cosmetic and VIP or buy2play based income stores only work on bigger populations (see SWTOR or GW2)

Marketing , newbie friendliness and new / returning player retention is key for a healthy game population. Apparently SSG doesn't care or doesn't have enough resources to do it? It takes more effort and marketing specialists (which they maybe don't even have anymore?) or excellent word of mouth and viral marketing for this. More effort and time than offering a new whale / dolphin item in the store.

What can players do to market DDO other than recommending this game to all friends and on all MMO discussion sites? Because of newbie unfriendliness the game is a very tough sell unless someone is a hardcore D&D fan and heavily prefers lobby MMOs over open world.

I'm not on social media so I have no clue about viral marketing, I only read that DDO sparks little if any new/returning player interest from facebook, twitch ,youtube and so on.

If the player base is expected to handle all marketing then provide some resources and incentives for them to do so.

Also, I don't think it's just DDO overcharging. Anything D&D seems to be for people with money to burn only. Their official phone app game asks for more money than DDO does. $50 for a frickin new character card in a game that isn't even D&D. it's checkers with avatars.

[Fenrisulven7]

I hope you get the irony of doing pretty much the exact same thing you are complaining about.

Please consider living up to your own expectations, and refraining from posting here, just like you are asking of others.

You have a right to express your opinion, I have a right to express my opinion of your opinion.

ie. I'll stop complaining about your complaints once you stop complaining.

But it's amusing how you guys don't like what you do when it's done to you.

[Brutuscass]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

I have already covered the server merge and game dying fear before here https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...66#post6270366

so all I am going add is this

[IMG][/IMG]

[nokowi]

You have a right to express your opinion, I have a right to express my opinion of your opinion.

ie. I'll stop complaining about your complaints once you stop complaining.

But it's amusing how you guys don't like what you do when it's done to you.

You can feel free to complain about others complaining.

I'll point out that telling complainers to go away (your point) would logically include yourself.

I'll point out that "if you don't like it, go away" would logically include yourself.



I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to respect your advice if you can't follow it 3 seconds after you give it.

I have no problem with your posts, I love them.

You may not recognize why they are so great.

[Arellano]

I would like more people to play with on servers =).

[Odysseus2011]

You must not have played much in the last 4-6 weeks. There has been persistent and regular crippling lag that has been acknowledged by the Devs as an issue that is being worked on. I have played regularly since Ravenloft was released (near daily sessions) and the recent lag (since Hardcore server but more recently with the horse patch) has been like nothing I have experienced in the prior two years. It is not my rig, it is not my internet connection, it has nothing to do with how many times I have logged in or out different characters on my account. It is a problem on the server side or some other issue with their hardware or infrastructure hosting.

It has gotten so bad that I have considered scrapping my guild’s normal Sunday raid night that we’ve been doing for years. We have spent the last 5-7 weeks being unable to even move in some of the newer raids, specifically PN THTH and KT. As a result we only run these raids when the developers restart the severs because it’s to much of a ****show to run them at the end of a restart period.

[Carpone]

Without the actual numbers of the game, judging by LFM is an absolutely wasteful thought process.

LFMs are the best "numbers" we have for the game. The population on all servers took a huge hit while hardcore league was running. There were 450 people on at 7pm (my primetime playtimes). If no one is posting groups, and guilds are a ghost town, it's a downward spiral from there. DDO doesn't have the population to run the hardcore league server and the live servers simultaneously.

[Pyed-Pyper]

LFMs are the best "numbers" we have for the game. The population on all servers took a huge hit while hardcore league was running. There were 450 people on at 7pm (my primetime playtimes). If no one is posting groups, and guilds are a ghost town, it's a downward spiral from there. DDO doesn't have the population to run the hardcore league server and the live servers simultaneously.

450 = hc pop? your server's pop? other?

---

Aside from the above, a general observation: any pop count from the social tab can't be considered precise because of incognitos and multi-boxers. From an analysis position, considering those a wash is probably reasonable. (My opinion is the boxes outnumber the hiddens but that's a guess.) Regardless of how accurate that number is, I think Carpone's take-away is a valid analysis.

[Crazeyred]

LFMs are the best "numbers" we have for the game. The population on all servers took a huge hit while hardcore league was running. There were 450 people on at 7pm (my primetime playtimes). If no one is posting groups, and guilds are a ghost town, it's a downward spiral from there. DDO doesn't have the population to run the hardcore league server and the live servers simultaneously.

I play all servers and though I solo most of the time because of health issues...

[jkalten]

450 = hc pop? your server's pop? other?

---

Aside from the above, a general observation: any pop count from the social tab can't be considered precise because of incognitos and multi-boxers. From an analysis position, considering those a wash is probably reasonable. (My opinion is the boxes outnumber the hiddens but that's a guess.) Regardless of how accurate that number is, I think Carpone's take-away is a valid analysis.

Hopefully not HC 450 online is the bare minimum needed for a server to be pleasant to play. Experience taken from wow private servers and number of players online per faction numbers. (This is for LFM purposes)

If that 450 is from something other than Wayfinder I don't know how SSG justifies not merging and closing servers to their financial people.

[Kutalp]

Original warrior classes fell back alot in the last years. What players really like at fantasy games is dive in grab a stick and bash things when enjoying optional choices to complete quests in unique ways if we add the adventure part of the gaming sessions.


Simple examples:

Resisting the physical and magical skirmishes through passive innate abilites and spels or spell like abilites and damage soaking : Ranged 1 Melee 0

Caster1 Melee 0


Replenish self as quick as possible if severley injured: Ranged: with standing far away and running away to heal (better if multiclass specialist build Ranger-Artificer and whatsmore... with self healing abilites; which allready Absurd for definiton)

Caster: Just burst healing self and aoe others een if not meant to. Healing self and pet with negative healing double time if your team is also built of Shroud casters.

Melee: Jug pot...cooldown, wand ? oh wait Umd (not your skill) 'Hjeal meh !'


Damage : Caster and ranged 1km away up the edge of a mountain to the plains down there ' Kaa meee haa me haaa ! ' wave...Poof cleared the valley. (Dragon Ball parody)

Melee: 'Wait for it I am almost there !' chugging pots and clickies which rent class based waiting for cooldowns. No effective damage reduction allready half the hp before reaching the opponent. Keep chugging home boy, almost there. Six champs and thrashes while Boss holds the 'Warrior' no chug pots, no damage soaking a few swings from weapon...Buh bye...



Non caster and non specialist, non semi mele/semi ranged characters need double hit points and innate damage soaking abilites (more % and PRR/MRR) against damaging spells and physical attacks. Just to endure it, since they cant and shall not self heal fast;but last longer without healing. (Combining stalward/and or paladin and barb and heal amp and then non warrior wizard and artificer for more HP and Armor class is very funny...And then adding rejuvenating cocoon from destiny and silver flame pots is just hillarious...Why dont casters or ranged/caster aberrants dont need those when front liners melt away and have to multiclass in to other classes ?)


I enjoyed playing all classes but I think only a few builds are truly viable this era. As a result this is pushing people to corner. Now if players are learning the ropes new and see their favorite dream builds not working would they think it is worth the time ?


My humble n00b cents.

[nokowi]

Hopefully not HC 450 online is the bare minimum needed for a server to be pleasant to play. Experience taken from wow private servers and number of players online per faction numbers. (This is for LFM purposes)

If that 450 is from something other than Wayfinder I don't know how SSG justifies not merging and closing servers to their financial people.

They had a troublesome server merger in LOTRO, and since resource management dictates that DDO is largely a copy of what that same team is doing for their bigger game LOTRO, they are unlikely to invest those resources here.

The past LOTRO producers letters have been very similar to the DDO producers letters if you want to see the similarity in design. I haven't checked to see if LOTRO has a hardcore server, but it would not surprise me if it did.

[Kutalp]

They had a troublesome server merger in LOTRO, and since resource management dictates that DDO is largely a copy of what that same team is doing for their bigger game LOTRO, they are unlikely to invest those resources here.

The past LOTRO producers letters have been very similar to the DDO producers letters if you want to see the similarity in design. I haven't checked to see if LOTRO has a hardcore server, but it would not surprise me if it did.

I used to be an active player at LOTRO aswell in the past. Halfling wanderer/craftsman etc...Good times... Anyhow I prefer DDO. The same issues are also there. So no surprise. Almost all mmos also have similar issues lately. Players seem to fast consume and immigrate between games more than ever this era.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=merge

[nokowi]

I used to be an active player at LOTRO aswell in the past. Halfling wanderer/craftsman etc...Good times... Anyhow I prefer DDO. The same issues are also there. So no surprise. Almost all mmos also have similar issues lately. Players seem to fast consume and immigrate between games more than ever this era.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=merge

I'd be curious to see if/how the LOTRO and DDO player bases differ, and if issues with lag happen at the same times. I suspect that most lag is being introduced by the dev team (DDO specific), given that years of effort haven't really improved anything. This despite people having 10x the bandwidth, and several times the computing power.

[lyrecono]

I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?

I don't need to imagine - every time I log onto the forums I get the same 12 people who won't shut up about it.

But tell me "what could have been". Name an MMO better than DDO. Then explain why you aren't playing there...

You missed the meaning of the post (and video), the problem being you're in the middle of it and lack an objective viewpoint.
Loose the emotional attachment and compare the number of people now with that of the era when the cap was 20.

As for the blocked people, go take a strawl through the lamania forums, the last 6 years, every update we seem to lose 1 or 2 people who get ignored to the point of frustration.
As for the mmo i'm playing now, it's called "real life". Working on my stats , social life, achievements and family, seems to be more rewarding then ddo.
Quitting ddo felt like quiting an abusive relationship with a cult memeber. Best thing i have done in a long while.
As for improving ddo, for the last 5 years people haver opted plenty of good ideas,if you haven't picked up on them by now, why bother asking, doesn't seem like you're intrested in the slightest.

"I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?"

In other words, as usual, you can't back up your assertions with any actual proof. And you want me to do your homework for you.
LOL. I'm not running "interference", I have issues with SSG but I make my thoughts know privately, in a civil polite manner.

I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums about the whatever their latest gripe is. Like kids who are told they can't get the toy they want but go on and on and on about how unfair it is.

If you aren't getting your way, try interacting with the devs in a civil respectful manner, stop making everything so adversarial. It's not us against them.

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

Many of us have stopped playing ddo (and paying for it).
The actual bile is spewed in places where a higher level of free speech exists, the conversation here is not to change devs minds, we have been incapable of doing so for a long time now, it does however show the neutral people who are honnest and who are willing to show a blind eye, for profit or some undeserved emotional connection.

I'd be curious to see if/how the LOTRO and DDO player bases differ, and if issues with lag happen at the same times. I suspect that most lag is being introduced by the dev team (DDO specific), given that years of effort haven't really improved anything. This despite people having 10x the bandwidth, and several times the computing power.

With the increase in cpu/gpu/ram/other pc hardware and internet speeds, i assumed the lag was caused merely by incompentence and poor choice of server host.
Is there a possibility people are getting their bandwith squeezed on ssg's end?

[frepla]

"I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?"



In other words, as usual, you can't back up your assertions with any actual proof. And you want me to do your homework for you.





LOL. I'm not running "interference", I have issues with SSG but I make my thoughts know privately, in a civil polite manner.

I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums about the whatever their latest gripe is. Like kids who are told they can't get the toy they want but go on and on and on about how unfair it is.

If you aren't getting your way, try interacting with the devs in a civil respectful manner, stop making everything so adversarial. It's not us against them.

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

Your post is really coming off as rude, and Chai did not deserve these "mild bashings". Also if you joined in 2019, yet you claim to have returned to the game after a couple of years, *ahem*, may I ask why not use your original forum account? Perhaps, erm, you had some infractions piling up in a bad manner? Pun intended.
Also you say: "I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums": you have any data on that? Like statistics and such? I mean I complained about some things, then praised some other things, so I guess i would not fall into this "bad group"?

But to answer one of the core point of yours: how would server merge solve anything? There is plenty of lag even when a server is nowhere near full (I suspect that the bank and ASAH exploit fixes/tracking/preventive mechanisms have a great deal to do with lag, so if the devs wanna fix something, maybe they should check those things or revamp containers, banks, and auction/shard houses) so how would merging servers reduce lag, by throwing together a whole lot of people, using banks, doing raids, etc?