Was excited to come back..but the wall is real

[OfElectricMen]

Few other points...No one likes being carried...knowing they are barely helping.

I'm okay with it.

[weaponomega1969]

Just play and earn your rewards and stop hating on those who have and the AMAZING game!

[janave]

[Jaysun]

so you blame your "friends" beeing gatekeeping pricks on the devs?

Im not in a guild, I was speaking in general. Seems I'm not the only one that thinks there is an issue.

I wanted to throw in another solution, Once you are capped 20% of your XP earned from Epic/Leg content goes into another XP bar that goes toward heroic experience. Once it is full you can do an Epic TR followed by a heroic or racial TR. This would allow people to stay at 30 and play with their friends instead of disappearing for a week to go level from 1-20 all over again.

[Iriale]

Im not in a guild, I was speaking in general. Seems I'm not the only one that thinks there is an issue.

I wanted to throw in another solution, Once you are capped 20% of your XP earned from Epic/Leg content goes into another XP bar that goes toward heroic experience. Once it is full you can do an Epic TR followed by a heroic or racial TR. This would allow people to stay at 30 and play with their friends instead of disappearing for a week to go level from 1-20 all over again.

SSG will never implement this, because it would kill its Otto boxes. What I say they could do, because although reduce the grind for a single character would help the alts to become popular again, and that means that the grind, in the background, does not end and its sales model is not seen affected.

I do not say that the revenue model of DDO is healthy, because it is not, but that will not change, so we would have to look at a solution that will not change their sales. What you propose is like a free Otto --- they never will want that. What I propose is that the alts become viable again (and that additionally means more inventory, tomes, more raiding, etc)... that we may see someday… when the devs get their heads out of the sand and discover that there really is a problem. At the moment it seems they believe there is no problem.

[Jaysun]

Just play and earn your rewards and stop hating on those who have and the AMAZING game!

Not once am I hating on those who have put in the hard work. As I said I have done over 25 past lives...but the racial TR's which are new drastically improve characters and anyone can see that (each racial point is like earning a free feat or better). If it was a month or two of work I would mostly be silent but it's not...and that is just one character, alts don't stand a chance (unless you can no life the game).

Look I get it...many people put in a TON of work on their character and they are proud, but once there is no one to raid with or play with because the gap is so large that even returning vets pass on the game because of how hard it is, then even the uber people will be asking for a change because there is no one to play with...but by then it would be to late. This game is never going to have some thriving playerbase that allows people to have full groups for anything they want at anytime, but it would be smart to keep the playerbase it has and maybe have some new people join up before the gap is just unreachable.

[LOOON375]

The "wall" isn't as big as you seem to think it is.
I took a two year break. During that break, reaper and Ravenloft was released.
I jumped right into to running reaper with my guildmates.
Sure, I had to adjust my playstyle, but I was able to make it work.
None of my toons has a single racial past life. It is not a must have and Im speaking from experience.
And one thing that the 3 month hardcore server proved, is that you can be viable and successful
with a first life toon running the hardest content......with ZERO past life anything.
Don't forget to have fun

[Jaysun]

SSG will never implement this, because it would kill its Otto boxes. What I say they could do, because although reduce the grind for a single character would help the alts to become popular again, and that means that the grind, in the background, does not end and its sales model is not seen affected.

I do not say that the revenue model of DDO is healthy, because it is not, but that will not change, so we would have to look at a solution that will not change their sales. What you propose is like a free Otto --- they never will want that. What I propose is that the alts become viable again (and that additionally means more inventory, tomes, more raiding, etc)... that we may see someday… when the devs get their heads out of the sand and discover that there really is a problem. At the moment it seems they believe there is no problem.

Yeah I agree, that makes sense. Ill adjust the idea then. Same idea, you gain experience at 30% of your epic/legendary experience. This goes into a new bar and at the end of it you get an item that allows you a racial or heroic TR (start there..if the system works expand it to iconic or epic). BUT this only works for alts. Can not be used on main characters. The way they determine this is the completion feat. You must have the feat in your build at max level to obtain the experience. This way people can't cheat the system and find some easy speedy way to max out their main....but this system would motivate MANY to go get the feat on their main to bring their alts up faster.

I think that could work and it would create more revenue for their game. I buy Otto boxes from time to time but It never passes my thought process to get one for an alt. So alts will now become revenue for SSG because people will have reason to get them geared/specced up.

[janave]

The "wall" isn't as big as you seem to think it is.

I am on a different track here, about 99% sureness that I could raise my comfort zone from R1-2 to R3-4 on almost all my current builds using the Race APs, most of these characters have few PL feats but good gear. A very tough choice between another Class/Uni T4 or full HAMP lines..

[SerPounce]

Yeah I agree, that makes sense. Ill adjust the idea then. Same idea, you gain experience at 30% of your epic/legendary experience. This goes into a new bar and at the end of it you get an item that allows you a racial or heroic TR (start there..if the system works expand it to iconic or epic). BUT this only works for alts. Can not be used on main characters. The way they determine this is the completion feat. You must have the feat in your build at max level to obtain the experience. This way people can't cheat the system and find some easy speedy way to max out their main....but this system would motivate MANY to go get the feat on their main to bring their alts up faster.

I think that could work and it would create more revenue for their game. I buy Otto boxes from time to time but It never passes my thought process to get one for an alt. So alts will now become revenue for SSG because people will have reason to get them geared/specced up.

As said, if you're struggling to contribute in endgame content it's unlikely that the primary problem is a lack of past lives. Yes, they're nice, but most of this is a perception issue. People see others doing things they can't do and assume it's because they have some hard bonuses that are unavailable to them. But the gap in effectiveness of engame players is not primarily about past lives. Particularly if you've already grabbed the low hanging fruit. Fine tune your build so it's effective and it does what you want. Learn to play that build well (not just be a "good player" generally, but learn to maximize the effectiveness or your particular abilities). Learn the quests and the best tactics to complete them. Work out the optimal gear set and acquire it (not just equip stuff that looks good, but get out the planner or a spreadsheet and figure out what checks the most boxes). Also reaper points are huge, each point is worth about as much as the average PL (some more some less).

I did legendary madness of crowed on r4 on hardcore on a first lifer without full destines, sunrise on r3, and dozen+ other legendary quests on r1-2. All solo. And I'm not even a very good player. Your 25 PL character on live can do legendary r10 in a group if you tune it up.

And you can work on building up PLs on a second character while you play at cap with the other. IMO two characters is the ideal number (+any dedicated group characters): one at cap, and one on the TR train. Swap them once a year or so. That way you're never "disappearing" from the endgame scene. And a lot of the stuff you acquire will be BtA.

[Fivetigers33]

As I said I have done over 25 past lives...but the racial TR's which are new drastically improve characters and anyone can see that (each racial point is like earning a free feat or better). If it was a month or two of work I would mostly be silent but it's not...and that is just one character, alts don't stand a chance (unless you can no life the game).

In this thread there have been comparisons made to other MMOs where basically you get to max level, get the gear, and you are more or less the same as everyone else. Players then get to level 30 in DDO, get what they think is decent gear, and the only reason they can think of when they still can't keep up are massive amounts of past lives that other players have. This thought process is horribly flawed.

First DDO's combat is unlike most other MMOs. It takes more player skill than simple tab-target auto attack games. Having to physically dodge attacks/spells, and get in and out of range to land attacks is a whole beast all on it's own. Some players are good at it, some aren't. Just the way it is.

Second, lots of other MMOs have very obvious BIS gear, that is often class restricted, making end game gearing fairly simple. DDO is a giant gear buffet where you can help yourself to whatever you want, to your benefit or your detriment. Successfully gearing your toon is a fine art.

Third is build. Most other MMOs offer very little flexibility or variance within classes, to the point that there is virtually no difference between different players that are max level in the same class. The limitless build possibilities in DDO means that some builds are awesome, while others are godawful, and there is a whole spectrum of builds between the two extremes. Self awareness of where your build falls on the spectrum is something a lot of players just don't have.

Fourth would be game knowledge. This is knowing what to do when. Knowing what works and what to expect. Which enemies hit really hard, what are the low saves that should be targeted, knowing not to stand in any circles that a mob puts on the ground, etc. Some players just don't get it, while other players make mediocre builds over perform.

Past lives, while they do have an impact, are just the icing on the cake. 99% of the time they are not the reason you died or do horrible dps. Players often don't know that they are in a poor build or are poorly geared, or they aren't willing to accept that other players are simply better than them at DDO (combat/game knowledge). The blame almost always falls on lack of past lives, and is almost always misplaced.

[LOOON375]

I am on a different track here, about 99% sureness that I could raise my comfort zone from R1-2 to R3-4 on almost all my current builds using the Race APs, most of these characters have few PL feats but good gear. A very tough choice between another Class/Uni T4 or full HAMP lines..

Of course racial past lives can be a huge benefit, but they are hardly necessary.
Just like completionist. It's beneficial but hardly necessary.
Same with maxed out destinies. Beneficial, but not necessary.

[TedSandyman]

Just play and earn your rewards and stop hating on those who have and the AMAZING game!

In my opinion, and yes it is only my opinion, this is exactly the sentiment that is (has?) killed this game.

The wall is real. I don't have 1000s of hours to devote to this game every year and I don't feel relevant anymore and I haven't even taken a break. I have always, for the entire time I have played this game, been behind the curve. I have always been pretty good, but never able to play the hardest content solo by myself. And once I get to that level, the bar gets raised again.

But I have always held my own in a party and been happy with my contribution to the party. Occasionally i would be in a party, enjoying myself, then an UBER player would join, sprint to the end, killing everything.

I would simply drop the party and find a new one that was more my speed. Live and let live was my motto.

But the curve has now left me far behind and I am too exhausted to even try to catch up. After 9 years I CANT keep up anymore. I cant kill anything because it takes me four swings with my axe and everyone else in the party kills everything in one shot. I run to engage the mobs and they are dead before I get there with all the ranged players.

Every party I join is the same. Overpowered players kill everything nearly instantly. I can't play with a party unless I just want to run along and wait for the RXP at the end.

For some, that's all that matters. Get more powerful so you can kill everything easier, so the game is less challenging (and then complain about being bored).

Reaper was supposed to be more challenging and supposed to force group play. It did at the beginning. I enjoyed reaper at the beginning. But now it exactly the same as before reaper. Heal yourself. Single superstars killing everything. No one heals. No one depends on others.

Keep up or get out and shut up complaining if you don't like it.

My advice to returning players is to find the two or three single builds that are the only ones possible to play anymore, and play those.

Dual crossbow inquisitive with the exact mix of classes to maximize insta-kill and keep with that until you get enough RXP and gear to be able to branch out a little more.

And if you don't want to do that, then this game probably isn't for you anymore.

You may enjoy the hardcore server which tends to wipe out those extreme differences. Almost everyone I talk to or I read on the forums really seems to enjoy hardcore. But for some reason most of those people are AGAINST anything that would bring any kind of balance back to the permanent servers.

[Jaysun]

Past lives, while they do have an impact, are just the icing on the cake. 99% of the time they are not the reason you died or do horrible dps. Players often don't know that they are in a poor build or are poorly geared, or they aren't willing to accept that other players are simply better than them at DDO (combat/game knowledge). The blame almost always falls on lack of past lives, and is almost always misplaced.

I disagree on this point. 3 wizard and 3 Favored soul = 9 spell pen. Then the DC's from Sorc. That alone is 12 FEATS. Imagine if you were able to make a new character and for the first 12 levels you were able to add a bonus feat.

I would agree that 10 light power or MRR would be icing but DC's/Spell Pen/Doublestrike/Crit change/Doubleshot...these are what seperates MANY classes from others. Then throw in 14 racial AP points. For assaimer alone those points allow you to keep your max build how you want it but then get 7 charges of heal...3 spell pen. 40-60 Amp...and a gear that gives 10% health and 10 ppr/mrr. If that is considered icing...then you can keep the cake.

[LurkingVeteran]

In this thread there have been comparisons made to other MMOs where basically you get to max level, get the gear, and you are more or less the same as everyone else. Players then get to level 30 in DDO, get what they think is decent gear, and the only reason they can think of when they still can't keep up are massive amounts of past lives that other players have. This thought process is horribly flawed.

First DDO's combat is unlike most other MMOs. It takes more player skill than simple tab-target auto attack games. Having to physically dodge attacks/spells, and get in and out of range to land attacks is a whole beast all on it's own. Some players are good at it, some aren't. Just the way it is.

Second, lots of other MMOs have very obvious BIS gear, that is often class restricted, making end game gearing fairly simple. DDO is a giant gear buffet where you can help yourself to whatever you want, to your benefit or your detriment. Successfully gearing your toon is a fine art.

Third is build. Most other MMOs offer very little flexibility or variance within classes, to the point that there is virtually no difference between different players that are max level in the same class. The limitless build possibilities in DDO means that some builds are awesome, while others are godawful, and there is a whole spectrum of builds between the two extremes. Self awareness of where your build falls on the spectrum is something a lot of players just don't have.

Fourth would be game knowledge. This is knowing what to do when. Knowing what works and what to expect. Which enemies hit really hard, what are the low saves that should be targeted, knowing not to stand in any circles that a mob puts on the ground, etc. Some players just don't get it, while other players make mediocre builds over perform.

Past lives, while they do have an impact, are just the icing on the cake. 99% of the time they are not the reason you died or do horrible dps. Players often don't know that they are in a poor build or are poorly geared, or they aren't willing to accept that other players are simply better than them at DDO (combat/game knowledge). The blame almost always falls on lack of past lives, and is almost always misplaced.

An equally common human fallacy to blaming shortcomings on circumstance, is to take full credit for successes when they actually could be attributed to circumstance. The guy said he was a returning old timer, tone down those l2p replies.

There is absolutely a huge gap in DDO between a 100 PL/RP grinder those with no or few. The one-shots are real, just look at the steady stream of VIP deaths on the HC server. Did they suddenly lose their skills when they switched servers, or was it just much harder without the crutch? The power difference is smaller at cap, but no other MMO I am aware of has this kind of "hidden" level advantage. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think PLs/RPs should result in a level adjustment similar to regular D&D rules. Some races had higher attributes, but you paid for it by being 1-4 levels behind. This will level the playing field in heroics, giving mainly an advantage at cap where the differences are smaller. Currently the PL grind actually becomes easier the more you play it, which is the opposite of how games usually progress.

[TedSandyman]

In this thread there have been comparisons made to other MMOs where basically you get to max level, get the gear, and you are more or less the same as everyone else. Players then get to level 30 in DDO, get what they think is decent gear, and the only reason they can think of when they still can't keep up are massive amounts of past lives that other players have. This thought process is horribly flawed.

First DDO's combat is unlike most other MMOs. It takes more player skill than simple tab-target auto attack games. Having to physically dodge attacks/spells, and get in and out of range to land attacks is a whole beast all on it's own. Some players are good at it, some aren't. Just the way it is.

Second, lots of other MMOs have very obvious BIS gear, that is often class restricted, making end game gearing fairly simple. DDO is a giant gear buffet where you can help yourself to whatever you want, to your benefit or your detriment. Successfully gearing your toon is a fine art.

Third is build. Most other MMOs offer very little flexibility or variance within classes, to the point that there is virtually no difference between different players that are max level in the same class. The limitless build possibilities in DDO means that some builds are awesome, while others are godawful, and there is a whole spectrum of builds between the two extremes. Self awareness of where your build falls on the spectrum is something a lot of players just don't have.

Fourth would be game knowledge. This is knowing what to do when. Knowing what works and what to expect. Which enemies hit really hard, what are the low saves that should be targeted, knowing not to stand in any circles that a mob puts on the ground, etc. Some players just don't get it, while other players make mediocre builds over perform.

Past lives, while they do have an impact, are just the icing on the cake. 99% of the time they are not the reason you died or do horrible dps. Players often don't know that they are in a poor build or are poorly geared, or they aren't willing to accept that other players are simply better than them at DDO (combat/game knowledge). The blame almost always falls on lack of past lives, and is almost always misplaced.

There are a lot of choices, nearly an infinite amount. And almost all of those choices are BAD.
There is an extremely small amount of variation at the high end as far as classes and weapons.
The solution is to look up the few good builds and only play those builds.
I believe this is what you are saying.
If you do NOT know the best builds and combinations, you are a bad player.
If you do know the best builds and combinations, you are a good player.
Why are you playing one of those bad builds dummy? You deserve to be bad.
Do you for some weird reason think this game should be balanced in a way that you can play a wide range of characters and gear and have them relevant? Well then you are just a bad player.
How dare you assume that since there are many, many choices that you actually can use those choices.
The developers give you those choices to distract you and confuse you. Only a few are viable. The others are worthless and meaningless.
The infinite options is what draws me to this game.
The fact that a large portion of those options are garbage and that the garbage portion is growing is what is bothersome to me.
But what do I know, I'm just a bad player.

[nokowi]

In my opinion, and yes it is only my opinion, this is exactly the sentiment that is (has?) killed this game.

More generally, the lack of an ability for the devs or player base to cater to different preferences is what limits DDO.

In a simple thread where people could be supportive of the OP's preferences, the opposite happens, because we all know DDO can only design for a very limited range of preferences, and we all know meeting some other players preference will likely hurt your own.

Much better design choices would allow people to be supportive of others.

[SkyJ89]

I'm sure the game has all level of player. If u have fallen behind, yet u don't wanna feel getting carried, find a group that has similar level with u and grow with them. If u still insist on playing with your old group, then just get carried for the time being till u are strong enough to be useful. Its much faster to progress by getting carried. U just need to be patient.

[nokowi]

Its much faster to progress by getting carried.

This is poor design.

People should be rewarded for playing the game in a meaningful and interactive way, not for getting carried.

[Mglaxix]

This is poor design.

People should be rewarded for playing the game in a meaningful and interactive way, not for getting carried.

They can that is why there are different difficulty settings