plenty of epic past lives - now how to configure twists

[Nickodeamous]

Hi there,

I am coming to a point in my epic past lives where I will be able to have (at lev 30) a 4-3-2-1-1 twist level combo. Currently, I have the following set-up and I would like to hear from my fellow monks on what they think I should do. (BTW, I have 5 additional racial AP points)

Current Twists at level 30
4 - sense weakness (helpless damage)
3 - Grim Precision (fort bypass)
1 - Legendary tactics (+6 tactics)
1 - brace for impact (40% fort)
1 - unearthly reactions (+6 reflex)

I also have 10 points in my ninja spy tree so that can take melee power boost (for my prowess sentient duality wraps) The other 2 points above the 8 needed to cap this ability are currently spent in boosting dodge cap

I put 26 points in falcon to get deadly instincts and no mercy, so my DCs are the following with the setup above:

Stunning fist - 126
QP - 101
tomb of jade - 132

Now, here is my $20k question. Can I drop any of those tier 1 twists and replace it with a tier 2 twist from LD for the Melee power boost when the following combo opens up: 4-3-2-1-1

My plan would be to drop ninja spy as I do not need the melee power boost, and put all of my AP points into aasimar to get to ascendant bond (fallen), which is a pretty nice Melee boost. My thinking is the following for the twists:

Current Twists at level 30
4 - sense weakness (helpless damage)
3 - Grim Precision (fort bypass)
2 - Melee Power Boost - LD (+30 for 20 seconds)
1 - brace for impact (40% fort)
1 - unearthly reactions (+6 reflex)

The reason I think this is ok, is that with deadly instincts, my DCs will only drop by 6, so they will be

Stunning fist - 120
QP - 95
tomb of jade - 126

This is still elite enough to jade reapers in R10. I discovered this when I accidently left fire sheath as a twist (I replaced legendary tactics with this during a THTH raid). Now, its only up to how many fate points I need. I am 1 short to make the 4-3-2-1-1 combo above, but I am going to get it after this 1-30 life (I have 27 epic past lives and you get a bonus point every 4).

So, what do you guys think? any downside with this approach?

Thanks,
Nico

[Kodwraith]

Do you really need brace for impact? That's be the first one I'd drop. Knowing you you have insane saves, so picking up things that make for no-fail saves seems a better idea.


What's your gear look like at this point? I tried to put together a Sharn layout and hit some issues trying to figure out how fit in the Family set and still get everything else in.

[Nickodeamous]

Do you really need brace for impact? That's be the first one I'd drop. Knowing you you have insane saves, so picking up things that make for no-fail saves seems a better idea.


What's your gear look like at this point? I tried to put together a Sharn layout and hit some issues trying to figure out how fit in the Family set and still get everything else in.

Hey there,

thanks for the reply. I do have insane saves Reflex 100+, other 2 are 85+. anyway, here is my current setup. I shot you my dream setup in a DM, so check that out as well. I think this hits everything, but I could be missing stuff. the key is the CC gear and slavers to fill those holes for sheltering and melee alacrity.

Head: umbar Brim
Goggles: collective sight (Con/ins wis)
Necklace: Family sigil - sharn set piece 1
trinket: melee alacrity/parrying/ins dex +7
cloak: mantle of fury
belt: animated rope
ring 1: taer wisdom artifact (4 filigrees)
gloves: hammerfist sharn set piece 2
boots: slavers resist/sheltering/hide/qual wis
Ring 2: Celestial Ruby
bracers: moonrise
clothing: turncoat sharn set piece 3

wraps: duality (8 filigrees)/ swap LGS +++ (for legendary affirmation +1k temp HPs)
GMOF

I only have 1 set, but I have a nice balance of saves/dodge/melee power

[psykopeta]

not 100% sure but i would say twisting melee power from LD is wasting a twist, sense weakness and grim precision are my favourite ones so i won't touch these 2, but mp... iirc you gotta take it in your enhancement trees to reach higher t's

[DrawingGuy]

Replying to old threads as I'm playing again and bored at work.

Twists I consider situational.

T4:
- Sense Weakness: as you have a fair amount of CC and should be running with CC in harder content, the best DPS boost you can have.
- Symmetric Strikes: Whenever CC will be rare (such as raids), this is the superior DPS option. You may also want to consider 4/4 splits to load both.

T3:
- Balanced Attacks: a free CC with a helpless flag. More accuracy never hurts either! This is actually one of my favorite T3s.
- Meld Into Darkness: this is an "oh kitten" button that can save you in high reapers or let you bypass trash to get to a door.
- Grim Precision: With Expose Weakness (well worth 1ap), gear, deconstruction, Precision, and other debuffs, this is little more than a 3% dodge bypass. I forgo this on my Monk.

T2:
- Improved Combat Expertise: If you roll CE rather than Precision, this is a cheap 20 PRR
- Acute Instincts: 2 WIS and +6 to a ton of skills. If you are rolling in Precision and have Primal Scream or other rage access, this boosts all DCs (QP and Frog being key) by 1.
- Hail of Blows - DPS filler outside of GMoF
- Run With Wind - DPS filler outside of GMoF

T1:
- Rejuvenation Cocoon: the anti-party mechanic of the epic defenses feat giving this touch range was a kick the teeth, but still quite useful while soloing or keeping random plugs alive.
- Legendary Tactics: a must outside of LD if you care about QP
- Primal Scream: +5 to STR and CON is nothing to sneeze at, and couples well with Acute Instincts. Though they fixed keeping rages going into CE after being buffed, so only for those that roll Precision.
- Stealthy: While you no longer need this to boost Ethereal, it is still +6 to all your bird attacks. Dont underestimate two extra helpless clickies and a massive AOE blind (+50% fort bypass).
- Energy Sheath: 50% absorb to a source is a big deal in several Raids.
- A Dance of Flowers: Good twist for anything outside of GMoF.

If I'm running GMoF, it is for the DCs + Lotus/EIN and I dont run Action Boost twists. There is already so many options you are already having to situationally pick. If you are in a situation you don't need the DC twists, you should probably be in LD and twisting from GMoF for superior DPS.

[magaiti]

Adding to the post above:

T4:
- Martial Hymn: Whenever CC will be rare and you can't benefit from Symmetric Strikes

T2:
- Unstoppable Fury: +9 attack for high skulls, if you have access to rage

T1:
- First Harmonic Chord: passive +3 attack/damage, +9 usp

[Quikster]

Adding to the post above:

T4:
- Martial Hymn: Whenever CC will be rare and you can't benefit from Symmetric Strikes

T2:
- Unstoppable Fury: +9 attack for high skulls, if you have access to rage

T1:
- First Harmonic Chord: passive +3 attack/damage, +9 usp

Pretty sure this is a punch monk. CC included.

[DrawingGuy]

Adding to the post above:

T4:
- Martial Hymn: Whenever CC will be rare and you can't benefit from Symmetric Strikes

T2:
- Unstoppable Fury: +9 attack for high skulls, if you have access to rage

T1:
- First Harmonic Chord: passive +3 attack/damage, +9 usp

All fine options, and there are quite a few others such as +6 to saves (a sour point that there are better T1 saves than GMoF has, where theirs is higher in the tree hurting AP spreads). But this is more of a shortlist of what I use on my Monk.

A different debate that applies is Prowess filigrees. They are worth it in LD, but outside of that the buff only has 33% uptime. It averages to only ~1 MP more than straight MP spreads (or less MP than Suckerpunch/OAM with Raid filigree). And that is before considering attack/damage and proc setups that are better DPS even at MP deficits. The action boost portion comes at the cost of weapon and buff flexibility. And the set comes with no utility. Min-maxing would involve having a duplicate weapon with Prowess and a main with better filigrees, but I find that to be tedious... especially with wanting to switch in 1k temp and debuff weapons when needed already. Unless you live in LD, chuck Prowess and relieve the requirement of boosts outside of LD.

[Nickodeamous]

All fine options, and there are quite a few others such as +6 to saves (a sour point that there are better T1 saves than GMoF has, where theirs is higher in the tree hurting AP spreads). But this is more of a shortlist of what I use on my Monk.

A different debate that applies is Prowess filigrees. They are worth it in LD, but outside of that the buff only has 33% uptime. It averages to only ~1 MP more than straight MP spreads (or less MP than Suckerpunch/OAM with Raid filigree). And that is before considering attack/damage and proc setups that are better DPS even at MP deficits. The action boost portion comes at the cost of weapon and buff flexibility. And the set comes with no utility. Min-maxing would involve having a duplicate weapon with Prowess and a main with better filigrees, but I find that to be tedious... especially with wanting to switch in 1k temp and debuff weapons when needed already. Unless you live in LD, chuck Prowess and relieve the requirement of boosts outside of LD.

Im interested in what your filigree setup is. I uave all 11 slots open including the minor artifact. I have crunched data and i also concur with your MP marginal benefit from prowess if you have raid filigrees. I am closing in on enough threads yo have both. Anyway, if you could shsre your setup that excludes prowess/action boost combo, id really be interested. I hate/forget that button alot!

Thanks!
Nico

[DrawingGuy]

Im interested in what your filigree setup is. I uave all 11 slots open including the minor artifact. I have crunched data and i also concur with your MP marginal benefit from prowess if you have raid filigrees. I am closing in on enough threads yo have both. Anyway, if you could shsre your setup that excludes prowess/action boost combo, id really be interested. I hate/forget that button alot!

Thanks!
Nico

This is a case of "it depends". Are you looking to maximize DPS? Maximize DCs? Defenses?

Here is a list of what you would want:

3 Filigree Set for 24 MP
- Sucker Punch/One Against Many: +2 Strength (Rare: +4 Melee Power)
- Sucker Punch: Melee Power (5 MP + 5 set)
- One Against Many: Melee Power (5 MP + 5 set)
(Nice to have) - Sucker Punch: Attack and Damage (Rare) -- Gives +1 attack/damage and +1d6 SA from set

Shattered Device has strong bonuses, including a T4 that helps the whole party. SOMEONE should have this, but more than one person makes it moot. Luckily it is a strong set, so it being you is not a big sacrifice. Would stop at 4 though as hopefully the tank is not so borderline as to make a 10 MP/RP debuff matter.
- Shattered Device: Melee Power (5 MP)
- Shattered Device: Attack and Damage (+1 attack/damage + 3 attack/damage set)
- Shattered Device: Armor Piercing (5% pierce armor + 3% doublestrike set)
- Shattered Device: Physical Resistance Rating (3 PRR, 2 MRR + 10 PRR/MRR debuff on target)

Reverberation - this 2 piece set bonus will outweigh any other 2 piece set for DPS, especially with how rare it is resisted.
- Reverberation: Physical Resistance Rating (3 PRR, 2 MRR)
- Reverberation: Universal Spell Power (to boost LLL finisher and cocoon) or Reverberation: Reflex (2 REF, 2 MRR, Sonic Damage proc)


That alone is 9-10 pieces. There's always some MP filler, but I would go utility and defenses as that outweighs a 5MP per filigree average imo:

Boost your DCs and defenses
- Celerity/Vigilance: +2 Wisdom (+1 to all DCs with a single filigree is amazing)
- Celerity: Dodge and Maximum Dodge (+1 dodge matteers, and also gives 2% doublestrike with set)
- Vigilance: Wisdom (1 WIS + 50% fortification. If not enough space for 3, picking between this or Dodge would depend if WIS is odd or even)

Boost your HAMP
- Purity/Touch of Grace: +20 Healing Amplification
- Purity: Healing Amplification (10 HAMP + 5 set HAMP) or WIS if it is odd

That provides enough to fill 11 slots with or without Shattered Device set.


There is one other important filigree set to consider:

Nystul's Mystical Defense - This is a strong defensive boost, and the decision depends on what your playstyle/difficulty standard is. This may also be where you have two weapons - one with Nystul for when you need the HP and MRR, and a DPS favored one for in general, though that is a tough chew if you are using a lot of RAID filigrees.

[Nickodeamous]

This is a case of "it depends". Are you looking to maximize DPS? Maximize DCs? Defenses?

Here is a list of what you would want:

3 Filigree Set for 24 MP
- Sucker Punch/One Against Many: +2 Strength (Rare: +4 Melee Power)
- Sucker Punch: Melee Power (5 MP + 5 set)
- One Against Many: Melee Power (5 MP + 5 set)
(Nice to have) - Sucker Punch: Attack and Damage (Rare) -- Gives +1 attack/damage and +1d6 SA from set

Shattered Device has strong bonuses, including a T4 that helps the whole party. SOMEONE should have this, but more than one person makes it moot. Luckily it is a strong set, so it being you is not a big sacrifice. Would stop at 4 though as hopefully the tank is not so borderline as to make a 10 MP/RP debuff matter.
- Shattered Device: Melee Power (5 MP)
- Shattered Device: Attack and Damage (+1 attack/damage + 3 attack/damage set)
- Shattered Device: Armor Piercing (5% pierce armor + 3% doublestrike set)
- Shattered Device: Physical Resistance Rating (3 PRR, 2 MRR + 10 PRR/MRR debuff on target)

Reverberation - this 2 piece set bonus will outweigh any other 2 piece set for DPS, especially with how rare it is resisted.
- Reverberation: Physical Resistance Rating (3 PRR, 2 MRR)
- Reverberation: Universal Spell Power (to boost LLL finisher and cocoon) or Reverberation: Reflex (2 REF, 2 MRR, Sonic Damage proc)


That alone is 9-10 pieces. There's always some MP filler, but I would go utility and defenses as that outweighs a 5MP per filigree average imo:

Boost your DCs and defenses
- Celerity/Vigilance: +2 Wisdom (+1 to all DCs with a single filigree is amazing)
- Celerity: Dodge and Maximum Dodge (+1 dodge matteers, and also gives 2% doublestrike with set)
- Vigilance: Wisdom (1 WIS + 50% fortification. If not enough space for 3, picking between this or Dodge would depend if WIS is odd or even)

Boost your HAMP
- Purity/Touch of Grace: +20 Healing Amplification
- Purity: Healing Amplification (10 HAMP + 5 set HAMP) or WIS if it is odd

That provides enough to fill 11 slots with or without Shattered Device set.


There is one other important filigree set to consider:

Nystul's Mystical Defense - This is a strong defensive boost, and the decision depends on what your playstyle/difficulty standard is. This may also be where you have two weapons - one with Nystul for when you need the HP and MRR, and a DPS favored one for in general, though that is a tough chew if you are using a lot of RAID filigrees.

I think i just learned something new!! I thought you would have to have 2 sucker punch/one against many raid filigrees to get the set bonus. From what i am understanding above, you are essentially saying i only need 1 raid sucker punch/one against many firgrees to get the set bonus if i slot 1 of each of the non raid figrees...in this case 1 +5mp of each. Can you confirm this works? If so, im getting this tonight. Ive been saving threads to get 2 of those!

Thanks!
Nico

[HungarianRhapsody]

Are you doing fine against trash because of the excellent CC in your group, but still find it intensely annoying to beat down the massive sack of HP that bosses are in high difficulty levels?

Check out:
Pierce the Gloom: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes) You are accustomed to seeing clearly even in the darkest conditions. Activate this ability to clear any Blindness effect on yourself. For 30 seconds afterwards you always hit except when you roll a 1 on your attack roll.

If you're getting Grazing Hits on even a small number of your attacks, then this turns those attack rolls into full hits. Best DPS increase you can get against bosses with very high AC.

[Nickodeamous]

Are you doing fine against trash because of the excellent CC in your group, but still find it intensely annoying to beat down the massive sack of HP that bosses are in high difficulty levels?

Check out:
Pierce the Gloom: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes) You are accustomed to seeing clearly even in the darkest conditions. Activate this ability to clear any Blindness effect on yourself. For 30 seconds afterwards you always hit except when you roll a 1 on your attack roll.

If you're getting Grazing Hits on even a small number of your attacks, then this turns those attack rolls into full hits. Best DPS increase you can get against bosses with very high AC.

Hmm, interesting! I tend to land almost everything, but i like the concept. CC does help for sure and lets me get in there and swing away.

Thanks for thw tip!
Nico

[Nickodeamous]

If I'm running GMoF, it is for the DCs + Lotus/EIN and I dont run Action Boost twists. There is already so many options you are already having to situationally pick. If you are in a situation you don't need the DC twists, you should probably be in LD and twisting from GMoF for superior DPS.

Are you sure LD is superior DPS with the cores of GMOF giving 10MP each? I have tried both and feel that GMOF is better at sustained DPS, meaning less clickies, but please correct me if I am wrong! I know my front number is at least 100 lower in LD per swing. I am wondering what makes it superior DPS, because I have certainly not figured that out. haha!
Nico

[DrawingGuy]

I think i just learned something new!! I thought you would have to have 2 sucker punch/one against many raid filigrees to get the set bonus. From what i am understanding above, you are essentially saying i only need 1 raid sucker punch/one against many firgrees to get the set bonus if i slot 1 of each of the non raid figrees...in this case 1 +5mp of each. Can you confirm this works? If so, im getting this tonight. Ive been saving threads to get 2 of those!

Thanks!
Nico

I can absolutely confirm that 1 raid + 1 of each non raid will give you the set bonuses. I use it now (though I haven't made my raid one Rare yet, so short 4 MP). One thing I haven't tested was to see if two Raid filigrees would give you both set bonuses (though the duplicate filigree would still provide no bonus other than set as same and same do not stack). Though for the Sucker Punch/One Against Many, that would be utterly pointless as that would be no different than having just one 5 MP filigree (10 MP either way - might as well save the threads).

As for LD vs GMoF DPS, maybe unblitzed and unboosted GMoF would win, but once you add the +1 critical threat range, 20% helpless, shortened cool downs on action boosts, +5 hit/damage, +6 crit damage if you take it, and more AOE if you take the cleaves, all while having more MP if you have Blitz rolling properly (easy on TWF/unarmed builds), as well as +1 more [W] if you don't take the Fire option (3 AP at T5 is rough and costs you no-fail reflex). I get bigger numbers and noticeably better DPS in LD, but luckily due to the pass it is no longer in orders of magnitude. LD also provides more HP, more PRR (30-50 more), a CC break, and a 25% damage reduction clicky, making it more survivable.

However, for me, I prefer GMoF. LD is more of a game of maintaining optimal DPS, where GMoF has good DPS with fun abilities build in (Drifting Lotus and EIN ftw). I'm glad the days of LD being the only viable ED (at least in the meta) are gone.

Lastly, Pierce the Gloom is one I admittedly forget all the time. It is a situational choice where it is indeed good for high-AC targets. Haven't number crunched the numbers, and it would vary so widely depending on the target, duration, and quest (as well as your own personal gear, past lives, and feats), I would think that Sense Weakness and Symmetric would typically be better bets.

Though back on the topic of twists, if you find yourself truly struggling with a lack of CC in party, you can twist in Tsunami. I personally never take it as I balance the difficulty I run to not need it and it is SP heavy for a non-SP class, but still a consideration.

[Nickodeamous]

As for LD vs GMoF DPS, maybe unblitzed and unboosted GMoF would win, but once you add the +1 critical threat range, 20% helpless, shortened cool downs on action boosts, +5 hit/damage, +6 crit damage if you take it, and more AOE if you take the cleaves, all while having more MP if you have Blitz rolling properly (easy on TWF/unarmed builds), as well as +1 more [W] if you don't take the Fire option (3 AP at T5 is rough and costs you no-fail reflex). I get bigger numbers and noticeably better DPS in LD, but luckily due to the pass it is no longer in orders of magnitude. LD also provides more HP, more PRR (30-50 more), a CC break, and a 25% damage reduction clicky, making it more survivable.

However, for me, I prefer GMoF. LD is more of a game of maintaining optimal DPS, where GMoF has good DPS with fun abilities build in (Drifting Lotus and EIN ftw). I'm glad the days of LD being the only viable ED (at least in the meta) are gone.

Now you have me thinking! haha! Ok, so I just tried masters blitz in the ship, but I knock the training dummy down in 1 hit, so I cant seem to build up much MP from that. Maybe I am doing it wrong. hmmm.

couple of notes:
looks like I would have to constantly click the MP action boost for the 30 MP...but it basically syncs with the cooldown of 20 seconds, so no lost DPS
I cant get masters blitz high enough in te airship, since I know the dummy down in 1 swing. Maybe I need to try in a quest. (how do you do it correctly???) seems like it stays up forever if you keep hitting things.
I cant take the PRR improved combat expertise, cause I am using precision instead
I like the extra crit range that is nice!
where is the +1w? I see improved power attack at +.5W, but I cant take that either since I skipped power attack in the first place.

what server do you play on again? I am on khyber.

Thansk,
Nico

[DrawingGuy]

Yeah, the test dummy is not a good place to test DPS (ironically) not only due to it's low DPS, but also abilities that are locked down by not being a combat area (though monk moves are not really affected there). Lam has test kobolds for max DPS tests, though you don't need that to see the difference. Just run it in quests.

- Yes, MP boost and Haste boost have a 100% uptime in LD, which is part of why it has superior DPS (along with actually providing those boosts to everyone and providing extra clicks of them). If you are in LD and reach a shrine with ABs left over and had combat while not using a AB, you are doing it wrong. You should always have an AB going in combat - some quests/raids may require selective use, but you can spend 1 point in move speed boost in Falconry to help cover those. I would suggest using haste boost while building up Blitz, then MP for trash mobs and Haste for bosses from then on.
- All Blitz takes to maintain is hitting things as you said. So don't start your Blitz until actual combat starts (such as when waiting for people to enter, npc dialogues, or just some one off monsters that then have a large gap before the real groups... though you do get it back in 5 mins). Really old quests are the only one you might struggle with due to mob sparsity, but generally it's easy to keep max or near max.
- Precision is indeed better DPS than CE. Though having a stance that gives 10% AC and 20 PRR if you need more defenses is still nice... but if you never find yourself in that position, the 2 AP is better spent elsewhere.
- Yep!
- The +1[W] is in the last core, Combat Brute. That + 20% helpless damage (used to be 50%, but still amazing with 20) + the DPS action boosts provide is why you always want to be using ABs in combat. But LD helps make that possible. .5[w] from Improved Power Attack is indeed another option, but prefer Precision over Power Attack for unarmed Monks for DPS.

As for server, I play on Thelanis. Though I've had several friends transfer to Khyber, some of which asked me to move as well. I haven't decided on that regard yet.

[Nickodeamous]

This is really helpful! I actually met a few folks from Thelanis on the Hardcore server. Its nice meeting new people!

I'll have to check out Lamania next time it is up and do some testing. I can see basically only a few clicks to keep up that Melee power now. I wonder if LD is better when you are leveling through epics from 1-28 (since it takes longer to beat down the mobs), and then GMOF is better once you pick up sharn gear. I don't even run anything less than R5 once I hit 29 due to my endgame gear on.

I guess one factor that I thought about when building up the masters blitz was what if you are in a party that has very good ranged toons. Being a mjonk, I am way faster then they are on foot, but when I get to the mobs, they are pretty much half dead and it only take s a few swings.

Oh well, I'm going to play around with LD this week and see how I do.

Thanks for all of the feedback! I actually went ahead and got the rare raid one against many/sucker punch filigree last night. very nice!

Take care!
Nico

[DrawingGuy]

Things dying too quick for you to DPS means you probably should be running a higher reaper, but your party and what you are running should be deciding factors. A good line could be GMoF for quests (more cc and instakills for trash) and LD for raids (superior boss dps and survivability, which is the main portion of most raids).

One thing that makes me sad is the EIN change. They nerfed the range and capped the targets, but lowered the CD and removed the setup. This makes it better for general questing (even with the target nerf), but killed key uses like parasite clearing Killing Time. Is it really worth giving up DPS to kill one or two parasites? But that is off topic.

[Nickodeamous]

Well, I learned something new last night...they slowed WWA way down. the only think that increases the speed is an action boost (already have melee alacrity). This means it you would most likely have to twist in speed boost from LD for it to function like it did before. This is not a cheap twist at tier 3. I found myself running in GMOF, with the following twists now (I have a 5th slot, but can no longer use it until I have all 48 epic past lifes.

Sense weakness -4
grim pricision - 3
speed boost - 3
legendary tactics - 1
slot 5 - not useable

Nico