Magister == Draconic in DMG. Numbers inside.

[A-O]

Okay, after a somewhat heated debate on discord, I'd figure I'd post the numbers here so they can be perused thoroughly and diachronically.

My argument is this:
The +3 caster levels you get from the T5 ability in Magister gives essentially as much damage as the 30% crit multiplier you get from draconic.

The maths can be seen in this sheet:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_B3...ew?usp=sharing

Note, everything there is changeable. If you want to have more Spellpower, add more spellpower, if you want more crit chance, add more crit chance. In sheet 2, you find an index/match for the spells, and sheet 3 you find the numbers for the graph. They are counted at 100% crit chance, and 2.65 / 2.95 crit multiplier respectively.

My argument continues thus:
Because the damage is essentially the same (+2% dmg for draconic eb, +4% dmg for magister DBF without counting twist differences. See below), the only differences are then in the other utilities the destinies give. And roughly said, they are these:

Draconic:
Dragon's breath (BIG one, especially for high R. This is why I argue that draconic > magister in high R (8-10)).
You're free to twist better (save 2x T4 twists essentially) (so sense weakness, and something else)
30 spellpower that you can't afford to twist as magister (this means you pull ahead ever so slightly more)

Magister:
+4 DC Evocation (without twisting 2dc from DI), and +6 DC to all other schools.
-10% spell costs
-15% cooldowns
15% chance to reduce save by 10


I'll concede that the two twists will mean draconic does more damage per cast. And whether you value the 15% cdr or not is a personal choice. My argument is still that the benefits of Mag outweigh the benefits of draconic, even for a nuking sorcerer. For the vast majority of players, a Magister will mean more DPS from the DC. 20% less chance they save your spells for half dmg, or god forbid, 0 dmg, is going to be mean a lot more damage. And if you're prone to soloing, the 6 DC on mass hold will massively impact your performance unless you're running 120+ DC without it on a nuker.

I'm here to dispel the myth that draconic is the end-all be-all destiny for nuking. Whether I have convinced you or not should depend on how you value the benefits of Draconic vs Magister. Not on if you think draconic has more damage than magister. If you think it has (not counting higher DC on magister, or better twists on draconic), show me the math. Or show me where my math is wrong. I'd gladly update the sheet.


I probably missed something you really like in draconic (e.g. wings) or in magister (e.g. capstone clicky). But again, those come down to personal preferences.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Okay, after a somewhat heated debate on discord, I'd figure I'd post the numbers here so they can be perused thoroughly and diachronically.

My argument is this:
The +3 caster levels you get from the T5 ability in Magister gives essentially as much damage as the 30% crit multiplier you get from draconic.

The maths can be seen in this sheet:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_B3...ew?usp=sharing

Note, everything there is changeable. If you want to have more Spellpower, add more spellpower, if you want more crit chance, add more crit chance. In sheet 2, you find an index/match for the spells, and sheet 3 you find the numbers for the graph. They are counted at 100% crit chance, and 2.65 / 2.95 crit multiplier respectively.

My argument continues thus:
Because the damage is essentially the same (+2% dmg for draconic eb, +4% dmg for magister DBF without counting twist differences. See below), the only differences are then in the other utilities the destinies give. And roughly said, they are these:

Draconic:
Dragon's breath (BIG one, especially for high R. This is why I argue that draconic > magister in high R (8-10)).
You're free to twist better (save 2x T4 twists essentially) (so sense weakness, and something else)
30 spellpower that you can't afford to twist as magister (this means you pull ahead ever so slightly more)

Magister:
+4 DC Evocation (without twisting 2dc from DI), and +6 DC to all other schools.
-10% spell costs
-15% cooldowns
15% chance to reduce save by 10


I'll concede that the two twists will mean draconic does more damage per cast. And whether you value the 15% cdr or not is a personal choice. My argument is still that the benefits of Mag outweigh the benefits of draconic, even for a nuking sorcerer. For the vast majority of players, a Magister will mean more DPS from the DC. 20% less chance they save your spells for half dmg, or god forbid, 0 dmg, is going to be mean a lot more damage. And if you're prone to soloing, the 6 DC on mass hold will massively impact your performance unless you're running 120+ DC without it on a nuker.

I'm here to dispel the myth that draconic is the end-all be-all destiny for nuking. Whether I have convinced you or not should depend on how you value the benefits of Draconic vs Magister. Not on if you think draconic has more damage than magister. If you think it has (not counting higher DC on magister, or better twists on draconic), show me the math. Or show me where my math is wrong. I'd gladly update the sheet.


I probably missed something you really like in draconic (e.g. wings) or in magister (e.g. capstone clicky). But again, those come down to personal preferences.

I totally agree with your math, but Draconic is the end-all be-all destiny for nuking. Why?

The buffs to energy burst and dragon breath make it possible to kill most packs in r10 using both of them. Granted, this is a high risk build, but you're going to do the most burst damage in Draconic. On top of this, Eburst/Dragonbreath are much more mana efficient. I found using meteor swarm as my primary AOE at cap, that I was burning 3X as many spell points as when I was in Draconic.

Magister's caster levels are bananas and super fun. Like I said, I really like your analysis.

[DDOisFree]

Neither even still compare to level 1 magic missile spammed with shiradi.

Based on the fact that my 0 metamagics Shiradi Sorc outpaces or needs to save every PM or Sorc's ass in either of those destinies including himself and my DC wizard alt, eg:

1) Join whatever zerg quest such as Von 3 led by a sole DC PM wizzie. Said wizzie runs of SP just after the first shrine trying to kill a handful of mobs and needs to keep running back to shrine. I finish the quest much faster with over 2000 SP left.

2) Join whatever quest such as Belly of The Beast along with a draconic sorc spamming meteor swarm and draconic things. His / her SP runs out in 2-5 minutes with 3 kills. I finish the quest with over 2000 SP left and at least around 20ish kills.

3) Nerve Venom procs from chain missile far more reliably in any content in this game low to high end than mass hold etc, which also have far too many mobs that are immune to them, and how often mobs simply move out of the area the spell is cast in before it procs (chain missile hits them on the move).

4) My own DC Wiz with 3x FVS and Wiz PLs cant even solo clear any quest faster than my magic missile spamming perma first life sorc even with use of his full SP and all metamagics enabled which always simply burns it way too fast even when trying to farm heroic elites at level 30, not even considering the sheer amount of effort it requires to build a Reaper 10 viable DC caster vs shoving all the reduced threat / subtle spellcasting things on a magic missile spambot.

Regardless of whatever is more viable for end game / reaper 10, not one person playing this game cares about that as they are mostly all still wasting their time trying to grind up to that point with past lives. And by the time anyone does manage to become reaper 10 viable, enjoy playing it by yourself maybe because no one else on the entire server can either manage, or has the time to build a character good enough that.