Originally Posted by
Discpsycho
Why not Rogue as your first level? That gives you 8 more skill points, which could bump your Open Lock a bit
That is the "common wisdom", and appropriate in 98% of builds. However, rarely, a build needs either BAB 1 or spell use for the Feat mix - and Rogue 1 does not provide either of those. It's rare, but it happens, and biting the bullet and catching up afterward is the only option.
However, here, you are correct, since this is not (by necessity) one of those builds.
Code:
Original
18/2 Bard/Rogue
Human
Level Order
1. Bard . . . . . .6. Rogue . . . . .11. Bard. . . . . .16. Bard
2. Rogue . . . . . 7. Bard. . . . . .12. Bard. . . . . .17. Bard
3. Bard . . . . . .8. Bard . . . . . 13. Bard . . . . . 18. Bard
4. Bard . . . . . .9. Bard . . . . . 14. Bard . . . . . 19. Bard
5. Bard . . . . . 10. Bard . . . . . 15. Bard . . . . . 20. Bard
Skills
. . . . . B. R .B .B .B .R. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B
. . . . . 1. 2 .3 .4 .5 .6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . 4. . .2 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Concent . 4. . .2 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Disable . . .5. . . . . .4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 2. 3 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Bluff . . 4. . .1 .2 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Diplo . . 4. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Balance . 4. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Hide. . . 4. . . . 1. 2. . . . . . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 23
UMD . . . 4. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . . .1. . . . . .3. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Jump. . . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Swim. . . 3. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .40 12 10 10 10 12 10 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 12 12 12 12 12
Feats
.1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
.1 Human. : Shield Mastery
.3. . . . : Precision
.6. . . . : Force of Personality
.9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
18. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
(I feel compelled to question "Hide" here, as afaics it adds almost nothing to the build, not without Move Silently (except the ability to cower without moving). If(?) one wanted a poor-man's sneak, they could take MS and pair that with a Bard's Invisibility spell - far from foolproof, but at least it would work in many situations.
I also have to question calling this a "1st life" build (which implies a new(er) player) but not taking Spot. Admittedly, Veteran players, who have memorized where to Search for traps, could start a new 1st-life alt - but how many would?
There are some other choices I would not share - minimal Open Lock among them - but those quibbles start to become a matter of personal preference, and not a "useless" or crippling choice.)
Originally Posted by
magaiti
But net gain will be only 2 points or so, because rogue will end up with 2 points in Perform and Concentration, as opposed to 4 for bard.
If you ignore Spot. I believe the diff ends up as 6 ranks w/ Spot (see below).
But whatever the number, by taking Rogue at Level 1, the skills are indeed improved from the start, and any other differences (mainly in Feats) are gone by Level 6. Some small durability and DPS is lost early by delaying Shield Mastery and Precision, but +4 to Will Saves is gained much earlier - a more or less equal trade, imo.
For skill choices, my preferences reflect the following:
1) Spot is critical for new players. If you're a Vet and building this, ymmv. Admittedly, it is expensive, but for new(er) players it's not open for debate imo.
2) Having both Bluff and Diplomacy is a luxury on a "1st life" build, and one it can't afford - pick one or the other. (I chose Diplo below, simply b/c this build doesn't have a lot of Sneak Attack, but if you solo a lot then... who you gonna throw under the bus, your hire? The cost is identical for either.)
3) Hide is next to useless without Move Silently. (And, if you want to be a trapper w/ Spot, you really can't afford either.)
4) The build needs 7 Balance before Level 9 for the SWF feats - easy. It wants to take full ranks in Balance, but other things are needed first.
5) Raise Dead scrolls are ML 7, and UMD doesn't reach significant levels until mid Heroics anyway, esp for a non-Cha build without PL benefits. No pressing need to max that earlier than 7. (Below, it's maxed by L5 simply because the points need to go somewhere.)
Trappers need Trapping Skills
18/2 Bard/Rogue
Human
Level Order
1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Bard . . . . . 16. Bard
2. Bard . . . . . .7. Bard . . . . . 12. Bard . . . . . 17. Bard
3. Bard . . . . . .8. Bard . . . . . 13. Bard . . . . . 18. Bard
4. Bard . . . . . .9. Bard . . . . . 14. Bard . . . . . 19. Bard
5. Bard . . . . . 10. Bard . . . . . 15. Bard . . . . . 20. Bard
Skills
. . . . . R .B .B .B .B .R. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . 2 .1 .3 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Concent . 2 .3 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Disable . 4 .1 .1 . . . .3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1 . . 2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 .1 . . 2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Diplo . . 4 . . . .3 .1 . . . .2 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
UMD . . . 4 . . . .1 .3 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Balance . 4 . . . . . 3. . . . . . . . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .22
Open Lo . 4 . . . . . . .4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
Haggle. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Swim. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .48 10 10 10 10 12 10 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 12 12 12 12 12
Feats
.1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
.1 Human. : Force of Personality
.3. . . . : Shield Mastery
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
18. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting