looking for DC wizards under the new rules

[Firelily]

I used to play a PM spec'd in necro and enchant and high neg spell power.

What works these days? Same? Illusion spec instead? PM or not?

I'd like either illusion for PK or necro focus AND enchant for CC AND at least one damage type (i.e. neg if PM.)

[Smokewolf]

Illusion: There’s just 2 spells of any significance so not enough to really justify the effort to specialize IMO.

Enchantment: If you want to run high R’s then being able to hold-monster, charm and ottos (to a limited extent) are invaluable.

Necromancy: Great for clearing and disabling trash with speed. Pretty much your goto for room clearing.

Conjuration: Web, Power-Word-Kill and Trap the Soul are very powerful, thou-be-it with a long’ish cool downs. Trap the Soul has been revamped recently and thus far has been really good.

While mostly focusing on Necro / Enchant, all the above has its place in my spell rotation as some spells are better then others depending on the situation. Which if you think about it, its the true strength of a Wizard… Adaptability!

-Smoke

[Ulfo]

Illusion: There’s just 2 spells of any significance so not enough to really justify the effort to specialize IMO.

Lolwut?!

Sure, 2 spells - PK and Weird... and 2 SLA PK... and best low-lvl CC GCS... it's why one from best IK build named Necro-Illusionist...

[Shadowperson]

What new rules? did I miss something?

[Smokewolf]

Lolwut?!

Sure, 2 spells - PK and Weird... and 2 SLA PK... and best low-lvl CC GCS... it's why one from best IK build named Necro-Illusionist...

Sure those spells are neat but consider that there is a huge level-gap between when a player has access to Weird. Thus specializing early on is likely to result in lower DC's for the spells that are available. (Necro and Enhancements) Instead it would be better to reach Epic levels before rearranging feats to allow for specialization. (Assuming just the 3 spells are your thing)

Further more...

Phantasmal Killer has 2 saves and is more likely to be resisted. (Will and Fortitude)

Color Spray is awesome regardless of level for the blindness effect alone.

Weird has a 60 second cool-down so its use would be limited to situations where a large number of trash mobs need to be removed quickly. Keep in mind that its likely that Weird will still be on cool-down then next time its needed.

-Smoke

[Ulfo]

Sure those spells are neat but consider that there is a huge level-gap between when a player has access to Weird.

It's irrelevant, because for early Illusion spec you have 3 IK - PK as spell and as 2 SLA, and this SLA can be full metamagic for same 5SP and 10SP. For Heroic lvls Mana management is crucial.

Furthermore, Illusion specialization provide also early access to crucial for survivability SLA like Blur, Invisibility and Displacement with metamagic too, this additional improve your mana-managetment.

Thus specializing early on is likely to result in lower DC's for the spells that are available. (Necro and Enhancements) Instead it would be better to reach Epic levels before rearranging feats to allow for specialization. (Assuming just the 3 spells are your thing)

As decent DC IK caster you anyway need maximize efficient at least in 3 (better 4 or 5) different schools, so better take specialization for Illusion/Enchantments for heroic, because later you can add more Necro DC output from filigrees (usual +3 DC difference between Necro and all other schools).

Phantasmal Killer has 2 saves and is more likely to be resisted. (Will and Fortitude)

True, but in live it's work really different: mobs with low Will and high Fortitude saves usual survive FoD or Wail, but die from PK/Weird.

Color Spray is awesome regardless of level for the blindness effect alone.

Yea, and it's not contradict my point, and full meta SLA from DG (and you anyway take DG for PK SLA) still consume only 4SP.

Weird has a 60 second cool-down so its use would be limited to situations where a large number of trash mobs need to be removed quickly. Keep in mind that its likely that Weird will still be on cool-down then next time its needed.

...exactly same as Wail of the Banshee, right? So?
And, if you go for the Weird, you mandatory take also Shadowcaster Enhancement with 10% CDR, and second 10% CDR you get from DI Enhancement Dragonspeed. Furthermore, if you take Weird, highly likely you take Shadow Mastery too, and it provide more IK condition for mobs with no save at all! 8)

[Smokewolf]

Ok cool…So you’ve an endgame nich build that can drop Weird once every 50 seconds. What I’m talking about is everything leading up to 30th. Thus far more practical than an end-game mindset that hobbles your ability to get there. Sure it’s great for once you’ve reached 30th with a sheet-ton of past lives but for the majority of folks this isn’t the case.

Apparently even Strimtom gets it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_con...ature=emb_logo

[PrinceOfAsphodel]

I used to play a PM spec'd in necro and enchant and high neg spell power.

What works these days? Same? Illusion spec instead? PM or not?

I'd like either illusion for PK or necro focus AND enchant for CC AND at least one damage type (i.e. neg if PM.)

The conversation above highlights the point that the answer is different depending on whether you're looking for an endgame build or a leveling one. For some people, like me, it's practically the same build but I've seen most players agree that it's just easier to level pure wizard as a nuker and swap to DC casting at the endgame. My build works well in R8 legendary quests but I frequently say that I only play builds that suck until level 29 (realistically 30 post U51). Eight of my last nine lives have been pure wizard but I just don't recommend it unless you're planning to build it for endgame use.

[noinfo]

Ok cool…So you’ve an endgame nich build that can drop Weird once every 50 seconds. What I’m talking about is everything leading up to 30th. Thus far more practical than an end-game mindset that hobbles your ability to get there. Sure it’s great for once you’ve reached 30th with a sheet-ton of past lives but for the majority of folks this isn’t the case.

Apparently even Strimtom gets it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_con...ature=emb_logo

Can't see any point to planning out a build for anything if its not for end game, getting a past life on anything is easy to do on low reapers even solo on a dc caster. If you don't think a build purely specced for cc as above cant solo its way to 30 with dps spells well.

Go ahead and perpetuate the myth that you need a sheet ton of past lives on a wizard.

Necro Illusion is a very solid build since your enchant as a wiz will be high anyway.

[Ulfo]

Apparently even Strimtom gets it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_con...ature=emb_logo

Oh, how I like opponents who make their own arguments in my favor! 8)
Did you watch this video yourself to the end? The author literally repeats what I am talking above - an early specialization in Illusion, and Epic throw bone to Necro. And it's first life toon...

Can't see any point to planning out a build for anything if its not for end game, getting a past life on anything is easy to do on low reapers even solo on a dc caster. If you don't think a build purely specced for cc as above cant solo its way to 30 with dps spells well.

Go ahead and perpetuate the myth that you need a sheet ton of past lives on a wizard.

Necro Illusion is a very solid build since your enchant as a wiz will be high anyway.

^^^^
This!!! 8)

[Smokewolf]

The conversation above highlights the point that the answer is different depending on whether you're looking for an endgame build or a leveling one.

Most who come to these forms are looking for answers. Not at how to min-max but rather just be effective with the limited gear they have.

Oh, how I like opponents who make their own arguments in my favor...

I posted that video link as it proves the effectiveness of what I'd suggested as it may relate to a returning player, not a min-maxer such as yourself. Who apparently feels they must 1-up or have the last word in every conversation with an "opponent". Not a fellow player but an opponent...but sure you win, pat yourself on the back and have a cookie too.

[Ulfo]

I posted that video link as it proves the effectiveness of what I'd suggested

...no, pal... now i see clearly you don't see this video yourself, because it proves, literally, as i say above, not what you're suggested, but what suggested I'd.

Not a fellow player but an opponent...but sure you win, pat yourself on the back and have a cookie too.

And what, such kindergarten manipulations continue to work for you? And how often? ????

[slarden]

I haven't been actively playing the game in recent months so I may not be aware of the impact of recent changes, but since the ED pass my perspective is that a high DC generalist caster is the way to go. I wouldn't make major sacrifices for DC instead go for all the low-hanging DC fruit in ED trees (cores, Tier 5 and 2x tier 3 DCs), embolden, maxing stat and DC with gear as much as possible. With current gear you can get solid DCs and DPS so there isn't much need for trade-offs as there has been in the past.

I really like a combo of draconic and magus for a wizard. With wizard spell book I personally favor focusing on illusion + enchantment as primary school. That synergizes nicely with scion of feywild and magewright set.

Since the ED pass casters still kill bosses much slower than melee but casters are useful in all aspects of a dungeon now and not just for trash clearing. In other words your DPS contribution for bosses and higher hp mobs matters so it doesn't make sense to completely dump DPS on a caster used primarily for group play anymore. If you end up short-manning or duoing you will be happy you didn't dump dps even in high Rs.

[EinarMal]

I am giving the necro/illusion wizard another go. This is my plan once the cap goes up, I have all racial/epic PL's.

Basically focus on necromancy/illusion instant-killing along with negative/cold damage for boss and death immunes. I plan on taking the negative draconic dragon breath/mantle, and the negative SLA in T5 Magus. For negative immune use cold back up, Iceberg, Polar ray, Otiluke's Freezing Sphere.

You are pretty much screwed with Iron Golems, and anything with cold immunity that ends up with death ward or negative immunity. But that is pretty much the current state of Wizards I guess.

I took wellspring of power, to me anything that helps with boss killing is better than more DC which you can overcome with gear etc....but Arcane Insight is a good option at 21. Bust of glacial wraith is also hard to pass up, I took epic SF necro so I could take the new 32 feat to boost illusion DC's by 3 without taking any of the illusion SF feats and Intensify, but either could be swapped out.

As far as enchant goes, I usually end up with a good enough DC just maxing Int and DC boosting gear. It's possible you could swap the 32 feat for enchantment, and then change destiny points to allow for the +3 enchantment or choose that over illusion.

Deep Gnome Wizard 20
Str 6
Dex 8
Con 18
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 10

Feats: (7 + 5WB)
1-Quicken
1-(WB) Maximize
3-Arcane Initiate
5-(WB) Empower
6-Completionist
9-Insightful Reflexes
10-(WB) Extend
12-SF Necro
15-GSF Necro
15-(WB) Heighten
18-SF Enchant or SF Illusion (need to take one that you are not taking at 32)
20-(WB) Enlarge
21-Wellspring of Power or Arcane Insight
22-Epic Spellpower Negative
24-Embolden
25-Epic Spell Power Cold
27-Intensify or BoGW
28-Crush Weakness
30-Scion of Shadowfell
30-Epic SF Necromancy
32-Spell Specialty: Illusion or Enchantment

Enhancements
PM 41 (Lich + neg. SLA, good stuff etc...)
Archmage 25 (PK + Int etc...)
Racial 16 (PK + Int etc...)
Falconry 8 (Int + Run Speed I)
Feydark 7 (Int)

Epic Destiny (if taking Intensify, if not move 1 point out of Magus to Shadowdancer +1 DC Enchantment)
Magus 36 (Illusion DC, Time stop, Negative SLA, DCs)
Draconic 24 (Necro DC, Negative 2x DB + -10% cooldown)
Shadowdancer 13 (Evasion + -10% cooldown