Power disparities in the racial TR wheel

[Tlorrd]

A couple simple changes to "keep up with" the AOE of IPS and ranged.

Arty
BE
T3: Shatter defense should be a cleave
T5: Thunder shock weapon should definitely be a cleave

RM already gets a cleave

Barb
FB already gets a cleave

Etc etc ... Change some of the mid to high tier melee attacks to cleaves to help chain some cleavage.

It's not a perfect solution, but could be a step in helping deal with packs of mobs and adding the CC or DPS of these attacks to current game design.

[Blastyswa]

Perhaps you should group with better players?

If your point, condescending comments aside, is that you are so much better than the rest of players, and hence can outkill them even on arguably flavor builds, I guess that more power to you. That does not change the fact that some classes are miles ahead than others in heroics. Same skill, same player, far better results.

Well this was a pitiful reply. Some classes being miles ahead of others in heroics (aside from being an entirely arbitrary designation) is also your opinion. It might be based on your own experience with the classes/enhancements in question, but it's still just your opinion. My opinion, as stated, is that those classes are not "miles ahead", but instead you want to insult the people I group with, take issue with the way I come across to you in text, insult my nature, and restate your opinion without addressing the issue at all.

Your initial post included that you (Not everyone, despite your trying to speak as though you speak for every melee player) find it slower to quest as a melee, more prone to failure when soloing, and contribute less in groups. I gave several tips, and my own opinion on the matter. If you're going to make blanket statements like that, at least be prepared to actually discuss on your OPINION. I have given mine, feel free and attack something about how I phrase things or what my playstyle must be based on your vast insight again.

[Blastyswa]

Thinking to go back and play a q/staff build again. Is this build posted anywhere? Sounds intriguing.

It was a custom one, but I did rogue first level (H-Orc on race, although w/e would've been fine), then alternated fvs/barb until level 5, and then went full FvS beyond that. You get +15% q-staff attack speed and trapping, Leap of Faith, all spell levels but 9th, low stat dependency (I did wis for hit and damage through FvS), super high survivability (Heals outside of rage, +blood tribute while in rage), and get to use a less used main enhancement tree (War Soul t5, which is actually pretty fun). You can also usually do fine using wis to ins damage divine might + divine favor between rages.

Downsides are leap of faith doesn't come online until max level so it isn't really relevant in heroics. Also some degree of micro required just in terms of canceling rage to heal if you get poked over blood tribute, or to refresh buffs.

[SirValentine]

...mobs have accessed our builds and are now splashing 2 levels of monk or rogue and grinding out dreaming dark on casual for pale lavenders! Champs come equipped with the same PLUS silver flame amulets, jeweled cloaks and greater harper pins.

Maybe they'll farm Dreaming Dark next, but I hear lately that they've been farming Two-Toed Tobais.

[MaeveTuohy]

It was a custom one, but I did rogue first level (H-Orc on race, although w/e would've been fine), then alternated fvs/barb until level 5, and then went full FvS beyond that. You get +15% q-staff attack speed and trapping, Leap of Faith, all spell levels but 9th, low stat dependency (I did wis for hit and damage through FvS), super high survivability (Heals outside of rage, +blood tribute while in rage), and get to use a less used main enhancement tree (War Soul t5, which is actually pretty fun). You can also usually do fine using wis to ins damage divine might + divine favor between rages.

Downsides are leap of faith doesn't come online until max level so it isn't really relevant in heroics. Also some degree of micro required just in terms of canceling rage to heal if you get poked over blood tribute, or to refresh buffs.

Sounds fun, thanks for the run down. Q/staff is my preferred play style, but it got a bit stale and I found it weak in epics so I switched out to monk for a while, then tempests. Time to go home.

[BigErkyKid]

Well this was a pitiful reply. Some classes being miles ahead of others in heroics (aside from being an entirely arbitrary designation) is also your opinion. It might be based on your own experience with the classes/enhancements in question, but it's still just your opinion. My opinion, as stated, is that those classes are not "miles ahead", but instead you want to insult the people I group with, take issue with the way I come across to you in text, insult my nature, and restate your opinion without addressing the issue at all.

Your initial post included that you (Not everyone, despite your trying to speak as though you speak for every melee player) find it slower to quest as a melee, more prone to failure when soloing, and contribute less in groups. I gave several tips, and my own opinion on the matter. If you're going to make blanket statements like that, at least be prepared to actually discuss on your OPINION. I have given mine, feel free and attack something about how I phrase things or what my playstyle must be based on your vast insight again.

The reason why the conversation devolves is because instead of discussing whether one class is truly ahead of the other in heroics, you came to comment on how you are top killer on whatever build that happens to be off META.

I have no doubt that some people have uber gear, uber quest knowledge, and play with people who are either not focused on killing or not at the same level of skill+grind and hence beat them in KC. But that does not diminish the fact that, everything else constant, some archetypes are so far ahead than others that, when questing together in equal footing, they make playing the weaker option little to no fun.

As and example, I talked about a sorc I am leveling for testing purposes that uses mediocre gear. I can run something like GH with a melee of the same skill level as me and virtually make that player feel useless, even if they are better geared than me. Why? Because my non crit damage exceeds the melees typical crit damage (no stars aligned special attacks), I have AoE CC, ranged options, and far superior AoE damage. If we play at lower skulls (like the majority of groups out there that just cruise through heroics), I can 1-2 shot the vast majority of packs without breaking a sweat and leaving the other DPS no role.

I am sorry, but I am absolutely convinced that if I LRed that sorc to your qstaff build, I would be less powerful; the same would apply to you, regardless of whether you can still complete content or not. You do disagree?

Those are actual facts, which could be demonstrated if we sat down and computed the damage of a typical spell at those levels vs a typical swing, using the data from the game (damage mods, crit profiles, etc.). I don't do that because anyone who has played those classes knows those statements to be true. I would love for someone to prove me wrong, but that won't happen because sadly it is not true.

Telling me to bring CC, to bring a hire, drop difficulty, that you outkill sorcs on a staff build, or similar stuff is a comment out of the scope of the threat (and condescending, and I am sure you can see why). The topic is balance between archetypes and classes in heroics; dropping a difficulty level because you are playing on a melee is already an admission of imbalance.

At the end of the day, I am bringing this issue to the attention of the devs. Presumably, it is very simple for them to simulate typical numbers and see the differences in damage.

[SpartanKiller13]

The reason why the conversation devolves is because instead of discussing whether one class is truly ahead of the other in heroics, you came to comment on how you are top killer on whatever build that happens to be off META.

I have no doubt that some people have uber gear, uber quest knowledge, and play with people who are either not focused on killing or not at the same level of skill+grind and hence beat them in KC. But that does not diminish the fact that, everything else constant, some archetypes are so far ahead than others that, when questing together in equal footing, they make playing the weaker option little to no fun.

I am sorry, but I am absolutely convinced that if I LRed that sorc to your qstaff build, I would be less powerful; the same would apply to you, regardless of whether you can still complete content or not. You do disagree?

Telling me to bring CC, to bring a hire, drop difficulty, that you outkill sorcs on a staff build, or similar stuff is a comment out of the scope of the threat (and condescending, and I am sure you can see why). The topic is balance between archetypes and classes in heroics; dropping a difficulty level because you are playing on a melee is already an admission of imbalance.

+1

I'm currently playing a melee who brings CC (Int-based w/Color Spray) and while I can generally kill whatever is within arm's reach that's the problem. When I group with Inquisitors or casters, they generally kill most of the stuff before I can get to arm's reach.

I ran 15-20 with a buddy of mine, both of us on melee builds, and it was a blast as we zerged our way through low Reaper of whatever we felt like, mulching everything. Then I hit epics, and there I started partying. In an average party, most of the killing happens at range and I'm just there to mop stuff up and work on Champs/Named enemies. On my PM life (and again, I'm a melee main and that was my first time as a DC caster) I zerged my way through low Reaper of whatever I felt like 15-30, destroying stuff at range before my melee party members could get to it. It's pretty fun as long as you're doing the killing XD

[Karthunk]

+1

I'm currently playing a melee who brings CC (Int-based w/Color Spray) and while I can generally kill whatever is within arm's reach that's the problem. When I group with Inquisitors or casters, they generally kill most of the stuff before I can get to arm's reach.

I ran 15-20 with a buddy of mine, both of us on melee builds, and it was a blast as we zerged our way through low Reaper of whatever we felt like, mulching everything. Then I hit epics, and there I started partying. In an average party, most of the killing happens at range and I'm just there to mop stuff up and work on Champs/Named enemies. On my PM life (and again, I'm a melee main and that was my first time as a DC caster) I zerged my way through low Reaper of whatever I felt like 15-30, destroying stuff at range before my melee party members could get to it. It's pretty fun as long as you're doing the killing XD

Sounds like your group wasn't bothering to play a difficulty that challenged it.

[SpartanKiller13]

Sounds like your group wasn't bothering to play a difficulty that challenged it.

If I go up a bunch I can't land DC's lol. At which point I'm screwed. I'm starting to get better, but for now I'm pretty happy with solid DC's in low Reaper.