Poison neutralization and trap:poison

[vms4ever]

Potion of poison neutralization says that it grants immnuity to poison for 21 seconds. Quaff it and the combat log says that Immune to trap: poison. Then (less than 2 seconds later) I run through the POISON trap in Thrall of the necromancer and the combat log says that I failed to save vs trap: poison take 76 points of damage.

THis was a test on the regular server (thelanis) after I lost a level 9 on hardcore to that trap.

Does neutralize poison grant (21 second) immunity to poison or doesn't it?

[Aelonwy]

This has been somewhat contentious on the forums before with no dev response that I recall but I think the issue stems from poison damage being coded differently by source, since the potions work only for poison from spells/natural effects and not traps it seems as though the poison damage from traps is on a different damage channel.

Another issue I noticed a long time ago but haven't tested anytime recently was that % Poison Resistance items worked for some poison effects and not others.

[heavyaslead0]

Potion of poison neutralization says that it grants immnuity to poison for 21 seconds. Quaff it and the combat log says that Immune to trap: poison. Then (less than 2 seconds later) I run through the POISON trap in Thrall of the necromancer and the combat log says that I failed to save vs trap: poison take 76 points of damage.

THis was a test on the regular server (thelanis) after I lost a level 9 on hardcore to that trap.

Does neutralize poison grant (21 second) immunity to poison or doesn't it?

I am suspecting it is valid for 'natural' poisons, like from spider etc.

Technically a trap can't be protected against, only evaded, so maybe that's the trick

[Mindos]

Does neutralize poison grant (21 second) immunity to poison or doesn't it?

Short answer? I don't know.

Long Answer:
When the expansion Menace of the Underdark came out, poison immunity was changed. Previously, immunity meant just that. You didn't get hit with poison damage or effects. However, because the Drow monsters and poison is such an integral combination, poison (and disease) immunity was changed to only provide a "bonus" to a save against said poison (or disease). This was met with great sarcasm from the players at the time as one only had to start carrying stacks of poison and disease pots and chug one whenever one was so inflicted.

In other words, we changed from having total immunity to having an annoying mechanic requireing a click on a pot. Of course, the initial damage/effect still took effect though. And this is where we are today. Perhaps quite a few of the pots, items, etc., do not have updated descriptions saying they don't give immunity but instead a bonus to save for that effect. Or maybe it really is another damage type just sharing the name with poison, or maybe...

See, I told you I didn't know.
https://ddowiki.com/page/Proof_Against_Poison
https://ddowiki.com/page/Poison

https://ddowiki.com/page/Neutralize_Poison Reports as being bugged.
https://ddowiki.com/page/Remove_Disease Reports as having incorrect description

https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_14#Poison_.26_Diseases

[Enoach]

My theory is that for those 21 seconds you get a bonus to save vs poison but not the immunity specified. I'm thinking this is a hold over from the change when Underdark was released and removed the immunity because "drow".

[vms4ever]

My theory is that for those 21 seconds you get a bonus to save vs poison but not the immunity specified. I'm thinking this is a hold over from the change when Underdark was released and removed the immunity because "drow".

I am not seeing an immunity or bonus which is quite annoying as the item (potion/spell) description clearly states immunity for 21 seconds AND the combat log says that there is immunity to trap:poison and then the damage is listed as trap:poison. So the combat log is lying about one of those.

It is time to take extreme measures to get this fixed:
Lynnabel, Lynnabel, Lynnabel. Come rescue us from poison traps. :)

[erethizon]

My theory is that the potions are old and they were created back when poison damage was not hit point damage. It used to be that you could run through poison traps, even without a poison immunity item, because they didn't damage your hit points. They just inflicted you with poison and that would damage your stats if you failed your saving throw. Then they updated poison traps to actually hurt your hit points so you could not run through them with impunity. The poison spell and potion were created for a world where poison traps only inflicted you with a poison debuff and didn't actually do hit point damage.

I could be wrong about the way things used to work, but that is what I recall. We used to run through poison traps because they didn't actually hurt and so we didn't care that we were getting hit.

[Enoach]

My theory is that the potions are old and they were created back when poison damage was not hit point damage. It used to be that you could run through poison traps, even without a poison immunity item, because they didn't damage your hit points. They just inflicted you with poison and that would damage your stats if you failed your saving throw. Then they updated poison traps to actually hurt your hit points so you could not run through them with impunity. The poison spell and potion were created for a world where poison traps only inflicted you with a poison debuff and didn't actually do hit point damage.

I could be wrong about the way things used to work, but that is what I recall. We used to run through poison traps because they didn't actually hurt and so we didn't care that we were getting hit.

Possibly, remember though at one point dropping to 0 CON = Death. So running through a trap a failed save could still mean death. Now a 0 CON = Stunned for a small time.

So you may have a point that in that the immunity may be against the Attribute damage but not the HP damage. And with the change that people are not immune to being poisoned with the Underdark changes that the HP damage is not blocked.

[scipiojedi]

I am suspecting it is valid for 'natural' poisons, like from spider etc.

Technically a trap can't be protected against, only evaded, so maybe that's the trick

but I thought acid potions and sonic potions help against those types of traps?

[psykopeta]

but I thought acid potions and sonic potions help against those types of traps?

u're immune to poison "effect", not damage, think of poison damage as fire damage

and then think of fire "effect" as burning (not the damage portion, the concepto of lasting not bursting)

for example u won't be poisoned but u will get the 90ish hit

OTOH u won't get the DDTW dot cause it's an effect, same with the paralyzing from drow blades

the extra to saves, etc is to avoid the damage AND the effect cause both have a roll

but yes, it was coded to be damage AND effect bound together, sadly that meant being immune to effect AND damage, so it needed a workaround which lead to damage being only vs save

[Powerhungry]

which ever champ has this nasty little poison dot, neutralize poison pots don't remove it either

[TedSandyman]

I personally believe there is some confusion among the developers between Proof Against Poison and Poison Neutralization. Proof Against Poison used to grant poison neutralization.

When the Drow expansion came out, a main weapon of the Drow was poison. So the developers didn't want people running around with complete immunity to this new thing they were introducing.

So Proof Against Poison was changed to a damage reduction instead of neutralization and the length of time that the spell Neutralize Poison worked was drastically cut back as well, from many minutes to a few seconds.

The way neutralize poison works in the outdoor areas in the kings forest is how you would expect neutralize poison to work in general.

It "neutralizes" the poison and stops the poison from causing any further damage, effectively cancelling DOTs.

And since this was the update that was released WITH the changes to proof and neutralize, I believe it to be the correct interpretation.

But many updates since then have treated neutralize poison exactly as proof against poison. Meaning it is treated as a damage reduction and since neutralize poison doesn't provide ANY damage reduction of itself, it doesn't do anything to the poison affecting you. It will clear any poison health effects, but not the damage you are receiving.

So the poison is neutralized, but it still hurts you somehow. I could live with the notion that the poison damaged you, and even after it is gone, the damaging effect is still there. Maybe it did something to your blood vessels and they are still leaking, for example.

But it doesn't explain why, if you have neutralize poison running before the attack, you still get poisoned and still take poison damage.

I have argued this in the forums, but I believe some of the changes are too entrenched at this point.

So, as to your question, "Does it neutralize poison?", the answer is sometimes.

[Sir_Noob]

This weekend a buddy and I were running through The Sunken Sewers both on Dwarves.
We were poisoned by spiders and both used the Iron Stomach ability quaffing a CLW pot banking that the 2 minute immunity would see us through the traps spewing poison, only to shockingly find our soulstones suddenly appear.
Good thing a dexterous halfling was able to get us and transport us to a shrine to recover.

We were both wondering why the immunity did not work on the traps.

[kmoustakas]

This all dates back to menace of the underdark. Because the developers wanted the drow to use poison, they invented 3-4 different types of poison damage, came up with poison and disease proof +2/+4/+6/+8/+10 and made the whole thing explode. So you can be immune to disease and get diseased, you can be immune to poison and get poisoned and so on and so forth.

Right now, poison is the most dangerous type of damage in the game when it should have been the least dangerous.