Everyone loves rogues

[Kutalp]

Hi there. The suggestion is simple to make Rogue lives more fun for everyone. ( It is for players old and new no past lives no hardcore gamership at all )



1) Adding intelligence to hit and damage instead of dexterity at all rogue enhancement trees.

2) Assasin Venomed blades changed to Assasin Bane blades.

3) Adding +%50 hit points at T5 of all rogue trees. Making this non stackable with any other tree including Stalwart.

4) Adding small prr/mrr bonuses scattered across the rogue trees.

5) Adding active clickies for rogue trees at t5 similar to Vistani enhancement Vistani Fortune. Restricting this to at least level 8 to 12 rogues. (Rogues love luck games and dice rolls)

Giving random but meaningfull bonuses to saves (+6) or dodge (+%20) or melee/ranged power (+30) or aoe blindness with no save for a limited time.

6) Additional %1 movement speed with each rogue class level. Attack speed with every two rogue levels. Additional dodge chance, saves against traps and +1 prr/mrr every two rogue class level.

7) +1 additional skill point each rogue level. +1 additional bonus to Sneaking and social skills.

8) Additional feat of choice every fourth level. ( Or at least adding Dodge, Mobility, Spring attack line Precision, Improved feint, Sap free for rogues at enhancement trees. Unlocked at various Ts and Cores and Rogue levels )

9) Buckler unlocked at rogue level 2. Scimitar and small shield unlocked at rogue level 4. Great club unlocked at rogue level 6. Picks unlocked at rogue level 8.

10) +2 to threat and +2 to multiplier with piercing, slashing , bludgeoning, ranged weapons which rogues are proficient with at T5 of all enhancement trees. Requires lvl 12 rogue. Does not stack with various class enhancements and non class enhancements.

11) Hide in shadows active clicky to distract and move monsters away when spotted during Hide and sneak action ( Works same as diplomacy for 30 seconds but when no other Player character is around and is auto triggered right after the character gets spotted during a Sneaking action. Drops alert level and threat level drastically and makes the npcs leave the rogue alone )

12) Easy made and functional rogue traps even at the character is capped ;such as Smoke bombs that add %20-%50 concealment for the party; Grease traps that will not make the party members fall; snare traps that will slow down the attacking hostile enemies to aid the party; boosted healing kits used for healing wounds of party members while not fighting may also add more values to beloved specialist class

13) Action boost Roguish 'Next round's by me !' Delivering booze and sing a song (insert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F35HpMRhMI) with some emote to give morale bonuses and faster healing to the party. Five use every rest.

14) Finding random platinum, gem or collectables loot with % chance which % of the share is delivered to party members.


Thank you very much.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXgCVaypJOo

[Discpsycho]

1: Meh. You need KTA to make Int better than Dex, in which case you can already pick up Int to Hit. Int to damage is only a couple more points

2: Sure?

3 and 4: No thanks. They're already slippery, they don't need to be beefy as well. Uncanny Dodge helps a lot, and Assassin/Acrobat get further boosts. Mechanic doesn't really need it. Re: HP, that's what EDF is for

5: No thanks. Hip Flask for pure mechanics, various Tumble mechanics for Acrobats. Stealth play is already mechanics-intensive enough

6: Movespeed is in TA, dodge comes with Uncanny, trap sense exists. As I said in 3 and 4, PRR/MRR doesn't fit the theme IMO

7: MOAR SKILLS?! If you're Int-based, you don't really need them. I'm Dex-based this life and already have 13 skills with minimal tomes

8: If they're specialized enough, sure? Feint, Sap for sure. Maybe Trapmaking. Damage-based and some utility ones already crop up at 10, 13, 16, 19

9: Not signed. Rogues *can* use bucklers, it just doesn't help much. Are you suggesting swash-style SWF support? Small shields interfere with evasion, and a greatclub is just a quarterstaff for somebody who's compensating for something...

10: Doubly not signed. Rogues already do quite a bit of damage *and* have this: +2 multi / 1 range in Mechanic (requires 18), +2 range / +1 multi Assassin (18) with an additional +1 multi from Vistani, +1 multi / 2 range from TA thanks to Swords to Plowshares.

11: YES PLEASE! Or at least make enemies turn at the sound of a thrown weapon hitting a wall/floor as advertised

12: Maybe not quite that beefy, but in line with the Magister sigils?

13/14: Meh. I guess I could be convinced either way

[Lonnbeimnech]

Hi there. The suggestion is simple to make Rogue lives more fun for everyone. ( It is for players old and new no past lives no hardcore gamership at all )



1) Adding intelligence to hit and damage instead of dexterity at all rogue enhancement trees.

2) Assasin Venomed blades changed to Assasin Bane blades.

3) Adding +%50 hit points at T5 of all rogue trees. Making this non stackable with any other tree including Stalwart.

4) Adding small prr/mrr bonuses scattered across the rogue trees.

5) Adding active clickies for rogue trees at t5 similar to Vistani enhancement Vistani Fortune. Restricting this to at least level 8 to 12 rogues. (Rogues love luck games and dice rolls)

Giving random but meaningfull bonuses to saves (+6) or dodge (+%20) or melee/ranged power (+30) or aoe blindness with no save for a limited time.

6) Additional %1 movement speed with each rogue class level. Attack speed with every two rogue levels. Additional dodge chance, saves against traps and +1 prr/mrr every two rogue class level.

7) +1 additional skill point each rogue level. +1 additional bonus to Sneaking and social skills.

8) Additional feat of choice every fourth level. ( Or at least adding Dodge, Mobility, Spring attack line Precision, Improved feint, Sap free for rogues at enhancement trees. Unlocked at various Ts and Cores and Rogue levels )

9) Buckler unlocked at rogue level 2. Scimitar and small shield unlocked at rogue level 4. Great club unlocked at rogue level 6. Picks unlocked at rogue level 8.

10) +2 to threat and +2 to multiplier with piercing, slashing , bludgeoning, ranged weapons which rogues are proficient with at T5 of all enhancement trees. Requires lvl 12 rogue. Does not stack with various class enhancements and non class enhancements.

11) Hide in shadows active clicky to distract and move monsters away when spotted during Hide and sneak action ( Works same as diplomacy for 30 seconds but when no other Player character is around and is auto triggered right after the character gets spotted during a Sneaking action. Drops alert level and threat level drastically and makes the npcs leave the rogue alone )

12) Easy made and functional rogue traps even at the character is capped ;such as Smoke bombs that add %20-%50 concealment for the party; Grease traps that will not make the party members fall; snare traps that will slow down the attacking hostile enemies to aid the party; boosted healing kits used for healing wounds of party members while not fighting may also add more values to beloved specialist class

13) Action boost Roguish 'Next round's by me !' Delivering booze and sing a song (insert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F35HpMRhMI) with some emote to give morale bonuses and faster healing to the party. Five use every rest.

14) Finding random platinum, gem or collectables loot with % chance which % of the share is delivered to party members.


Thank you very much.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXgCVaypJOo

and a pony

[Kutalp]

Thanks for the input guys. Everybody loves rogues.

[Saekee]

umm way too much power creep in general

yes to more kinds of traps! It surprises me that more have not been developed, given Lines of Supply quest with net trap animation already!

I think rogues ought to get some better options for their special ability selections so that one really needs to pause and think. Right now it is always Improved evasion and opportunist, then usually defensive roll and slippery mind. I suggested a list a long long time ago and posted something like this:
1) Improved deception on equipped melee-only weapons
2) +5% stacking ghostly, can be taken multiple times
3) power critical: +6 seeker, stacking
4) Sap, melee only
5) +6 to a select skill (or something like that)
6) Improved traps (independent of Mech tree, non-stacking)
7) Treasurefinding as per dragonmark (this is your idea and is likeable; even permanent +2 loot could be fun and not gamebreaking)
8) disguise: clicky that allows diplomacy skill to bypass mobs in full view. Something that you suggested

[Kutalp]

Thanks for the input friend.

[Arkat]

Don't U Love Gornn?

[Indubitably]

From someone who loves rogues and would love them to be more roguey...

1) 2/3rds of the trees are INT based already, if your missing attack you can get it with minimal investment from harper tree. Many classes with alternative stat choices are designed this way. For a DEX based class, odd to then make the last tree INT to. Doesn't make huge sense.
2) Why? that makes less sense and little difference.
3) You want to make rogues tankier than barbs/bears/other tanking trees? why? this is so against the grain of being a rogue...which is to AVOID damage, not take it like a sponge.
4) MRR is likely to be capped by their light armour and are the most evasive class...again... rogues arent barbs.
5) Invest in Vistani if you like Vistani? You can do this and still go rogue...
6) You've just described enhancements, thats what they are for, and they have it. No other class gets passive PRR/MRR and attack speed is your BAB you get when leveling up.
7) Rogues get the most skills in the game, 2/3rds of them are INT based meaning they get even MORE! how painful do you want to make it to eTR a rogue?
8) Can't wait for lvl10 when this happens? Feat selection is meant to be a choice, they are not fighters... or if you want to embrance the whole dodge line.... go a fighter/rogue... thats what multiclassing is for.
9) Such an odd mechanic, not seen elsewhere. Again, take 1 fighter level and you unlock all those whenever you want. And you can then specialise in that weapon! All three of the rogue trees are alreayd very focused on set weapons anyways.... why would you use these? A Great Club???? Sounds more like a brawler/basher that a rogue.
10) SSG have a very balanced way of distributing this to classes. This just throws that out of whack... rogues alreayd have a better than average crit profile anyways... and they get sneak on top of it all.

11) Hey, something I can finally get behind. But the sneak system needs a TOTAL overhaul... and SSG have shown no interest in trying again. There ARE ways to distract monsters... but once you have agro, its GG.

12) Argh, do you play a rogue? They have this. Try the trapmaking sometime... OK, it could be faster...but your laying traps. And because of the (buggy?) DCs they work really well. You can turn all of these spells into traps.
Cause Fear, Grease, Hypnotism, Sleep, Blindness, Daze Monster, Glitterdust, Hypnotic Pattern, Otto's Resistible Dance, Scare, Touch of Idiocy, Web, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Halt Undead, Hold Person, Slow
They can also make noisemakers (your distractors), elemental damage traps, grenades, etc....
Would be awesome though if they widened the range of spells and made a way of improving the traps caster level and spell power.... potentially a great class defining mechanic there!

13) Sounds like you want to roll a bard. this is a bard thing. This is so much a bard thing. Roll a bard.

14) Eh, they could, but why? Already got enough platnium.


Eh, I'm sorry... these changes just don't seem thematic, appropriate, balanced. Most of what you want could be accomplished by multiclassing to some extent, and thats what makes the game fun.
I will 100% support your suggestion to improve traps however!!!

[Kutalp]

From someone who loves rogues and would love them to be more roguey...

1) 2/3rds of the trees are INT based already, if your missing attack you can get it with minimal investment from harper tree. Many classes with alternative stat choices are designed this way. For a DEX based class, odd to then make the last tree INT to. Doesn't make huge sense.
2) Why? that makes less sense and little difference.
3) You want to make rogues tankier than barbs/bears/other tanking trees? why? this is so against the grain of being a rogue...which is to AVOID damage, not take it like a sponge.
4) MRR is likely to be capped by their light armour and are the most evasive class...again... rogues arent barbs.
5) Invest in Vistani if you like Vistani? You can do this and still go rogue...
6) You've just described enhancements, thats what they are for, and they have it. No other class gets passive PRR/MRR and attack speed is your BAB you get when leveling up.
7) Rogues get the most skills in the game, 2/3rds of them are INT based meaning they get even MORE! how painful do you want to make it to eTR a rogue?
8) Can't wait for lvl10 when this happens? Feat selection is meant to be a choice, they are not fighters... or if you want to embrance the whole dodge line.... go a fighter/rogue... thats what multiclassing is for.
9) Such an odd mechanic, not seen elsewhere. Again, take 1 fighter level and you unlock all those whenever you want. And you can then specialise in that weapon! All three of the rogue trees are alreayd very focused on set weapons anyways.... why would you use these? A Great Club???? Sounds more like a brawler/basher that a rogue.
10) SSG have a very balanced way of distributing this to classes. This just throws that out of whack... rogues alreayd have a better than average crit profile anyways... and they get sneak on top of it all.

11) Hey, something I can finally get behind. But the sneak system needs a TOTAL overhaul... and SSG have shown no interest in trying again. There ARE ways to distract monsters... but once you have agro, its GG.

12) Argh, do you play a rogue? They have this. Try the trapmaking sometime... OK, it could be faster...but your laying traps. And because of the (buggy?) DCs they work really well. You can turn all of these spells into traps.
Cause Fear, Grease, Hypnotism, Sleep, Blindness, Daze Monster, Glitterdust, Hypnotic Pattern, Otto's Resistible Dance, Scare, Touch of Idiocy, Web, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Halt Undead, Hold Person, Slow
They can also make noisemakers (your distractors), elemental damage traps, grenades, etc....
Would be awesome though if they widened the range of spells and made a way of improving the traps caster level and spell power.... potentially a great class defining mechanic there!

13) Sounds like you want to roll a bard. this is a bard thing. This is so much a bard thing. Roll a bard.

14) Eh, they could, but why? Already got enough platnium.


Eh, I'm sorry... these changes just don't seem thematic, appropriate, balanced. Most of what you want could be accomplished by multiclassing to some extent, and thats what makes the game fun.
I will 100% support your suggestion to improve traps however!!!

Thanks for the input anyhow.
[Please do not 'snip' and read if you care ]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr8dNK4xBfo
(DRUMS) ' We introduce you the new UNIVERSAL TRAPPING TREE with its own EARLY Evasion and + 8 to reflex saves ! Instant Sneak attack and stealth mechanics powered up with blindness and auto crit ability!! It has sweet UMD boost, powerful social skill mechanics similar to Inquisitive!!! Gets More hp, dodge, prr/mrr and better run speed!!!! Gets a summon that blinds with Intelligence or Dexterity skill.It also supports Assasination skills!!!!!!! Intelligence/Wisdom/Dexterity/Constitution/Charisma to Hit and Damage !!!!! Gets bonus feats every -insert level- !!!!!!...You will not have to grab 2 levels of LOUSY rogue and pick LOUSY Human to get Rogue goodies anymore !!!!!!! You Do Not need Rogue anymore!!!!!!!! Everyone rejoice !!!1!!1!11!! '(DRUMS)



I play rogues allways as Intelligence builds. Never dexterity. ( Yes, sadly allways Harper and many times Vistani dipped in; even if not a dagger build just to grab some low hangin fruits. But hey. Why should I have to ? The one and only Dex rogue I played was Thief acrobat and it had no real chance without multiclassing in to other classes aswell. (No stealth builds for me since it fails hard compared to glitter, clouds, sleep or any other kind of magical aoe mumbo jumbo that makes a rogue's day for sneak attacks combined with actual spell or physical attacks. Open lock is allready an easy passable skill )

Spending alot of AP to non rogue enhancement trees and multiclassing bard,ranger,barbarian,fighter. Thats what everyone allready does. I had and have done that too for a decade... I really never saw a pure Rogue build other than Great crossbow Rogues whch is almost immediately treated as if another class; The Mechanic. (when supported by all those item sets and if can be past lives and multi in to monk/arti etc). Try Mechanic as pure rogue with all junk gear, no past lives no uber gear and without any high level guild friends passing you the required gear sets at Hardcore server or as a test dummy Permadeath build. Good luck to you out of Wilderness and at dungeons and closed spaces while soloing the content vs alarming swarm of npcs.


Mechanic is more like Artificer prototype and trial many years ago before Arti was released without the robo dog or lightning spells but in to Rogue level dependent/not so accurate alchemical traps and ofcourse clearly deep in to Great Crossbow...What does Arti do the best ? Crossbows/Fusiliade trick...)

Do we want a forgotten, junk class ?

Both Acrobat and Assasin enhancements get Dexterity to hit and damage with staves and small blades. Mechanic gets Intelligence to damage with Crossbows. Why not Int hit to damage for all Rogues, universally at T3 and T5 etc ? ( I allready have all universal trees and all adventures unlocked...So I am aware of mish mashing things up or Epic destinies or tem sets...But that is not the point here. The point here is bringing Rogue class and enhancements to a better place like Paladin, Monk, Warlock, Artificer, Fighter for feats or Cleric for domains are. Why does not rogue class deserve an update and remain a 'Dipped for 2 levels' for trapping and evasion only junk class ?...Guess what ? Players even start to build 1 level only rogue for trapping or even tell ' Rogue is not not needed; just avoid traps' for the last meta.

Granny does traps better...

A Paletrapper (Harper) makes much better rogue any day. Isnt this strange about aoe, cc and avoidance mechanics (vs weak sauce dodge mechancis of rogue ?) A Ranger with only single level of rogue still makes a better rogue isnt that also painful ? Paladin saves make a real rogue that can roll real saves...All painfull. Can anyone show me a standalone rogue at cc and avoidance and survival ( both saves and Hitpoints and lowering incoming damage ) without uber gear for reflex/dodge or T5 Vistani set? None of those are Rogue specialities.

Rogues can not socialise and shall not sing...

Almost all Bard builds that never fail hard, multiclass in to fighter, rogue ( 2 levels for trapping and early evasion only !), barb or some other class. Rogue meant to be better at skills and avoidance and instant KO mechanics. How come Swashbuckler/fighter/rogue or Artificier multiclass need only one or two levels of rogue. ( Yes ! 2 levels for trapping and early evasion. 1 level is better. Much stronger and survivable classes out there with evasion at later levels ! )

Your class is so fat that...

' Go play another class ' would be pretty empty words when we speak about better rogue mechancis to both solo and aid the team other than trapping. (Who really needs trapping with a rogue nowadays anyways ?) Do we still want to see 2 levels of rogue and 3 levels of bard, 6 or 11 levels of ranger , 2-6 levels of fighter, 2-6 levels of monk or fvs or similar mumbo jumbo till eternity ? [ I love multiclassing more than pure classing but hey you get me its all the same cookie cutter builds over and over again now ]

Living in the past...

If rogue class will never get updated by means of ability versitality, better avoidance mechanics and Better stealth mechanics, better combat and survival mechanics and to be a better handyman for the party guess what is going to happen next ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr8dNK4xBfo
(DRUMS) ' We introduce you the new UNIVERSAL TRAPPING TREE with its own EARLY Evasion and + 8 to reflex saves ! Instant Sneak attack and stealth mechanics powered up with blindness and auto crit ability!! It has sweet UMD boost, powerful social skill mechanics similar to Inquisitive!!! Gets More hp, dodge, prr/mrr and better run speed!!!! Gets a summon that blinds with Intelligence or Dexterity skill.It also supports Assasination skills!!!!!!! Intelligence/Wisdom/Dexterity/Constitution/Charisma to Hit and Damage !!!!! Gets bonus feats every -insert level- !!!!!!...You will not have to grab 2 levels of LOUSY rogue and pick LOUSY Human to get Rogue goodies anymore !!!!!!! You Do Not need Rogue anymore!!!!!!!! Everyone rejoice !!!1!!1!11!! '(DRUMS)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOs4pjHGcQU


Why would a classic class work solid on its own ? How will they sell the new universal trees or new classes ? Are these the questions at mind ? Is that my job ? I am a gamer and fan that respects the company, devs and the fellow gamers.

I allready buy the content and more and try to support the game. Do I have to mish mash a zillion trees and classes or have to buy everything just to make a virtual character function properly ? H3ll no...

I dropped a simple suggestion for the Rogue class, with all respect to the developers and the community, about Rogue class and mechanics, because I care for DDO game and the community itself. I would not sit down and write this useless post of mine; if I did not care about the game and the fellow gamers afterall.


My humble n00b cents. Stay cool my friends. Everybody loves Rogues.