Lesson Learned?

[droid327]

Never try to publish your "biggest patch notes ever" patch, including major changes to endgame mechanics, and mechanics based on your long-term record of playthroughs, after beta-testing it on a server with a "new chars only/no dojo" ruleset

There's so many issues coming up now that I feel could've been identified in beta (that, of course, being the whole point of a beta server) if we'd had a regular Lama build cycle, been able to actually test things with extant chars and in endgame content. Hardcore League could've gotten its own preview afterwards, it really should've been a standalone test.

I mean I applaud the audacity and ambitiousness, but really, in retrospect, was that not a horrible idea?

[Kylstrem]

I've been playing since the patch went live and enjoying myself.
Yeah, there are bugs, but none are "showstoppers"... some minor inconveniences.

People these days just look for ways to be victims of even the smallest of inconveniences.

[droid327]

I've been playing since the patch went live and enjoying myself.
Yeah, there are bugs, but none are "showstoppers"... some minor inconveniences.

People these days just look for ways to be victims of even the smallest of inconveniences.

I think there are plenty of serious bugs - though they may not affect your build directly

But beyond just the bugs, I think there's some major balance problems that could've been better judged in beta if we had access to all levels of play and not just L1-4

[FlavoredSoul]

The fact that this patch went live without at least another 2-3 weeks of QA with 1 or 2 more lammania builds (regular lamm) is a major embarrassment and PR nightmare, some builds have their core abilities broken entirely.

[Noir]

The fact that this patch went live without at least another 2-3 weeks of QA with 1 or 2 more lammania builds (regular lamm) is a major embarrassment and PR nightmare, some builds have their core abilities broken entirely.

Just curious, What build is entirely broken?
Why specifically are they broken? What about the update broke it?

[FlavoredSoul]

Just curious, What build is entirely broken?
Why specifically are they broken? What about the update broke it?

Pale Masters are one of the big ones.

Their slas are broken they went from being badly underpowered prepatch to borderline nonfunctional, doing 14 damage on a necrotic blast at endgame levels of nonfunctional.

Animate ally turns allies into zombies forever (or until relog).

A whole bunch of small abilities not giving their bonuses at all, things like defensive bits and dcs are missing.

forms (undead, sorc savant) dropping on relog/zoning/teleporting for no reason.

A bunch of cooldowns are just flat out wrong or can only be used once per rest (skeleton knight)

EDs are more buggy than prepatch, Draconic SLAs are borked, nature and grand master of flowers especially have many nonfunctional active abilities or passive abilities that don't match their descriptions at all.


This patch needed 2-4 weeks of extra QA work and at minimum 1 additional lammania test.

[Memnir]

Measure twice, cut once.

[Drwaz99]

All of the things that went wrong with this launch: the lack of testing, lack of listening to feedback, the sheer amount of broken and bugged items we saw have been happening since they were with Atari/Warner/Turbine years and years ago. If anything, it may have gotten worse. Have they learned? I'm going to have to go with a firm NO. They keep doing the same thing expecting it to go better but it never does. At some point a rational person would have to step back and reevaluate their approach.

But the same voices always tell them they are doing great and attempt to smother any criticism by reporting any critical post as a personal attack or derailing threads and unfortunately those are the voices that SSG chooses to listen to.

And here we are. *shrug*

[Noir]

Pale Masters are one of the big ones.

Their slas are broken they went from being badly underpowered prepatch to borderline nonfunctional, doing 14 damage on a necrotic blast at endgame levels of nonfunctional.

Animate ally turns allies into zombies forever (or until relog).

A whole bunch of small abilities not giving their bonuses at all, things like defensive bits and dcs are missing.

forms (undead, sorc savant) dropping on relog/zoning/teleporting for no reason.

A bunch of cooldowns are just flat out wrong or can only be used once per rest (skeleton knight)

EDs are more buggy than prepatch, Draconic SLAs are borked, nature and grand master of flowers especially have many nonfunctional active abilities or passive abilities that don't match their descriptions at all.


This patch needed 2-4 weeks of extra QA work and at minimum 1 additional lammania test.

Pale Master SLA's could not be meta-magiced before this went live. People for the most part did not rely on the SLA's prior to the update.
The class is in a lot better place post update due to the healing improvements and DC changes to the Magister Epic Destiny.

Being a Zombie doesn't break builds. It is just a mild inconvenience.

Pale master overall are in a better place then they were post update.
I went much deeper into the PM tree on my Main who is T5 in Archmage (Spell Focus Necromancy ) and now swapped from EA to the Magister ED to great affect.

I guess we'll disagree that PM is broken to the point of being unplayable.

[Potatofasf]

And MAC Players CAN'T log since yesterday patch...
So... how many people do you think are not playing the game due this marvelous Patch?

All is fine, said the ones refusing to take of the pink groupie googles.

[tinyelvis]

Pale Masters are one of the big ones.

Their slas are broken they went from being badly underpowered prepatch to borderline nonfunctional, doing 14 damage on a necrotic blast at endgame levels of nonfunctional.

Animate ally turns allies into zombies forever (or until relog).

A whole bunch of small abilities not giving their bonuses at all, things like defensive bits and dcs are missing.

forms (undead, sorc savant) dropping on relog/zoning/teleporting for no reason.

A bunch of cooldowns are just flat out wrong or can only be used once per rest (skeleton knight)

EDs are more buggy than prepatch, Draconic SLAs are borked, nature and grand master of flowers especially have many nonfunctional active abilities or passive abilities that don't match their descriptions at all.


This patch needed 2-4 weeks of extra QA work and at minimum 1 additional lammania test.

LOL, Obviously you haven't played a Pale Master? Be honest now.. have you played one since update? I have news for you, they are plenty tough now and will be uber once the few bugs are worked out. I know from first hand experience. IF someone calls them borderline non-functional, they must live in Bizzarro World. This mod was great. We are now getting more heroic XP. Even tried some old quests with new XP limits. It's amazing we got another mod so fast that does so much with so few real issues. That is why I continue to VIP. Keep up the good work. Don't let any of the boisterous sour puss Sally's get you all down. If mods keep coming this quick, I could live with ten times the bugs.. even real ones at that. The current minor ones are more funny than show stoppers.

[noinfo]

Pale Masters are one of the big ones.

Their slas are broken they went from being badly underpowered prepatch to borderline nonfunctional, doing 14 damage on a necrotic blast at endgame levels of nonfunctional.

Animate ally turns allies into zombies forever (or until relog).

A whole bunch of small abilities not giving their bonuses at all, things like defensive bits and dcs are missing.

forms (undead, sorc savant) dropping on relog/zoning/teleporting for no reason.

A bunch of cooldowns are just flat out wrong or can only be used once per rest (skeleton knight)

EDs are more buggy than prepatch, Draconic SLAs are borked, nature and grand master of flowers especially have many nonfunctional active abilities or passive abilities that don't match their descriptions at all.


This patch needed 2-4 weeks of extra QA work and at minimum 1 additional lammania test.

PM are not broken in the slightest. Before the patch the sla were garbage and after they still are and had nothing to do with the core power of a PM. Before the patch animate ally was just a griefing tool now its just a griefing tool. There are a lot of little things needing fixing but nothing end of the world.

[SatansToupee]

PM are not broken in the slightest. Before the patch the sla were garbage and after they still are and had nothing to do with the core power of a PM. Before the patch animate ally was just a griefing tool now its just a griefing tool. There are a lot of little things needing fixing but nothing end of the world.

at least you get to play a broken game

[droid327]

PM are not broken in the slightest. Before the patch the sla were garbage and after they still are and had nothing to do with the core power of a PM. Before the patch animate ally was just a griefing tool now its just a griefing tool. There are a lot of little things needing fixing but nothing end of the world.

If your argument is that it's just as broken now as it was before...then what did the patch accomplish? Shouldn't a patch actually, you know...fix the broken parts?

If anything it seems you're just validating that the patch needed a full test cycle, that it wasn't properly vetted before going live

[noinfo]

If your argument is that it's just as broken now as it was before...then what did the patch accomplish? Shouldn't a patch actually, you know...fix the broken parts?

If anything it seems you're just validating that the patch needed a full test cycle, that it wasn't properly vetted before going live

Except for the garbage sla and clicky most stuff improved. Wider options independent of form, all being good. Somethings went down others up.

Overall it was positive.

There is only one game breaking issue and that is for Mac users. Though I am not sure that testing on lam would have fixed that.

But by all means keep ranting- your example of PM being unplayable is garbage.

[FlavoredSoul]

Except for the garbage sla and clicky most stuff improved. Wider options independent of form, all being good. Somethings went down others up.

Overall it was positive.

There is only one game breaking issue and that is for Mac users. Though I am not sure that testing on lam would have fixed that.

But by all means keep ranting- your example of PM being unplayable is garbage.

I find it funny that you focused on the two things in my list that were also bad before the patch... handwaved them as such, and then ignored the rest.

Also Droid is a different user than me.

[FlavoredSoul]

LOL, Obviously you haven't played a Pale Master? Be honest now.. have you played one since update? I have news for you, they are plenty tough now and will be uber once the few bugs are worked out. I know from first hand experience. IF someone calls them borderline non-functional, they must live in Bizzarro World. This mod was great. We are now getting more heroic XP. Even tried some old quests with new XP limits. It's amazing we got another mod so fast that does so much with so few real issues. That is why I continue to VIP. Keep up the good work. Don't let any of the boisterous sour puss Sally's get you all down. If mods keep coming this quick, I could live with ten times the bugs.. even real ones at that. The current minor ones are more funny than show stoppers.

I honestly can't tell if your posts are sarcastic or not, EXP nerfs = "more exp" praising bugs and saying you support even more of them?

This has to be a joke.

[MasterKernel]

Except for the garbage sla and clicky most stuff improved. Wider options independent of form, all being good. Somethings went down others up.

Overall it was positive.

Our spaceship have launched successfully, reached the outer space and did some researches. Who cares if it crashed afterwards, astronauts died, equipment burned and research data is lost ? Overall it was positive !

:-\

[noinfo]

I find it funny that you focused on the two things in my list that were also bad before the patch... handwaved them as such, and then ignored the rest.

Also Droid is a different user than me.

I find it funny you launch into a series of complaints as if its the end of the world! If you were a mac user then I might have some sympathy for your position. I will keep playing with all these world ending issues, oh no my PM form has dropped on logging in I guess I better log out. Or you know I can turn it on.

[noinfo]

Our spaceship have launched successfully, reached the outer space and did some researches. Who cares if it crashed afterwards, astronauts died, equipment burned and research data is lost ? Overall it was positive !

:-\

Its more like the ship landed perfectly but the landing was bumpy.