So Elves can Be AA regardless of class, expand that

[Kaboom2112]

It could be interesting to see certain trees available for races like how AA is available for Elves/helves.

For example, give all dwarves access to Stalwart defender, all Drow access to Tempest (yeah, I know, just what we nee, more D'rizzt clones), all Dragonborn access to the Savant that matches their dragon type, etc . . . .

Would open up a bunch of interesting build combinations and maybe freshen things up in the meta.

[Grailhawk]

I like the idea think its great. I also think it died 3-4 dev generations ago.

Also think its probably too much work my understanding is that Ranger AA and Elf AA are actually two different trees with there own set of unique enhancements. (I would have though this was easy Copy-Past work but based on comments related to having 6 stat choices in all the ED Trees I'm thinking maybe its not).

Aasimar - Radiant Servant
Dragonborn - Savant
Drow - Tempest
Dwarf - Defender
Elf - Arcane Archer
Half Elf - Based on Dilettante

• Artificer - Battle Engineer
• Barbarian - Frenzied Berserker
• Bard - Swashbuckler
• Cleric - Warpriest
• Druid - Season's Herald
• Favored Soul - Beacon of Hope
• Fighter - Kensei
• Monk - Ninja
• Paladin - Sacred Defender
• Ranger - Arcane Archer
• Rogue - Assassin
• Sorcerer - Eldritch Knight
• Warlock - Tainted Scholar
• Wizard - Archmage

Halfling - Thief Acrobat
Half-Orc - Ravager
Human - Swasbuckler
Tiefling - Soul Eater
Warforged - Renegade Mastermaker
Wood Elf - Kensei

[NemesisAlien]

It could be interesting to see certain trees available for races like how AA is available for Elves/helves.

For example, give all dwarves access to Stalwart defender, all Drow access to Tempest (yeah, I know, just what we nee, more D'rizzt clones), all Dragonborn access to the Savant that matches their dragon type, etc . . . .

Would open up a bunch of interesting build combinations and maybe freshen things up in the meta.

To be fair, according to the books most drow dual weld, not all, but most.

[SoVeryBelgian]

That seems like a LOT of code work, plus it kinda makes Multiclass redundant in a sense.

That said, I would GREATLY appreciate the cost reduction of Elf / Half-Elf AA Tree from 4 AP to 2 AP please. It's already 3 tiers up in the tree and locked behind 12 AP (due to needing the DC bonus Enhancement).



The idea of Tempest for Drow and either Vanguard or Stalwart Defender being available to Dwarves DOES intrigue me though.

[Xgya]

I like the idea think its great. I also think it died 3-4 dev generations ago.

Also think its probably too much work my understanding is that Ranger AA and Elf AA are actually two different trees with there own set of unique enhancements. (I would have though this was easy Copy-Past work but based on comments related to having 6 stat choices in all the ED Trees I'm thinking maybe its not).

Aasimar - Radiant Servant
Dragonborn - Savant
Drow - Tempest
Dwarf - Defender
Elf - Arcane Archer
Half Elf - Based on Dilettante

• Artificer - Battle Engineer
• Barbarian - Frenzied Berserker
• Bard - Swashbuckler
• Cleric - Warpriest
• Druid - Season's Herald
• Favored Soul - Beacon of Hope
• Fighter - Kensei
• Monk - Ninja
• Paladin - Sacred Defender
• Ranger - Arcane Archer
• Rogue - Assassin
• Sorcerer - Eldritch Knight
• Warlock - Tainted Scholar
• Wizard - Archmage

Halfling - Thief Acrobat
Half-Orc - Ravager
Human - Swasbuckler
Tiefling - Soul Eater
Warforged - Renegade Mastermaker
Wood Elf - Kensei

Imma say I'd rather keep the least-used trees in those choices. Many of your picks just give easier access to already-popular class trees.
Giving Arcane Archer to elves isn't too much, because the tree in itself isn't that strong, and the price to pay to get it rather steep.

Giving access to the trees that give sorcs all their power to a Dragonborn *insert other caster class* sounds like mucho, MUCHO overkill.

A race getting access to another class' abilities should be a niche use, fun, flavorful, and probably not as powerful as the other available options.
If someone wants to make an elven FvS praying to the Silver Flame, let them shoot arrows.
No problem there, it's fun, having done it, it can feel quite rewarding, but it in no way outclasses people that went for sheer power over flavor.

For that reason, I wouldn't mind extending that privilege of having access to another class' stuff to halflings (and 'nomes - you forgot about gnomes), by letting them show of Thief-Acrobatics.

If that Trance ability didn't rest in that tree, I wouldn't mind letting Aasimar get access to Warpriest either (though I don't think they need anything more to be a pretty powerful race as-is)
Letting them access that one powerful ability many people have splashed levels for means it's probably not a good idea.

[Enoach]

Back when the Arcane Archer was added to the Elf as an option there was discussion that other races would get a "flavor" tree added.

I think part of what back-burner'd this was the time taken to expand and update the class trees and the universal trees that were added.

I do agree that I would like to see more races with these racial accessible trees.

[droid327]

This idea became kinda redundant with Universal Trees. That seems to be the way they're going to unlock new abilities without being tied to specific classes

Also, Elf and AA both need the help. Giving Humans Swashbuckler or something would be grossly overpowered as both Humans and Swashbucklers are worth building around on their own.

Plus, keep in mind that in the long run, Racial trees are better than Class trees because you can get full benefit (including capstone) while still being able to go with any level split you want, including pure. Splashing a class for a tree requires 5 levels of that class to get T5, and the cores require even more.

So a Human Swash Pure FvS, for example, could get the full benefits of FvS while still being able to go 41 points in Swash, getting CHA to everything...full combat, full DC casting and spellbook, etc.

You could also even create otherwise impossible combinations - a Horc Ravager Pure Monk, for example, getting +2 Crit Range and Blood Strength to go with a Shuriken or Whirlwind build

There could be an argument for maybe specific new racial trees - Dwarf Stal Def is a good one - but they'd have to be currently underserved races...which I think is pretty much just dwarf and halfling and maybe helf. Halfling Radiant Servant and Helf Air Savant might create some interesting build options.

[Kaboom2112]

This idea became kinda redundant with Universal Trees.

Wrong.

[GeoffWatson]

There were plans to do this, back when the current enhancement trees first came out.
But there wasn't a way to monetize them, so the plans were abandoned.
I guess the universal trees are the current version, as they are paid for.

[droid327]

Wrong.

No, right

Universal trees are how they're adding in new non-class enhancements now. RTR is how they decided to keep every race relevant. There's no design impetus now to bring back racial trees as a broad-reaching system, the idea is redundant

[Kaboom2112]

No, right

Universal trees are how they're adding in new non-class enhancements now. RTR is how they decided to keep every race relevant. There's no design impetus now to bring back racial trees as a broad-reaching system, the idea is redundant

Wrong

[Kaboom2112]

There were plans to do this, back when the current enhancement trees first came out.
But there wasn't a way to monetize them, so the plans were abandoned.
I guess the universal trees are the current version, as they are paid for.

See, this I can accept.

[janave]

It would be super nice if AA became a universal tree, then Elves could get AA enhancements similar to Domain and Pact Feats, and/or free action points to spend in AA. It would feel much cleaner, right now unlocking elven AA feels like a penalty instead of a boon.

On the lower tier abilities many more ranged builds could take advantage, while keeping the primary focus for shortbow and longbow builds.



Kinda the feel the same about Mechanic, tho that one is unlikely to become decoupled from Rogue...

[PsychoBlonde]

My suggestion would be to restrict this to human/elf/dwarf/halfling/warforged/half-elf/half-orc as an options boost, since the other races are generally pretty powerful on their own.

Human: Eldritch Knight
Elf: Arcane Archer
Dwarf: Stalwart Defender
Halfling: Thief Acrobat
Warforged: Mechanic
Half Elf: Air Savant
Half Orc: Ravager