Good time to nerf divine might analogs and barb run speed to be based on class levels

[Tilomere]

While all the other balancing is going on, it would be a good time to nerf divine might and its divine presence/will analogs to be like divine grace and capped on class levels, and to also nerf barb run speed to be also based on barb levels (say 5% + 0.5% per level).

Like reaper points, these provide an insurmountable advantage to /1 splash for veterans over pure classes of newer players in heroic balance.

For example, a first life pure dragonborn fighter at level 4 would have 20 base + 1 level + 4 pot (enhancement) +2 ship = 27 strength (+8 to hit and damage and tactics).

However a veteran 2 fighter 1 cleric 1 barb would not only move faster, it would also have 20 base + 4 pot (enhancement) + 5 racial completionist + 3 tome + 2 yugo +2 ship = 36 charisma = 13 strength from divine might.

The veteran 2 fighter 1 cleric barb would have a 20 base + 1 level + 4 pot (enhancement) + 3 racial completionist + 3 tome + 2 yugo + 2 ship + 13 (divine might) +4 (rage) = 52 strength (+21 to hit and damage and tactics).

For the same reasons a veteran having 150 hitpoints from reaper points at level 4 was insurmountable to a newer player and was nerfed to 50 hitpoints, +21 to hit and damage and tactics from a faster moving veteran with divine might in heroics should also be brought closer to the +8 and speed of a newer player, and capping divine might analogs and barb run speed by class levels is the way to do so.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I really hope this is sarcasm.

[Tilomere]

Hey, I'm all for balancing lower levels to be more welcoming for retaining newer players.

Plus, we don't want to nerf in update 43, then just have a buncha power gamers swap to the next OP splash or thing, and nerf them again in update 44 and make them twice as unhappy. Even you have to admit it is just good timing.

[FlavoredSoul]

How about no?

[droid327]

Wow those grapes are sour...

If you want to make the Reaper analogy though, its not capped on class levels...its capped on character levels. So maybe Divine Might caps out at (Level * 2) Str bonus. Which wouldnt be nearly that bad - its usually overkill as it is - but that kinda disproves your sardonic point if itd prove to be a reasonable change.

[Indoran]

Hey, I'm all for balancing lower levels to be more welcoming for retaining newer players.

Plus, we don't want to nerf in update 43, then just have a buncha power gamers swap to the next OP splash or thing, and nerf them again in update 44 and make them twice as unhappy. Even you have to admit it is just good timing.

look buddy, some people worked really hard to NOT be balanced. if you don't like it... sorry ddo is just not balanced the way you want.

and ddo doesn't need that... you need to learn to play.

[rabidfox]

Like reaper points, these provide an insurmountable advantage to /1 splash for veterans over pure classes of newer players in heroic balance.

They don't really relate; a brand new player can splash barbarian too. New players being able to grab run speed slightly helps them keep up with older players that have other speed boost means. Certain powers being front-loaded is fair as long as everyone has the option to use it from 1st life.

[Tilomere]

They don't really relate; a brand new player can splash barbarian too.

The substantial power advantage of a veteran means they can function off reduced primary class levels, while a newer player may not be able to.

Splashing evasion is similiar. If a new player does it, they pop anyways because they don't have the reflex saves to go with it, and the loss of 2 levels can be devastating to their build. If a veteran does it, they are 95% immune to reflex damage and have enough hp anyways to take the rare hit, and they are powerful enough that their build still works. Both can do it, but the veteran actually makes it work.

[HungarianRhapsody]

The substantial power advantage of a veteran means they can function off reduced primary class levels, while a newer player may not be able to.

Splashing evasion is similiar. If a new player does it, they pop anyways because they don't have the reflex saves to go with it, and the loss of 2 levels can be devastating to their build. If a veteran does it, they are 95% immune to reflex damage and have enough hp anyways to take the rare hit, and they are powerful enough that their build still works. Both can do it, but the veteran actually makes it work.

I think that the thing SSG really needs to add is a difficulty level selector where players could choose the level of difficulty that they want in quests. That way, veteran players with solid gear and past lives and reaper points could play at a higher level while new players could run those same quests on an easier setting. And since there is a need for players to learn a quest at their own pace and vets might not want to go that slowly with them, we should probably ask SSG to make it even more easy on the lower difficulty “normal” mode (i.e. not elite mode) when you’re running solo by reducing enemy HP and numbers of enemies in the quest.

That way way everyone can enjoy the game whether they’re new or a vet.

I know now that would be a lot of work, but I think it would be a great change for the game.

[Ralmeth]

I could see Favored Soul and Cleric Divine Might moving to tier 2 as this is where Paladins get it, but I also don't think this is a big deal either. As for Barbarian run speed, I don't really see a problem that needs nerfing. There's nothing more Barbarian like than zerging ahead, so the ability seems appropriate. It may only be 1 level, but that locks you out of taking a different class that might have other benefits you could use.

[Ralmeth]

I think that the thing SSG really needs to add is a difficulty level selector where players could choose the level of difficulty that they want in quests. That way, veteran players with solid gear and past lives and reaper points could play at a higher level while new players could run those same quests on an easier setting. And since there is a need for players to learn a quest at their own pace and vets might not want to go that slowly with them, we should probably ask SSG to make it even more easy on the lower difficulty “normal” mode (i.e. not elite mode) when you’re running solo by reducing enemy HP and numbers of enemies in the quest.

That way way everyone can enjoy the game whether they’re new or a vet.

I know now that would be a lot of work, but I think it would be a great change for the game.

That is such a good idea!!! Make it so, please

[Hutoth]

I think that the thing SSG really needs to add is a difficulty level selector where players could choose the level of difficulty that they want in quests. That way, veteran players with solid gear and past lives and reaper points could play at a higher level while new players could run those same quests on an easier setting. And since there is a need for players to learn a quest at their own pace and vets might not want to go that slowly with them, we should probably ask SSG to make it even more easy on the lower difficulty “normal” mode (i.e. not elite mode) when you’re running solo by reducing enemy HP and numbers of enemies in the quest.

That way way everyone can enjoy the game whether they’re new or a vet.

I know now that would be a lot of work, but I think it would be a great change for the game.

you may have all of the +1s

[Drecas]

NERF EVERYTING NAO

Make DDO Great Again!

[psykopeta]

The substantial power advantage of a veteran means they can function off reduced primary class levels, while a newer player may not be able to.

Splashing evasion is similiar. If a new player does it, they pop anyways because they don't have the reflex saves to go with it, and the loss of 2 levels can be devastating to their build. If a veteran does it, they are 95% immune to reflex damage and have enough hp anyways to take the rare hit, and they are powerful enough that their build still works. Both can do it, but the veteran actually makes it work.

Damm tilo why aren't you posting some new builds! Critzilla needs a reborn!

Like other said, to make it closer to reaper reatriction, it should be char lvl, not class lvl, i mean after the divine grace strike it's not common to see pally splits for saves since they cap really low

But capping kta, divine might, etc lvll*2 the conversion, would keep being useful (at lvl 30 you would need max 130 in the relevant stat, which is investing enough to say "now invest in another stat" lol) and at low lvls it would be more restrictive

Not for me, tho, at these lvls (and generally) i wouldn't be able to hit the cap suggested

[Haphazarduk]

Get rid of difficulty levels altogether. Have individual scaling for damage output and incoming damage so players at different capabilities can both contribute.

Get rid of Reapers - they destroy immersion. Simply buff existing mobs instead and spend the time being spent on new reapers/mechanics on adding special new challenges/abilities to existing bosses.

We need workable grouping mechanics and a healthier player base per server (or cross server lfms).

Hap

[Tilomere]

Looking at Update 43 has got me thinking maybe it's time for multiclassed builds to be retired from DDO. The amount of iterative past lives and power accumulation breaks small splashes in ways that aren't good for grouping and is far outside of how they operate in real D&D. Plus it screws up the ability to have solid low level character development.

Year after year they are going to have to continue eliminating multi-classed builds that cross over the line as power accumulates and spend all this time reworking the game for added character power breaking splashes, only to make a lot of players frustrated. Maybe it's time instead to start looking at just yanking the whole thing out by the root.

Ya, I wanted individual difficulty levels as well.

[Renvar]

maybe it's time for multiclassed builds to be retired from DDO.

This is one of the worst ideas I've seen espoused in a long time on these forums. The flexibility of the character creation, building, and multi-classing system is usually listed as one of the top strengths of the game by most veterans who have stayed around for a decade or longer and are spending money.

Get rid of it and you will lose a lot of players and revenue as your game becomes cookie-cutter like every other fantasy MMO.

No thanks.

There is no way to nerf multi-classing or early class features to balance completionist vets and new players. That is a fool's errand. It can't be done. Nor should it. So, I've invested years into a character, possibly a lot of money, and have spent a lot of time researching and testing build concepts to find one that is optimal, but it is not substantially better than a brand new character playing a basic build? That makes sense how? Progression is the whole point of an MMO. Otherwise, just play single play thru games.

[Carpone]

maybe it's time for multiclassed builds to be retired from DDO

You're out of touch with reality if you think removing a sacred cow from D&D is up for discussion.

[Wh070aa]

Looking at Update 43 has got me thinking maybe it's time for multiclassed builds to be retired from DDO.

Multi classing is literally the thing that makes DDO stand out from ****** WoW clone. Other thing is Traps and stealth mechanics in older quests, but they abandoned alternate win conditions and play styles besides run and kill for few years now, so in depth character building is only thing going for this game. Mean that and DnD brand name, and the Sunk Cost Fallacy.

They really, REALLY need to rework capstones, instead of killing off yet another fun aspect of the game. IMO capstones should be cool active abilities that affect game play a lot. Not this "Oo lets remove abilities that make classes feel unique" stuff you are trying.

[Xgya]

I tend to agree, at least about the Barbarian speed, though I might let the bonus be fully earned with a 6-level splash - 4 + 1/level. Paying only 1 level for such a strong feature is too little, much like the few levels for the attack speed from Druids was deemed too little.
That's as many levels as it takes Monks to reach that point, so it sounds fair enough.

I disagree about changing Trances, mostly because those are available in non-class-restricted form. Nerfing the class versions thereof would only push for the non-class ones.
Alternatively, given you're aiming for multiclass builds, you could suggest changing the non-class-restricted trances, like KtA, to be maxed out at the same rate, but using your highest level class, favoring pure builds a bit more over time.