Good time to nerf divine might analogs and barb run speed to be based on class levels

[Emerge2012]

I love how people that consistently run bad builds are always the ones that want to knock everyone else down the ladder.

Stop being petty and learn how to climb.

[Clemeit]

So to shoehorn your argument that Divine Might is too powerful you throw in a nearly absolute min/max situation (yugo pots, completionist, tomes) and compare the strength of a fighter with that of a barbarian split? You do understand that your two example are completely incompatible, right?

It boils down to this: someone who has invested years into this game farming every PL and studying build mechanics and class synergy is more powerful than someone who just started.

Wow what a concept.

We should probably take people's PLs away and scrap the TR Cache system - each new life you start out with nothing from the previous life because that would clearly be unfair.

[Bunker]

So to shoehorn your argument that Divine Might is too powerful you throw in a nearly absolute min/max situation (yugo pots, completionist, tomes) and compare the strength of a fighter with that of a barbarian split? You do understand that your two example are completely incompatible, right?

It boils down to this: someone who has invested years into this game farming every PL and studying build mechanics and class synergy is more powerful than someone who just started.

Wow what a concept.

We should probably take people's PLs away and scrap the TR Cache system - each new life you start out with nothing from the previous life because that would clearly be unfair.

Agreed. Tilo's post has variables that he uses to twist the narrative of his idea. But the comparison are way off as a result.

[Clemeit]

That means the the splashes used solely to amplify intended differences in power which screw up base class design need to get nuked.

This statement is such a gem. You know what makes DDO so great? It's the exceptional diversity it offers in regards to multiclassing - synergy between seemingly unrelated enhancement trees, feat combinations, and numerous fighting styles to name but a few. Are you suggesting that we punish players who seek to gain a competitive edge by theorizing, planning, and executing new builds? Or are you suggesting that multiclassing should never lead to a result superior to that of a pure? Last I checked, the main reason players splash classes is to get an edge on pure builds. Multiclassing successfully takes more knowledge and skill, often requires more past-lives and their subsequent benefits (tomes, gear, PL feats), and is more risky than staying pure. The game rewards players for their past accomplishments and for exploring new possibilities. Wolf is a great recent example, but there were those before: Cetus build, Juggernaughts, God Hand... It's a constant arms race between players and the developers' balancing attempts. This sort of exploration should be rewarded and even encouraged. It's healthy. And it's fun.

Your base argument might have had some merit, but you lose people when you suggest essentially scrapping the multiclassing system by "nuking" splashes that bring out the best in multiple classes.

[GramercyRiff]

Game is already not like Dungeons and Dragons so ok.

j/k no don't do any of what is suggested in the op.

[HuneyMunster]

I actually agree with "nerfing" these abilities (well, not nerfing, but binding them to class), because, frankly, they are and always have been OP for splashes instead of providing needed boosting to the MAIN class that the ability comes from. They also over-reward off-stat builds, which should properly need investment just to COME UP TO strength instead of actually being UNIVERSALLY BETTER than straight strength builds. Hit/damage is THE ONLY THING that strength does (well, and a couple of abilities that lag well behind pretty much every other ability in the game). ALL of the other stats have alternative value. This was done with the whole paladin saving throws thing and I think it overall improved the game dramatically. However, that still leaves the question of what are you going to do about Know the Angles and Deadly Instinct, since they're not tied to any class? I'd honestly say move them up to T5 in those trees (even though my main arti uses KTA . . . I can live without it and get a few points back better spent elsewhere.) They're AT LEAST as powerful as other T5 abilities--more so, in fact, they're often the only abilities that you invest in Falconry or Harper to GET.

They should also boost the Stunning Blow (and maybe also Trip) feat DC to include your class levels in all "melee" classes, so, Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, and Paladin. That would bring at least a little more tactical access to those classes.

Problem with moving KtA would make most non-strength builds have no reliable CC as Dire Charge is only option for these builds. Dire Charge usually requires KtA to be usable in a number of end game content.

As for thing like Stunning Blow, Trip, Improved Trip it would be better to change them to match Stunning Fist DC. For example Stunning Fist (DC = 10 + half character levels + Wis mod + other modifiers) vs Stunning Blow (DC: 10 + Strength modifier + other modifiers) which is a +15 DC boost at cap.

[Duhboy]

This statement is such a gem. You know what makes DDO so great? It's the exceptional diversity it offers in regards to multiclassing - synergy between seemingly unrelated enhancement trees, feat combinations, and numerous fighting styles to name but a few. Are you suggesting that we punish players who seek to gain a competitive edge by theorizing, planning, and executing new builds? Or are you suggesting that multiclassing should never lead to a result superior to that of a pure? Last I checked, the main reason players splash classes is to get an edge on pure builds. Multiclassing successfully takes more knowledge and skill, often requires more past-lives and their subsequent benefits (tomes, gear, PL feats), and is more risky than staying pure. The game rewards players for their past accomplishments and for exploring new possibilities. Wolf is a great recent example, but there were those before: Cetus build, Juggernaughts, God Hand... It's a constant arms race between players and the developers' balancing attempts. This sort of exploration should be rewarded and even encouraged. It's healthy. And it's fun.

Your base argument might have had some merit, but you lose people when you suggest essentially scrapping the multiclassing system by "nuking" splashes that bring out the best in multiple classes.

Couldn't said it better myself. I'm still quite fond of my 18 barb/ 1 fighter/ 1 fvs for divine might. However there is give and take to it just like any multi-class build which has been said before takes experience, planning (gear, stats, tomes, etc). I love this game for the immense amounts of customization you can do with your character in terms of multi-classing or not. It has been a staple for years and shouldn't be changed for any reason.