Wolf builds getting nerfed hard

[Grace_ana]

[*](The following Druid changes didn't make the Lamannia build in time, but are currently planned for this Patch. This change is meant to adjust certain overperforming multiclass Wolf splits while keeping overall impact on pure Druid/invested Nature's Warrior Wolf builds low).

• Druid: The Combat Speed Bonus to Attack Speed in Wolf Form is now 10%.
• Druid: The Combat Speed Bonus to Attack Speed in Winter Wolf Form is now 20%.
• Druid Nature's Warrior: Swift Hunter (in Nature's Warrior) now also increases Wolf Form's Combat Speed Bonus to Attack Speed to 15%, and Winter Wolf Form's Combat Speed Bonus to Attack Speed to 30%.

[/LIST]

Just...why? And how does that not hurt ALL wolf builds? And why did you just slide it in without, you know, starting a thread about it? (I'm quite sure I know the answer to the last one.)

[Drecas]

And here I was, just about to start a wolf life. Thanks for the heads up, guess I'll keep avoiding the druid class.

[HungarianRhapsody]

And here I was, just about to start a wolf life. Thanks for the heads up, guess I'll keep avoiding the druid class.

How long does it take you to get through a life? Now is the perfect time to do a Druid life if you’re going to be done by the next patch.

[Drecas]

How long does it take? Dude, I started my current life just before U33.
It takes me several months to complete a life, sometimes even over a year. I can't commit to something like this if I know it's going to be nerfed. My current life is suffering from this very thing, made a build, it got nerfed, took a short break and once I had come back, it had been nerfed again. It has not been fun trying to hit level 20 with a doubly nerfed gimp.

[ChadB123]

Just...why? And how does that not hurt ALL wolf builds? And why did you just slide it in without, you know, starting a thread about it? (I'm quite sure I know the answer to the last one.)

Just...why? Because certain wolf splits have too high DPS output compared to other DPS build. This is a much needed change, and I'm surprised it took them this long. Anyone who cares about game balance will support the reasonable wolf attack speed adjustments. Tying attack speed to a tier 5 ability is great idea. A similar idea would be placing it in the cores.

[Kaboom2112]

Just...why? Because certain wolf splits have too high DPS output compared to other DPS build.

Those stupid dual crossbow builds are far more broken. Wolf is strong but not OP enough to need a nerf.

[droid327]

I'm...yeah. Its a valid nerf. 30% attack speed takes 3 feats with SWF, having it tied to just 8 levels of Druid was a bit OP considering it worked with any weapon, and synergized perfectly with Natural Fighting, and then again with Silvanus, and still left you your T5 open.

Multipliers are the great evil of balance, because they allow otherwise acceptable differences to get magnified beyond acceptability. That's what happened with wolf maul builds - it just synergized too well, for too little opportunity cost. 18-20/x3 + 12% DS and MP + 30% attack speed + THF base die is the best of all possible worlds, and you could have it by level 14 when that really should be a 20-level build with a T5.

[AbyssalMage]

Just...why? And how does that not hurt ALL wolf builds? And why did you just slide it in without, you know, starting a thread about it? (I'm quite sure I know the answer to the last one.)

Why? Because they don't accept feedback from players who actually understand the game.

It destroys all Wolf Builds but that isn't their concern. Same as destroying Paladins. Same as destroying Barbarians. In the end, they got what they wanted which was an influx of money. It's time to nerf them and return them back to where they came from. They got their money.

Why didn't they start a thread about it? Yeah we know that answer. Although on further thought with the XP nerf it would have been the perfect time so I guess there is a reasonable and or plausible expectation that they forgot.

[AbyssalMage]

I'm...yeah. Its a valid nerf. 30% attack speed takes 3 feats with SWF, having it tied to just 8 levels of Druid was a bit OP considering it worked with any weapon, and synergized perfectly with Natural Fighting, and then again with Silvanus, and still left you your T5 open.

Multipliers are the great evil of balance, because they allow otherwise acceptable differences to get magnified beyond acceptability. That's what happened with wolf maul builds - it just synergized too well, for too little opportunity cost. 18-20/x3 + 12% DS and MP + 30% attack speed + THF base die is the best of all possible worlds, and you could have it by level 14 when that really should be a 20-level build with a T5.

No it isn't. A valid nerf would have been fixing the Cleric/FvS crit multiplier that was stacking with everything.

[HungarianRhapsody]

No it isn't. A valid nerf would have been fixing the Cleric/FvS crit multiplier that was stacking with everything.

OR make you take the T5 Wolf enhancements to get the full 30%, but make the other T5 wolf enhancements less garbage-y.

[palladin9479]

OR make you take the T5 Wolf enhancements to get the full 30%, but make the other T5 wolf enhancements less garbage-y.

Wolf builds were indeed broken, anytime you see that kind of (8/6/6) split it's an obvious build exploit. Putting it behind a T5 enhancement at least forces people to scale down their builds and put more points into druid. Ranged builds are also a bit broken, especially that silly down crossbow one. All mage builds are broken too, though it's only really noticeably in mid to higher reaper. Reaper offensive bonus's need to be toned way down such that they aren't lethal to anything that gets near them.

[Emerge2012]

Wolf builds were indeed broken, anytime you see that kind of (8/6/6) split it's an obvious build exploit. Putting it behind a T5 enhancement at least forces people to scale down their builds and put more points into druid. Ranged builds are also a bit broken, especially that silly down crossbow one. All mage builds are broken too, though it's only really noticeably in mid to higher reaper. Reaper offensive bonus's need to be toned way down such that they aren't lethal to anything that gets near them.

And by "especially that silly crossbow one" you really mean "only" that silly crossbow one. Don't forget next update will mostly nuke DC casters that aren't running in Magister as mob saves vs spells are getting a considerable boost.

Tough sell to nerf a dog when Inq is already light years above everything else and PM is about to join it.

[Xgya]

All the other builds required getting to level 12 and spending 31+ AP or spending 3 feats to get that same attack speed bonus.

This is a balance patch.

While you DO see a lot of wolf builds wearing heavier armor, the core principle of wolf builds was originally to make them lightly armored strikers, hence their access to evasion, sneak attack and other light armor staples.

While I agree that the other T5 in wolf are lackluster, this change makes them relevant.

[Emerge2012]

All the other builds required getting to level 12 and spending 31+ AP or spending 3 feats to get that same attack speed bonus.

This is a balance patch.

While you DO see a lot of wolf builds wearing heavier armor, the core principle of wolf builds was originally to make them lightly armored strikers, hence their access to evasion, sneak attack and other light armor staples.

While I agree that the other T5 in wolf are lackluster, this change makes them relevant.

I'll keep that in mind as I use cure spells to heal the palemaster in the group while machine gun builds mow down mobs.

[Fedora1]

Wolf builds were indeed broken,

Maybe, I don't know, never played one. Seems like it though.

anytime you see that kind of (8/6/6) split it's an obvious build exploit.

People use the word "exploit" so loosely. Examples?

I see a lot of builds that use splits like this for low-hanging fruit on something only going to 20 and TR/RR. I'd hardly call front-loaded builds (that sacrifice higher level or longer term abilities) an exploit.

[Cantor]

I see a lot of builds that use splits like this for low-hanging fruit on something only going to 20 and TR/RR.

That's the point, this is a build that plays at cap, not a 20 tr build.

I feel the nerf is fair, tying the speed to t5 is valid. SWF speed with a twohander and natural fighting is a lot. I do agree that the tree could use some more in it though to not make it giving everything up for the speed. It's never been a good tree.

I would make it a multi-selector for unarmored-light-heavy/medium that gives different benefits.

[TedSandyman]

Anytime a nerf happens, of course the people playing that class are going to get angry.

But I don't understand why every time a nerf happens, the consensus is that the build is suddenly not worth playing.

It will still have high DPS just not as high as it was. And maybe just as high, but later on. If I were thinking of playing a druid, this would not change my mind.

This change is making multi-classing with the druid less beneficial for sure.

If ALL you care about is having the most overpowered toon possible and you just want to hobble together some different things to do that, then yeah, this isn't going to be great for you.

I personally feel you are missing the point of playing the game if you are that concerned, but that is just my opinion.

You will simply have to split the next best thing and go from there. I don't think you care too much about druid and just care about squeezing the max DPS out of any build.

If you really like playing druid, then yeah, you are a little less powerful early on. You will have to wait a bit to get the 30%. But it is still going to be a fun class to play.

[Fedora1]

That's the point, this is a build that plays at cap, not a 20 tr build..

And my point was not to throw all heavy build splits under the same "exploit" bus. That's all.

[Emerge2012]

If ALL you care about is having the most overpowered toon possible and you just want to hobble together some different things to do that, then yeah, this isn't going to be great for you.

I personally feel you are missing the point of playing the game if you are that concerned, but that is just my opinion.

Character customization and min maxing is what makes DDO what it is. If you don't agree with that then I'd say it's you who are the one that's missing the point of this particular game and would be just as happy casual playing any other MMO.

[droid327]

No it isn't. A valid nerf would have been fixing the Cleric/FvS crit multiplier that was stacking with everything.

That's not the broken part. That requires 6 levels of a class, a Deity choice, and is only valid for one (otherwise useless) weapon type. Its no more broken than KT for longswords and warhammers.

30% attack speed right up front was the broken part, and thats what they fixed - you can still get it, you just have to fully invest in Wolf to get full return, and partial investment gives you partial return. You cant get 100% of wolf benefits with just a splash - just like you dont get 20% attack speed in the first core of Vanguard, you scale up to it.