Hardcore and the Store, Questions and Concerns

[HungarianRhapsody]

Just as a counter to all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth over people boo hooing that a business isn't just devoting man hours to give you requested content, but expect said business to then not actually make any money over the expended man hours, I can say I am more then happy to have the store active on this server.

With that being said, I despise the entire idea of this serve, but because it has prizes I do not want to loose out on, I will be forced to painfully grind on this awful idea. So thank god I can buy store pots to make this terrible grind more bearable of an experience for me.
Just an fyi though, if you prevent overleved characters from entering dungeons just to appease the winey baby types, I won't be participating, and that means I wont be dropping 60 bucks on pots, so that would be the companies monetary loss. Please keep that in mind

If you think it's an awful grind and a bad idea, then why are you supporting it with your wallet?

[LeadHero5]

Might as well have a leaderboard with the highest dollars spent. At the end the top 100 get a cloak with a $ on the back.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Just as a counter to all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth over people boo hooing that a business isn't just devoting man hours to give you requested content, but expect said business to then not actually make any money over the expended man hours, I can say I am more then happy to have the store active on this server.

With that being said, I despise the entire idea of this serve, but because it has prizes I do not want to loose out on, I will be forced to painfully grind on this awful idea. So thank god I can buy store pots to make this terrible grind more bearable of an experience for me.
Just an fyi though, if you prevent overleved characters from entering dungeons just to appease the winey baby types, I won't be participating, and that means I wont be dropping 60 bucks on pots, so that would be the companies monetary loss. Please keep that in mind

Hey man. I am also sympathetic to monetizing the game. It's a business. However people who just buy to skip the experience are the reason this game has so many issues. It's very toxic to the nature of a hardcore experience across the gaming industry. Dark Souls wouldn't be "hardcore" if you could skip to the best weapon in 1 minute. If you want a softcore experience with the cheat codes on that's fine but leave the hardcore server alone please.

[Chai]

For anyone who used to word smith and term lawyer the definition of p2w over the last decade accusing those in the the know of engaging in conspiracy theory, the "if you can't win there's no p2w" argument just took a fatal blow.

Monetizing competitive game play is literally p2w - even by the most strict adherence to the (incorrect) belief that the term definition must equal the sum of all word definitions in the term (which is not how slang works, or regular languages work for that matter).

[Chai]

Just as a counter to all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth over people boo hooing that a business isn't just devoting man hours to give you requested content, but expect said business to then not actually make any money over the expended man hours, I can say I am more then happy to have the store active on this server.

With that being said, I despise the entire idea of this serve, but because it has prizes I do not want to loose out on, I will be forced to painfully grind on this awful idea. So thank god I can buy store pots to make this terrible grind more bearable of an experience for me.
Just an fyi though, if you prevent overleved characters from entering dungeons just to appease the winey baby types, I won't be participating, and that means I wont be dropping 60 bucks on pots, so that would be the companies monetary loss. Please keep that in mind

The issue isnt the company making money, its how they do it. You even say it yourself here. They designed a "terrible grind" (your words) in order to sell you grind mitigation, and you're thanking them for it. While I dont judge people for spending money on a game, I favor the game being the actual product people pay for, rather than the game simply being a platform - the environment the real product is purchased and used in.

[Cernunan]

If you think it's an awful grind and a bad idea, then why are you supporting it with your wallet?

Putting in the game unique rewards is irritating. Having to participate in an unfun grind to acquire said unique rewards is irritating. If I have to participate in this farce of an exercise instead of work on life 18 of my RR on my main to gain a unique reward I want supremely irritates me. I want the stupid unique rewards, that's my personal desire. This ridiculous grind isn't going to be hard or challenging. It's just going to be a monumental boring grind. I plan to spend money to remove some of the boring grind.
If they do anything to prevent me from alleviating my grind of my time and I will pass. They then loose the money I planned to spend. Who do you think they will listen too, people like me or the people demanding the company not make money

[Eelpout]

I will add my voice to those who don't want full store access. I have no delusions that I would make the leader board no matter what I do, but if there is to be competition having that advantage seems a poor decision. I realize that buying tomes wouldn't be terribly effective due to the level restrictions, but so many other things like elemental resists, healing, hirelings, xp that allows you to get to level 20 with much less effort and then going back to favor farm with little to no risk takes a bite out of the spirit of the server.

I know it can be argued that it doesn't effect anybody else and that the person who does this is only hurting their own experience, but I don't agree. The leader board aspect should be enough to persuade SSG to at least greatly limit store access, but overall experience to those on the server should weigh in as well.

Not to mention with the server transfer option it makes it much easier for someone to spend $$ on their character knowing that at the end of the 90 days they can transfer that character to minimize loss. And as others have suggested what happens when Otto's boxes make it back to the store like they have a habit of doing toward the end of the year? Is SSG going to lose an opportunity to sell those or will that be the ONE thing the don't allow on the hardcore server?

I truly liked the idea of the hardcore league experiment, but the store makes me a tad queasy. I think finding other ways to monetize are better. Perhaps some folks would go VIP for 90 days to try it, that equals more money, put in a $15 or specific DDO point option to allow those who aren't VIP to access the server or buy a character slot/slots in order to play on that server.


TL/DR; Find another way to make money off this potentially fun experience other than the DDO Store.

[Cernunan]

The issue isnt the company making money, its how they do it. You even say it yourself here. They designed a "terrible grind" (your words) in order to sell you grind mitigation, and you're thanking them for it. While I dont judge people for spending money on a game, I favor the game being the actual product people pay for, rather than the game simply being a platform - the environment the real product is purchased and used in.

I'm not thanking them. I've let it be known I think this entire experiment is a monumental waste of time, yet they are putting unique rewards in play. This entire exercise irritates me. I'm just letting the company know as much as I despise this, I will participate for the unique rewards, unless they prevent me from reducing my irritation. They can cater to my desire to give them money, or they can pander to those who will keep me from spending money. It's that simple

[HungarianRhapsody]

Putting in the game unique rewards is irritating. Having to participate in an unfun grind to acquire said unique rewards is irritating. If I have to participate in this farce of an exercise instead of work on life 18 of my RR on my main to gain a unique reward I want supremely irritates me. I want the stupid unique rewards, that's my personal desire. This ridiculous grind isn't going to be hard or challenging. It's just going to be a monumental boring grind. I plan to spend money to remove some of the boring grind.
If they do anything to prevent me from alleviating my grind of my time and I will pass. They then loose the money I planned to spend. Who do you think they will listen too, people like me or the people demanding the company not make money

When you do that, you're telling SSG that they should continue to add additional grind to the game because you'll pay them to remove some of the grind that they artificially added (with the explicit purpose of giving you something to pay to avoid).

If they make something that is anti-fun, DON'T reward them for it.

[Cernunan]

When you do that, you're telling SSG that they should continue to add additional grind to the game because you'll pay them to remove some of the grind that they artificially added (with the explicit purpose of giving you something to pay to avoid).

If they make something that is anti-fun, DON'T reward them for it.

Sadly , 13 million xps lives later, we are well past that discussion. They would never have started this hardcore server idea if it wasnt explicitly designed to generate income. That's the entire point of the entire experience

[Kaboom2112]

The store being available makes this whole thing a joke, worthy of only mockery.

[BigErkyKid]

If they really cared to cater to your desire to have a truly competitive experience, they would not have unique rewards.
And thanks for the compliment. I'm happy to finance the health of a game I love, as I have for many years. I really hope they listen to those of us who are happy to support the company, as opposed to those who cry , yet do not.

The argument is moot since this is a VIP only league. Everyone is paying, so there is non of the free riding you seem to imply.

Furthermore, the fact that it is a unique cosmetic does not diminish the competitive aspect in the least. On the contrary, the fact that it is cosmetic ensures that it goes well with the competition for fun design.

Do you watch the Olimpic games and swear at the TV? Darn, why don’t they sell those exact same medals in the gift shop!

I ll take it further: I hope they make unique cosmetics for the top 100, and top 10, and so on. It is a cosmetic, you do t need it, and if you want it, go compete on the Hardcore competitive league.

[BigErkyKid]

Sadly , 13 million xps lives later, we are well past that discussion. They would never have started this hardncore server idea if it wasnt explicitly designed to generate income. That's the entire point of the entire experience

They will be making money by ensuring that we don’t let the vip expire and bringing back to vip people who wouldn’t subscribe otherwise. There is no need to cheapen the experience by adding p2win; at that point it is self defeating, they may as well just sell the cosmetics in the store and call it a day without so much hassle.

[Cernunan]

They will be making money by ensuring that we don’t let the vip expire and bringing back to vip people who wouldn’t subscribe otherwise. There is no need to cheapen the experience by adding p2win; at that point it is self defeating, they may as well just sell the cosmetics in the store and call it a day without so much hassle.

That is far less money. FAR less. Who do you really think they will cater too

[LucidLTS]

It seems like you guys really, really misjudged what the players actually want. People were excited about the idea that there would be a limited-resource server where everyone is on an even playing field. That was the "fun" aspect people were excited about, judging from the many posts and comments. I just don't understand.

^This
I have been seriously considering a month or two of VIP to try a populated server with a level playing field, but it was *only* for the level playing field, the cosmetics and leaderboard have absolutely zero draw for me.

Do you watch the Olimpic games and swear at the TV? Darn, why don’t they sell those exact same medals in the gift shop!

LMAO, I snorted coffee on that one, well done!

[Chai]

I'm not thanking them. I've let it be known I think thismentire experiment is a monumental waste of time, yet they are putting unique rewards in play. This entire exercise irritates me. I'm just letting the company know as much as I despise this, I will participate for the unique rewards, unless they prevent me from reducing my irritation. They can cater to my desire to give them money, or they can pander to those who will keep me from spending money. It's that simple

I will be forced to painfully grind on this awful idea. So thank god I can buy store pots to make this terrible grind more bearable of an experience for me.

Thats pretty much thanking them for designing a "terrible grind" (your words) then allowing you to buy potions to mitigate it.

The game system preserving way of reducing irritation would be not designing the insane grind in the first place. But then theres no incentive to pay to mitigate it.

I'm all for SSG making money. By making the game and the game system better, the more attractive game is played by more people. This experiment is a step in the right direction, if its not just a ploy to make more money on store items by starting a wallet warrior competition.

Sadly , 13 million xps lives later, we are well past that discussion. They would never have started this hardncore server idea if it wasnt explicitly designed to generate income. That's the entire point of the entire experience

They could just sell the cosmetics in the store. No need to couch it in terms of a "competitive server." Doing so initiates the discussion again, heh.

[Chai]

Do you watch the Olimpic games and swear at the TV? Darn, why don’t they sell those exact same medals in the gift shop!

We do live in a world where the winner of a marathon is spotted getting off a bus minutes before crossing the finish line.

[Cernunan]

Thats pretty much thanking them for designing a "terrible grind" (your words) then allowing you to buy potions to mitigate it.

The game system preserving way of reducing irritation would be not designing the insane grind in the first place. But then theres no incentive to pay to mitigate it.

I'm all for SSG making money. By making the game and the game system better, the more attractive game is played by more people. This experiment is a step in the right direction, if its not just a ploy to make more money on store items by starting a wallet warrior competition.



They could just sell the cosmetics in the store. No need to couch it in terms of a "competitive server." Doing so initiates the discussion again, heh.

As I have said, if there were no unique rewards, there would be no discussion. I would just let you all have your measuring stick competition and go about my business.

If they sold the cosmetics in the store I would be just as happy, but, they won't, because this entire experience isn't about competition. It's about generating income. That's why they are keeping the store, that is why there are unique rewards. You all are trying to make this something that it is not.

If this were not about generating income, it would not be happening

[Lynnabel]

As I have said, if there were no unique rewards, there would be no discussion

To be clear, the unique cosmetic rewards are not tied to the leaderboard.

[Captain_Wizbang]

It's about generating income. That's why they are keeping the store, that is why there are unique rewards. You all are trying to make this something that it is not.

If this were not about generating income, it would not be happening

*clapping ensues* It's a business that just happens to sell fun. I have zero issues with that.

However calling it hardcore is an oxymoron when there's store sales, tomes, etc...