Hardcore and the Store, Questions and Concerns

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Hey!

I am wondering if SSG can comment on the following:

1. Will the store be enabled on the Hardcore server?
2. And if so, will the purchase of "progression items" be disabled?

I'm asking this because I strongly feel that the virtues of a Hardcore server stem from the level playing field that players get by all starting (and dying) together in the harbor. I think the following "progression items" detract from the experience:

a. Boxes (xp stones)
b. Xp potions
c. Tomes
d. Gold Rolling (by extension of it containing the above).

I also think a more minor problem would be posed by healing potions, mana potions and wands of teleport. The reason for this is very simple. When you start a new character on a hardcore server you are resource restricted. Healing potions and arrows will cost you all the platinum you pick up. You will not have access to the cure serious potions or wands from the guild vendors. You will not have access to the portable hole.

I feel that allowing people to pay to skip to level 20 (or even speed up that progression) would allow them to gain an advantage that ruins the communities sense of progression. Being the first person into the portable hole will be a big deal---because it allows you access to all the scrolls for wizards etc. MMOs involve a sense of competition and allowing some people to purchase a bjillion lives on the regular servers is fine IMO because its how we monetize the game; however, on a hardcore server I feel that it would be inappropriate.

~

If I left anything else problematic to a sense of "community progression" then let's discuss that.
Cheers and Love
Sam

~

EDIT:
Lamma notes.
Currently the store is planned to be implemented on hardcore as it is on live.

[goldgolem]

The purpose of this is to make whales fight each other using money, so no they wont remove things whales can buy

[cru121]

yes, rich people can buy stuff from the store, that's for sure. let's wait for lamannia, perhaps SSG will surprise us here.

if you want to teleport around, level up a human to level 3 and pick up greater dragonmark.
hardly an accomplishment.

[boredGamer]

The purpose of this is to make whales fight each other using money, so no they wont remove things whales can buy

Just auction off the top 100 slots every quarter - I'm happy for people to support the game.

[SerPounce]

Agreed. If it's VIP only then it doesn't need to be supported by the cash store. But is there some reason they can't just disable the whole store and be done with it? If you want account upgrades (the few that don't come with VIP) you can buy them on a different server. Even some of the "softer" items like storage space and gold seal hires are some degree of advantage.

[Splunge]

I also think a more minor problem would be posed by healing potions, mana potions and wands of teleport. The reason for this is very simple. When you start a new character on a hardcore server you are resource restricted. Healing potions and arrows will cost you all the platinum you pick up. You will not have access to the cure serious potions or wands from the guild vendors. You will not have access to the portable hole

They probably won't, but I'd also love to see them shut down the store on that server. Some of my best memories of DDO involve having limited resources. I started on a new server a couple of years ago with my daughter, and I remember going to the vendor and buying 2 potions of remove curse and a potion of cure disease because that's all I could afford. I also remember breaking all of the boxes on the way up to the tutorial quest just so that I might pick up some cure light wounds pots. And looting a chest was fun! All of the "vendor trash" that people don't even bother looting these days was exciting.

[Paisheng]

1. I agree the ddo store should be shut down for everything but cosmetics on this server.

2. No auctions, especially no shard auction. This helps prevent pay to win. I don't have a problem with regular vendor materials or pots....i'm thinking that even earning enough pp to buy some of these things will be part of the challenge and fun.

3. I'm neutral on hirelings (they already said those will be available) but of course not gold star hirelings.

4. Slay areas should not give xp because what's to stop someone from slaying to 20 and then going back and easily running favor quests for rewards?

5. Will people crash their clients to prevent dying? I would like that you can only do each quest once and if you exit a quest to prevent dying then you can't go back and run that quest.

Overall I am in strong support of the new 90 day hardcore server, but like many want a very "skill" based challenge that has an even playing floor.

[psykopeta]

not sure what's the point of releasing a server only to spend cash and then shut the store, makes no sense

cosmetics? that's the income on a whole server released who-knows-the-reason (other than cash) when u can play permadeath on literally, every other server, after all it's a player devotion to follow the rules

[Cantor]

1. I agree the ddo store should be shut down for everything but cosmetics on this server.

2. No auctions, especially no shard auction. This helps prevent pay to win. I don't have a problem with regular vendor materials or pots....i'm thinking that even earning enough pp to buy some of these things will be part of the challenge and fun.

3. I'm neutral on hirelings (they already said those will be available) but of course not gold star hirelings.

4. Slay areas should not give xp because what's to stop someone from slaying to 20 and then going back and easily running favor quests for rewards?

5. Will people crash their clients to prevent dying? I would like that you can only do each quest once and if you exit a quest to prevent dying then you can't go back and run that quest.

Overall I am in strong support of the new 90 day hardcore server, but like many want a very "skill" based challenge that has an even playing floor.

1 agree.
2 why no AH, sure no shard.
3 NO hires.
4 yeh, if it's E/R only then no wilderness or scale them up.
5 seems that doesn't matter, you die on a DC too bad.
Each quest once, is too much luck based. Oh, didn't get that key item? too bad, that guy did he just has a huge advantage. not skill based, luck based.

[droid327]

I dont think its P2W if people are playing the plat AH, or buying Hirelings, etc. Everyone starts with 0 plat and earns whatever they spend, that's just part of the grind. Its only RWM transactions that make it unfair.

I dont think the goal of the server is to get people to join and then spend money to compete. I think the goal is to drive people to buy VIP for 3 months so they can play on it. And I think having a no-P2W setup is more conducive to that - no one's going to want to sub up for 3 months if they feel they have to spend hundreds more to actually compete.

I think the bigger question is account-level unlocks - if you paid for Inqui and can run them from L1 on first life, you're at a huge advantage over someone that can only get it after they run Sharn Saga on Elite to unlock it. Is the new server going to respect account-level purchases, "one per server/char" bonuses from expansions, etc.?

[SirValentine]

There's more things one could question besides the store, that would "un-level" the playing field. Specifically, paid per-character perks like tomes & items.

For example, every new character I currently make comes with several skill tome of my choices, Tomes of (regular & Epic) Learning, and assorted permanent hirelings. And things like XP potions. And the skill-boosting cosmetic hat. I hear some people also get Racial AP and Universal AP tomes. Or even the Founder's Helm!

But we don't know their intent yet. If raising revenue is a major goal, then of course all those paid things and store things will be there!

[Sam-u-r-eye]

But we don't know their intent yet. If raising revenue is a major goal, then of course all those paid things and store things will be there!

I totally agree. I'm sympathetic to them needing to monetize the game; however, hopefully there's enough money in this without the store. Maybe people return to the game for it. Maybe they catch some more VIPs than they would otherwise.

Personally, I will not be playing it if people can gold roll to 20. It would just feel awful community-wise.

[HungarianRhapsody]

1 agree.
2 why no AH, sure no shard.
3 NO hires.
4 yeh, if it's E/R only then no wilderness or scale them up.
5 seems that doesn't matter, you die on a DC too bad.
Each quest once, is too much luck based. Oh, didn't get that key item? too bad, that guy did he just has a huge advantage. not skill based, luck based.

Jerry already said there will be hirelings.

[Captain_Wizbang]

They probably won't, but I'd also love to see them shut down the store on that server. .

So... the question needs to be asked;

How much are the Death By-Pass Tokens going to cost?

[Memnir]

I say add more stuff to the Store, for that server only. Like account-based Airships, permanent-duration XP potions, and literal Heal Bots. And charge 5% less for everything.
Mark a lot of things down by a little bit, and you are sure to make more money by selling a greater than average number of items. And the more stuff you have to sell, the greater odds are something will appeal to somebody enough to buy it. This is going to be a captive market - milk it for all you can for the 90 days.

I have admitted to having zero interest in this PermaChestThump server... but if it was made to be ultra-chaotic, it would be worth popping in just to see Gen Chat.


edit:
About halfway through the server's lifespan, put the low-to-mid tier earnable cosmetics in the Store, too! At stupid high prices! That's enough time for most people who can't to realize they won't be getting them on their own, but are now invested enough to buy em outright. Brilliant and profitable!

edit x2:
This post contains 20% fruit juice and other natural flavors, as well as 63% sarcasm.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I have admitted to having zero interest in this PermaChestThump server... but if it was made to be ultra-chaotic, it would be worth popping in just to see Gen Chat.

The social lolz of this server are definitely my favorite part of it. I actually dislike the "hardcore" part, but having the game be meaningfully difficult in a way that builds the community is something I'm excited about. Value is proportional to scarcity, so when you start a server with nothing, then everything you do feels more meaningful. The WOW classic servers always captured this.

[SerPounce]

But we don't know their intent yet. If raising revenue is a major goal, then of course all those paid things and store things will be there!

If the goal is to make money by maximizing microtransactions then why limit it to VIPs? You'd have more people buying stuff if you let the premium people join. The VIP limitation only makes sense if microtransactions aren't available.

[Airmaiden]

Here is the way to Win at Hardcore server:

1. Make New Toon
2. Buy tomes (stats and Skills)
3. Buy XP pots, SP pots, Healing Pots from Store
4. Gold Roll to 20, then bring 20th level hires into every quest from 1-20 and ZERG to top of leader board!
5. Brag to all your friends and wait for them to all "Pat you on your back" and say "you are sooooo Awesome"......cause that is what this server is all about right!

Thanks for wasting your time reading this post!

[archest]

Hardcore, should be named Cashcore if its designed around the whales.

To me hard core would be more the restrictive of cash play to progress.
its supposed to be harder not so easy its a waste of your life why play at all if your only looking for a cheat to progress.

cash play is cheating . its gives an advantage over other players.

that's not hard core gaming .

don't think I have ever heard of a DM taking payoffs to add extra's to one player in a table top.
he wouldn't have much of a membership in his group if he did and was caught.

Hard core is playing progressively through the game without shortcuts.

IMO

Understanding of coarse, the game involves the store to make income to pay the programmers to make more of the game to make more income to pay the programmers to make more of the game to make income to pay.........................................

[HungarianRhapsody]

If the goal is to make money by maximizing microtransactions then why limit it to VIPs? You'd have more people buying stuff if you let the premium people join. The VIP limitation only makes sense if microtransactions aren't available.

Or as a way to get people who already have all the packs to add VIP on top of that for at least a few months. It’s a perfect way to boost your subscription numbers temporarily. Very little upfront cost or effort for SSG compared to new expansions.