Hardcore and the Store, Questions and Concerns

[SerPounce]

For anyone who used to word smith and term lawyer the definition of p2w over the last decade accusing those in the the know of engaging in conspiracy theory, the "if you can't win there's no p2w" argument just took a fatal blow.

No, the facts changed so the analysis changed. This leaderboard is P2W. The game otherwise is not.

[slarden]

For anyone who used to word smith and term lawyer the definition of p2w over the last decade accusing those in the the know of engaging in conspiracy theory, the "if you can't win there's no p2w" argument just took a fatal blow.

Monetizing competitive game play is literally p2w - even by the most strict adherence to the (incorrect) belief that the term definition must equal the sum of all word definitions in the term (which is not how slang works, or regular languages work for that matter).

What do you win? Also what is in the store that will make a significant impact on players avoiding death?

[SerPounce]

What do you win? Also what is in the store that will make a significant impact on players avoiding death?

On the first part you win a spot on the leaderboard. Whether that has value to you is subjective, but people value "winning" in all kinds of situations where there isn't an economically valuable prize.

On the second part there are both items that directly make you harder to kill (Con tomes, healing items), and boosts that make it statistically less likely. With all the xp boosts you can either play on a lower difficulty or play on the same difficulty fewer times compared to someone without the boosts both of which make it less likely that you'll make a mistake and die.

Whether it's "significant" enough to make it "pay to win" is subjective, but personally I'd say it's significant for RXP but not for favor.

It is a judgment call though. In many sports you can gain some advantage by buying nicer equipment, but I wouldn't consider them pay to win. My other hobby is triathlons where you can spend money that the biggest DDO whales would balk at to gain a few seconds yet I don't think of it as "pay to win." Though I can't say buying a fancier bike hasn't crossed my mind after getting 4th last weekend and missing out on that valueless, but highly coveted (by me), place medal!

[Hoverworth]

First of all i do not think Hardcore League it is for me
to me it seems like the only good thing there is testing out new builds for new characters after that it seems like a waste of my time

Hard core League
if there was a vendor and (DDO store with 3 Re-spawn tokens fixed per character) and 3 Fixed at character start
and a vendor option (after Level 10) with a total of 6 per Tr i might consider hardcore

Cause of Reaper Dungeons death is so easy and Especially Lag Deaths.


2nd The total Time of the League should extend trough all Tr's not just 90 days were player could get a title and bonus gear to include cosmetics for Level's 20 & 30 with a choice of gear appropriate for the main class once the Reincarnations is done

3rd Death's between 1-10 is hard core but replaying Levels 1-10 is a waste of time and super boring you would need a lot more content to keep it interesting maybe 3-7x more content per Level or add (re-spawn tokens)

4rth The Leader Board's should be Updated Monthly not just once.
Should include guild, character + past life's, Guild Level Re-spawn Token amount used (should lower his standings but be shown along with regular deaths were he got raised by a cleric or other)

5th Raise dead spells
Should be able to be used if character took no more then -1000 negative Hit point damage
Which opens up Gear similar to the pet gear that we have now with +400-+1000 to negative hit point range would be level dependant so u can raise the people
for reapers higher reapers will hit for over 1-5k damage so death is still option

And a Board for Highest Level achieved before Permanent Death counting all Reincarnations 1 point per 1 past life

There should be a 90 Day Leader board too that gets Refreshed
and A life time achievement board favor wilderness explorers and so on

you Probably could include that into a all in one leader board

Death would be permanent eventually but not instant and final after a few Levels.

[Fenrisulven7]

"It's about generating income. That's why they are keeping the store, that is why there are unique rewards."

If that's all it's about then why have vendors? I would love a server with no AH, no shard exchange, no potion vendors, no item vendors, no favor rewards.

You pull a wand of CLW with x14 charges and you tuck that baby away for a rainy day.

They could still keep the DDO store if they have to, I would prefer not, but I understand it would be silly for them to create a new server that didn't generate $$ for them

[Fenrisulven7]

...uhm...actually, wouldn't it generate more DDO sales if you couldn't buy stuff from vendors?

Just sayin.

[Cantor]

First of all i do not think Hardcore League it is for me
to me it seems like the only good thing there is testing out new builds for new characters after that it seems like a waste of my time

Hard core League
if there was a vendor and (DDO store with 3 Re-spawn tokens fixed per character) and 3 Fixed at character start
and a vendor option (after Level 10) with a total of 6 per Tr i might consider hardcore

Cause of Reaper Dungeons death is so easy and Especially Lag Deaths.


2nd The total Time of the League should extend trough all Tr's not just 90 days were player could get a title and bonus gear to include cosmetics for Level's 20 & 30 with a choice of gear appropriate for the main class once the Reincarnations is done

3rd Death's between 1-10 is hard core but replaying Levels 1-10 is a waste of time and super boring you would need a lot more content to keep it interesting maybe 3-7x more content per Level or add (re-spawn tokens)

4rth The Leader Board's should be Updated Monthly not just once.
Should include guild, character + past life's, Guild Level Re-spawn Token amount used (should lower his standings but be shown along with regular deaths were he got raised by a cleric or other)

5th Raise dead spells
Should be able to be used if character took no more then -1000 negative Hit point damage
Which opens up Gear similar to the pet gear that we have now with +400-+1000 to negative hit point range would be level dependant so u can raise the people
for reapers higher reapers will hit for over 1-5k damage so death is still option

And a Board for Highest Level achieved before Permanent Death counting all Reincarnations 1 point per 1 past life

There should be a 90 Day Leader board too that gets Refreshed
and A life time achievement board favor wilderness explorers and so on

you Probably could include that into a all in one leader board

Death would be permanent eventually but not instant and final after a few Levels.

Way too complicated. Just go old school pnp rules: base con is reduced by 1 every time you get raised.

[Jaxtan]

Why would a character on a so called "hardcore" server need anything from the DDO store? I completely get the excitement of a server where you only get what you kill, gather or physically trade with other characters. Any out of game mechanics completely destroys the idea it is "hardcore". "Naked and Afraid" isn't "Naked and Afraid and whatever Amazon can Deliver".

[Chai]

No, the facts changed so the analysis changed. This leaderboard is P2W. The game otherwise is not.

The game has been p2w for quite some time. The fact that they now inserted an objective win condition, where before the win condition was subjectively set by each individual player, is mere semantics.

What do you win? Also what is in the store that will make a significant impact on players avoiding death?

Lawyering that a term definition can only equal the sum of all definitions of each word in the term is not how slang or the English language has ever worked.

Example: I took the highway into the big apple.
By the absurd logic that you cant win, therefore you cant pay to win...
-There is no high way unless theres also a low way.
-Where? The big apple, thats not a place, maybe youre referring to New York...
-But its not new so thats wrong,
-And its not York either, which is in the UK.
-Cant even call that the United Kingdom when its hardly United, nor is it a Kingdom
-You cant possibly have "took" the high way because its still there....

Obi-Wan: "Its over Anakin, I have purchased The High Ground DLC."
Anakin: "You underestimate my power!"
Obi-Wan: "I also purchased a light saber of sharpness from the cash shop, dont try it!"
Anakin: /jumps

[Careall]

One of the most convincing factors that the HC will be pay to win (PTW) and some folks might just Gold Roll their way to 20 is the fact that after the 90 days, you can freely transfer the character to another server.
Without the transfer, there might be some infinitesimally small chance even a L20 PTW toon could die - say for example with lag death.
However, there is literally no risk at all to someone willing to shell out that kind of money to win on the HC since all the real-world money spent on the toon is transferable. Even anything stuck in a shared bank can be transferred using a last-day mule toon.

Still. Since I don't care much about the leader boards and just want to experience the HC playstyle, I'll see you there.

[LittleLexi]

They should just disable all the store items that would give an unfair advantage, and instead -- associate a cost with character transfers from the "Hardcore" server to the others and make money off it that way; through the people who can't let go :P