Hardcore and the Store, Questions and Concerns

[SirValentine]

If the goal is to make money by maximizing microtransactions then why limit it to VIPs?

The goal might be to make money via micro-transactions and more VIP subscriptions, not just micro-transactions.

[scipiojedi]

How will this server be delineated from the other servers? I assume it will be a special client like Lamannia since you wouldn't want brand new players logging in and finding out that when they die they have to transfer...

[Sam-u-r-eye]

How will this server be delineated from the other servers? I assume it will be a special client like Lamannia since you wouldn't want brand new players logging in and finding out that when they die they have to transfer...

It seems it will be on Lamma.

[erethizon]

I'm torn on this. On the one hand I like the idea of no store items as it does create a very balanced server where people can compete equally. On the other hand, the rules of the hardcore server will cause people to buy more things than ever and so it's a great revenue stream for DDO. I don't want them to pass up all that income just so everyone can compete equally. Let the whales battle it out like in every free to play game I've ever played. For everyone else the hardcore server is about the challenge and satisfaction of a job well done, not seeing your name posted on the leaderboard.

[slarden]

Personally the ranking aspect of the event doesn't appeal to me because it takes all of about 30 second to think of ways to game the system with or without store items.

I am liking the cosmetics that can be unlocked which is more appealing than the leader board to me. I would like to see permanent different color reaper wings unlocked at 75 pts (black, rainbow, etc.)n during the 90 days.

For an individual achievement ranking system anything that isn't 100% solo doesn't mean anything to me as you didn't earn it individually.

More important than even store items is implementing the old epic mechanic on all quests. In other words quests can only be run once per day.

[erethizon]

1. I agree the ddo store should be shut down for everything but cosmetics on this server.

2. No auctions, especially no shard auction. This helps prevent pay to win. I don't have a problem with regular vendor materials or pots....i'm thinking that even earning enough pp to buy some of these things will be part of the challenge and fun.

3. I'm neutral on hirelings (they already said those will be available) but of course not gold star hirelings.

4. Slay areas should not give xp because what's to stop someone from slaying to 20 and then going back and easily running favor quests for rewards?

5. Will people crash their clients to prevent dying? I would like that you can only do each quest once and if you exit a quest to prevent dying then you can't go back and run that quest.

Overall I am in strong support of the new 90 day hardcore server, but like many want a very "skill" based challenge that has an even playing floor.

Slayer areas have a limited amount of experience. I don't think it is possible to slay your way to 20 (unless you mean by getting rares over and over again at a 67% penalty). If you want easy questing to get to 20 you are better off running quests on normal.

The real milestone that will separate the great players from everyone else is the reaper experience board. The people that get the most reaper experience are the people that played near the level of the quest (since you get a big penalty for being over level) and played on the highest level of reaper difficulty that they could. Getting 5000 favor won't be too hard as you can first level on normal or hard and then do everything on elite once you are level 30.

[AbyssalMage]

Hey!

I am wondering if SSG can comment on the following:

1. Will the store be enabled on the Hardcore server?
2. And if so, will the purchase of "progression items" be disabled?

I've been wondering what the communities concern has been with the store so I guess this post and some of the responses have given me an insight as to what you are thinking.

I'm asking this because I strongly feel that the virtues of a Hardcore server stem from the level playing field that players get by all starting (and dying) together in the harbor. I think the following "progression items" detract from the experience:

a. Boxes (xp stones)
b. Xp potions
c. Tomes
d. Gold Rolling (by extension of it containing the above).

Of the things you listed, only the Boxes create a problem without further information on rewards from the developers. If they do a hard reset after 90 days you have a bunch of VIP's who further supported the game and everyone had fun. Now if they reward "First to {x}" style of rewards then I agree that not making said purchases places you at a severe disadvantage and ruin a lot of goodwill with the community. But if you want to purchase a +8 Supreme Tome on your permadeath character...go for it. I will reserve my final answer though once "rewards" or "Goals" have been publicly stated.

I also think a more minor problem would be posed by healing potions, mana potions and wands of teleport. The reason for this is very simple. When you start a new character on a hardcore server you are resource restricted. Healing potions and arrows will cost you all the platinum you pick up. You will not have access to the cure serious potions or wands from the guild vendors. You will not have access to the portable hole.

Honestly all of those things are quickly overcome. Within a day, two days max. Platinum will again be premium which will probably be a shock to players who have been playing for awhile. But overall, things will level out after about two weeks for the majority of the community.

I feel that allowing people to pay to skip to level 20 (or even speed up that progression) would allow them to gain an advantage that ruins the communities sense of progression. Being the first person into the portable hole will be a big deal---because it allows you access to all the scrolls for wizards etc. MMOs involve a sense of competition and allowing some people to purchase a bjillion lives on the regular servers is fine IMO because its how we monetize the game; however, on a hardcore server I feel that it would be inappropriate.

It isn't a "progression" server. It is a "Die Once Server." So unless they tie rewards to "First to 20," or some other stupidity, I'm not following your concern. But I'll be the first to "grab" a pitchfork with you if they do add a "First to {x}" mechanic! I'll gladly march side-by-side.

If I left anything else problematic to a sense of "community progression" then let's discuss that.
Cheers and Love
Sam

It isn't a "progression" so I will leave it at that.

[Chai]

Been waiting for this thread, but didn't want to start it (too predictable)

If they do allow the entire store, we will also eagerly await the threads where people are crazy mad they just purchased tomes and ingested XP potions, walked into a quest and the lag monster killed their character.

Or even more hilarious, the character they left at the beginning of the quest to protect it from death - the character they are trying to get onto the leader board, dies somehow after all that *cough* investment. *cough*

[AbyssalMage]

If the goal is to make money by maximizing microtransactions then why limit it to VIPs? You'd have more people buying stuff if you let the premium people join. The VIP limitation only makes sense if microtransactions aren't available.

To get people like me who have voted with our wallet to re-sub. Honestly if they don't flub this up I am seriously thinking about dropping $30 for a 3 month subscription. I've literally waited 9 years for DDO to do this. 9 freaking years!

I'm going to keep stating this, "Don't flub this up SSG!"

[AbyssalMage]

Been waiting for this thread, but didn't want to start it (too predictable)

If they do allow the entire store, we will also eagerly await the threads where people are crazy mad they just purchased tomes and ingested XP potions, walked into a quest and the lag monster killed their character.

It is predictable but yes, I too will relish these threads. I can see someone dropping $100+ US on Tomes and XP Bonus to die in that stupid Acid Trap in WW (the bane of 1st life no-evasion toons). Or Necro II "extinguish the torches" (forgot the name ATM). Or the flame jets in Purge the Heretics. Oh, I so forgot the Flame Jets in Shan-to-Kor (actually i will be avoiding this one ).

OMG, the forums are going to be interesting (or at least we can hope lol).

Or even more hilarious, the character they left at the beginning of the quest to protect it from death - the character they are trying to get onto the leader board, dies somehow after all that *cough* investment. *cough*

I laugh but I have experienced this in another game (my only investment was thankfully time). But yeah, all these years later, it is funny.

[Saekee]

I dont want it to be easily ruled by inhumans who play this game 30 hours/week

Should be an intriguing challenge for an occasional dip, I like this stuff—see Mikkado’s original challenges here, my nude heroic run or my ROGUE thread. Makes the game fun.

I am not ViP so looks like I am out although maybe I can skimp some free trial...

[Sam-u-r-eye]

It isn't a "progression" so I will leave it at that.

If you want to continue that's fine. I agree that it's not a progression server, but all RPGs are inherently about progression. Fun is tied to the idea of progression. The idea of "Hardcore" is built on making progression harder and more meaningful. If you do things that work directly against making progression more meaningful---then you're working against the motive of making it a hardcore server.

[Kaboom2112]

I dont want it to be easily ruled by inhumans who play this game 30 hours/week

It will be, that's reality.

[LittleLexi]

If it were up to me -- Otto's boxes, Exp pots, Daily Dice, Guild buffs, Hirelings and Dual-boxing would be disabled on such a server. But it's not, and I seriously doubt the devs will discourage people from wanting to spend money -- even if it will invalidate the entire concept of what hardcore is supposed to be.

They have frequently chosen the path of trying to milk as much cash as possible, over doing what is right, or fun, or just plain nice for the players; thereby missing the potential long term gains from a happy and loyal player base, as well as failing to attract new ones. I don't think that will change now.

It is bemusing that they're for splitting up an already fractured population. How about some real concrete effort into marketing the game more, or perhaps making changes that encourage for more group play/LFM's?

Disappointing(though not surprising) that F2P/Premium players are given the shaft once again. They make up a significant portion of the community and contribute in many ways, including monetarily in the case of Premiums, yet they're an afterthought at best.

Frustrating that innovations are usually half-baked. Like, getting your name on a plaque? How hard would it be to get the top 3 players in a category to pose, flesh->stone them, convert the stone to marble, up-size it and then place the sculptures in the Hall of Heroes, so that the ones in there are actually relevant? Wouldn't that be a cool touch?

DDO is still a great game with lots of potential, even after all these years. Sometimes though, the decisions made by those in charge don't exactly fill you with much confidence...

Going back to the hardcore server...The most reasonable compromise I can think of that will still allow for spending, while not diminishing the hardcore aspect, is to make it so that you can't do quests over level. That way if someone wants to Otto's box their way to cap, for example, they wouldn't be able to just go on a favor clean up spree -- seeing as favor is supposed to be one of the measures of success.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I'm on Llama now. All store things that we can buy in live today are available in the Hardcore store.

Also, all expansion pack goodies that you have on your account are available on the Hardcore server.

Looks like I'll just run a character up to 100 favor for the DDO points and then ignore the Hardcore server entirely because I don't want to encourage this kind of thing.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I'm on Llama now. All store things that we can buy in live today are available in the Hardcore store.

Also, all expansion pack goodies that you have on your account are available on the Hardcore server.

Looks like I'll just run a character up to 100 favor for the DDO points and then ignore the Hardcore server entirely because I don't want to encourage this kind of thing.

+1

The store will have to be restricted for me to play this. Feels bad man.

[TedSandyman]

I really don't care if SSG allows pay-to-play on the permadeath server.

It would almost definitely be a big money maker and I am absolutely, 100% ALL for SSG making as much money as they can off of those who can and will pay for it. And if you are a fan of this game, you should be too. More money for them means a better game for all and more longevity.

I may possibly renew my VIP and play anyway even though I know the big winners are almost assuredly the ones who spent the most. (I can also use that as an excuse for why I didn't win.) Lots of players wont pay any and some will pay a little. Either way, it is still far more balanced than the state of most of the servers are at this point.

Many, if not most (I AM NOT SAYING ALL), of the players on the standard servers with full triple completionist, full racial completionist, full iconic completionist got that way by paying for high level XP pots.

I don't mind. As a matter of fact, thank you for investing in the game. But I'm not going to do it.

Sure, it would be more fun to me and, it sounds like to many, if there were no store and the everyone was on equal footing. But the truth is you WILL benefit from the store being open for business even though you might not like it. It will make more profit for SSG and that will help in other ways (more money for developers, more money to pay current developers so they don't leave, more money for more servers, etc...)

I honestly think this is too good of a money making opportunity for them to turn it down.

And if you drop $100 on the server and die, well, you knew the risks, lag and all. Quit whining, drop another $100 and get back to playing.

[BigErkyKid]

+1

The store will have to be restricted for me to play this. Feels bad man.

I am waiting to see the mental gymnastics involved in justifying a restriction on the store goodies for the hardcore servers, and not for the live servers.

I have one, but it isn't pretty: there are no real achievements left in the live servers, so the fact that you can p2win / p2skip / p4convenience is, to a certain extent, irrelevant.

I have to say, I LOVE the idea of an achievements server. In fact, I wish there were only achievement servers for DDO. The amount of discipline it would bring to design decisions would be very welcome.

Look at the debates we are having over what is more powerful, what would be p2win, what are good and bad quests, and so on. All of these started to matter to player when there were real achievements to be accomplished.

In an achievements based game, this lack of balance would have no place. In a grind game, play as you please (although we see players tend to go meta), skip as you please, lack of balance everywhere because.... WHO THE HECK CARES.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I really don't care if SSG allows pay-to-play on the permadeath server.

It would almost definitely be a big money maker and I am absolutely, 100% ALL for SSG making as much money as they can off of those who can and will pay for it. And if you are a fan of this game, you should be too. More money for them means a better game for all and more longevity.

I may possibly renew my VIP and play anyway even though I know the big winners are almost assuredly the ones who spent the most. (I can also use that as an excuse for why I didn't win.) Lots of players wont pay any and some will pay a little. Either way, it is still far more balanced than the state of most of the servers are at this point.

Many, if not most (I AM NOT SAYING ALL), of the players on the standard servers with full triple completionist, full racial completionist, full iconic completionist got that way by paying for high level XP pots.

I don't mind. As a matter of fact, thank you for investing in the game. But I'm not going to do it.

Sure, it would be more fun to me and, it sounds like to many, if there were no store and the everyone was on equal footing. But the truth is you WILL benefit from the store being open for business even though you might not like it. It will make more profit for SSG and that will help in other ways (more money for developers, more money to pay current developers so they don't leave, more money for more servers, etc...)

I honestly think this is too good of a money making opportunity for them to turn it down.

And if you drop $100 on the server and die, well, you knew the risks, lag and all. Quit whining, drop another $100 and get back to playing.

Great point. I guess I would quibble that F2P games depend on smaller fish to serve as community content for bigger fish. I don't think hardcore will have a healthy enough community if people feel that the game is too unfair. We all want the house to win, but the game of cards needs to be fun enough for people to buy in.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I am waiting to see the mental gymnastics involved in justifying a restriction on the store goodies for the hardcore servers, and not for the live servers.

I have one, but it isn't pretty: there are no real achievements left in the live servers, so the fact that you can p2win / p2skip / p4convenience is, to a certain extent, irrelevant.

I have to say, I LOVE the idea of an achievements server. In fact, I wish there were only achievement servers for DDO. The amount of discipline it would bring to design decisions would be very welcome.

Look at the debates we are having over what is more powerful, what would be p2win, what are good and bad quests, and so on. All of these started to matter to player when there were real achievements to be accomplished.

In an achievements based game, this lack of balance would have no place. In a grind game, play as you please (although we see players tend to go meta), skip as you please, lack of balance everywhere because.... WHO THE HECK CARES.

Man I totally agree.