Reaper at level +2. How do you expect to play that?

[mikarddo]

Currently my buddy and I are running racials by doing reaper at level - as I figure many are.

We almost never hold levels even doing some quests under level.
We often do all of GH except Tor at 13, barely make 18 before doing High Roads and are still 18 in Storm Horns, maybe 19 in WGU.
We finish both ES sagas to reach 20.

With the proposed changes we will get slightly less regular xp on reaper, slightly less xp in the few nerfed quests and somewhat less xp if we still do REHN om a select handful of quests. We will get slightly more xp from the buffer quests if we run those. Overall we will need to run more quests to level than before.

Now, the option to run quests at level +2 looks interesting. This probably means dropping the ES sagas only doing the individual quests if they are worthwhile instead running more lower level quests to get 2 levels ahead (or 3 levels, clarifications pending).

I wonder through if there are enough worthwhile lower quests to make this work well. Sure, with a 50% pot it will be great but without pots I think it might simply result in running slower low level quests for less xp/min as well as less rxp rather than the level 17-19 quests. It is worth noting that on the list of buffed quests only the Riddle, High Roads and Storm Horns are on our current play list and those dont jive with running over level.

I am curious what others think wrt. this. Do you expect to take advantage of being able to run reaper over level?

[lyrecono]

Slayerzone? 3bc has decent exp with a slayer and exp pot, acces from lv 3

To fill in exp at low level

[LightBear]

I think that being able to run quest at two levels higher over base and still get full rxp will be a good thing.

I also expect to see more seeker/rare/slayer LFMs up for wilderness zones, especially Orchard, Vale and Wheloon.

And it looks like you're skipping Reaver's Reach, big chunk of xp is awaiting you there.

[mikarddo]

I think that being able to run quest at two levels higher over base and still get full rxp will be a good thing.

I also expect to see more seeker/rare/slayer LFMs up for wilderness zones, especially Orchard, Vale and Wheloon.

And it looks like you're skipping Reaver's Reach, big chunk of xp is awaiting you there.

As slayers do not give rxp I am doubtful those will become popular. RR is definitely an option if one drops ES sagas but being level 17 those are not really a means to run over level more the final quests to hit 20.

[Carpone]

I'm wrapping up racial at-level reaper lives in the next two weeks. You can look at my quest list is here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...l-Reaper-Lives. I think your issue may be more about not holding levels when quests are plentiful. Also consider additional/different sagas to prep and take at level 18: RL, GH, Sharn and Cogs. ETA: I use 20% XP pots + VIP.

When I do iconic lives just to get the past lives, I do elite streak reapers because I'm more interested in getting to 30 than maximizing RXP on a [often] suboptimal build. I have zero issue getting to 20. When I TR, I only level to 14 (holding 15) and do the typical level 12 quests like Wiz King, Relic, Invaders, Eyes of Stone chain to double cap. I stay double capped until I take 20.

[mikarddo]

I'm wrapping up racial at-level reaper lives in the next two weeks. You can look at my quest list is here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...l-Reaper-Lives. I think your issue may be more about not holding levels when quests are plentiful. Also consider additional/different sagas to prep and take at level 18: RL, GH, Sharn and Cogs. ETA: I use 20% XP pots + VIP.

When I do iconic lives just to get the past lives, I do elite streak reapers because I'm more interested in getting to 30 than maximizing RXP on a [often] suboptimal build. I have zero issue getting to 20. When I TR, I only level to 14 (holding 15) and do the typical level 12 quests like Wiz King, Relic, Invaders, Eyes of Stone chain to double cap. I stay double capped until I take 20.

Thanks for the link. However, holding levels and not using Saga xp right away is the exact opposite of what will likely be optimal if we can run level+2 for full xp and rxp.

[LightBear]

As slayers do not give rxp I am doubtful those will become popular. RR is definitely an option if one drops ES sagas but being level 17 those are not really a means to run over level more the final quests to hit 20.

I read your main concern as "As I'm struggling from level 18 and above how do I reach 20 now that some of the quests that I regularly run get less xp?" and "While doing quests at level and not banking xp?" and "Hitting 20 is enough to get a racial past life".

If that is your main concern then... you are right... there is a dip in xp you can get from quest while at level at the last few heroic levels.
(I think we'll get a handful of level 17 quests soon.)
If you are willing to take advantage of being able to get full rxp while being 2 levels above base, then doing those in Vale while being level 18 might be an option, it doesn't give saga tho.

The explorers suggestion was just there for filling the last bit of xp needed to reach 20.

Edit:
I would make other suggestions if you wanted to reach 30 quickly.

[mikarddo]

I read your main concern as "As I'm struggling from level 18 and above how do I reach 20 now that some of the quests that I regularly run get less xp?" and "While doing quests at level and not banking xp?" and "Hitting 20 is enough to get a racial past life".

If that is your main concern then... you are right... there is a dip in xp you can get from quest while at level at the last few heroic levels.
(I think we'll get a handful of level 17 quests soon.)
If you are willing to take advantage of being able to get full rxp while being 2 levels above base, then doing those in Vale while being level 18 might be an option, it doesn't give saga tho.

The explorers suggestion was just there for filling the last bit of xp needed to reach 20.

Edit:
I would make other suggestions if you wanted to reach 30 quickly.

Looks like I wasnt been clear then. I can get to 20 easily. Currently I do so without holding levels because that seems faster. I can see the lure to run over level +2 or +3 after these changes but I not so sure its possibly to find enough god xp lower level quests to make this efficient unless one is using good pots.

[Tilomere]

If one runs out of xp due to not owning enough content, one can always run ES challenges at CR24+ for the CR24 named item drops and materials to craft more, then feed it all to your SW.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Level +3 even, because Bravery Bonus isn't going to be relevant anymore.

(And level +??? In Epics)

[Silverleafeon]

Level +3 even, because Bravery Bonus isn't going to be relevant anymore.

Yes +1
Bravery is a standard bonus for running elite first time (split with hard or applied to reaper) for normal xp, it has nothing to do with rxp and it has nothing to do with what level your toon is. So way over level with a new iconic works fine.

(And level +??? In Epics)

+1
Yes, I will test that if the Test server ever opens up again.

Imagine if we can run any epic dungeon on reaper with any level toon, what that would do for grouping?



Also, not sure what would happen if you entered a high level heroic dungeon with an epic toon having the intention of gaining rxp.


Definitely could see myself having a toon at level 16 farming out base level 13 quest then jumping into a group with a level 19 leader in the vale for rxp.

[Silverleafeon]

Ignore anything above that I typed if it contradicts with this:

Greetings! Thanks for the feedback. Some notes:

~ It is not our intention to reduce the rate at which characters gain Reaper XP. We intend to boost Reaper XP to make up for the loss of the Reaper XP gained from the old Bravery Streak bonus. We are looking at the best way to do that.

~ We have looked at the feedback on optional objectives and how they affect the Epic reincarnation process. On live Epic reincarnation doesn't clear out quest flags so players don't have to re-flag for quests. There is no reason that we need to retain quest flagging for optional objectives, however. With the XP changes we will also reset optional objective flags (and only those flags) when you do an Epic reincarnation. This will give characters a fresh set of optional objectives for each Epic life while keeping their flagging for quests intact.

~ We do not intend players to get full Bravery Bonus if they are over level. Like on live, if the player is more than 2 levels above the base CR of the quest they will get less Bravery Bonus and their Dungeons Completed count will not be incremented. The reduction - 25% on Hard and 50% on Elite/Reaper - will be the same as on live.

~ There seems to be some confusion on Reaper XP over level penalties. The XP penalty for characters being over level will match the way it works on Elite. This helps things stay consistent. Characters who are too high level are still prevented from entering quests on Reaper difficulty. In the Epic levels this will work as it does on live; players are prevented from entering a Reaper dungeon if they are more than 6 levels above the base CR of the dungeons. In the heroic levels we have reduced this range to 4 levels.

Example:

You are running a level 10 dungeon on Reaper. The modified challenge rating is 12 - since Reaper uses the CR for Elite. If your character is level 13 or lower there is no penalty. Level 14 would give a reduction of -10% of base XP. Level 15 would give a reduction of -25% of base XP. Level 16 would give a reduction of -50% of base XP. Level 17 would give a reduction of -75% of base XP. Level 18 would give a reduction of -99% of base XP. Higher levels would reduce the XP to zero.

As an aside, I apologize for the delay in response. Any plans for changes that involve tech require some research before we can comment on a definitive plan.

Sev~

PS: While I would love nothing better than to burn the XP system to the ground and re-implement an easier to understand system - maybe with, I don't know, one way to reward first time play and one system to penalize playing over level, we are trying to maintain parity so players don't feel we are trying to take away their XP.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Ignore anything above that I typed if it contradicts with this:

Honestly, I'm more likely to accept what you say you've seen on Llama over what Severlin says he's trying to make happen in Llama.

"This is what it will do" claim from a dev is great.
"This is what it's actually doing" from someone who checked it is even better.

I still don't 100% understand what Sev said in that post.

~ We do not intend players to get full Bravery Bonus if they are over level. Like on live, if the player is more than 2 levels above the base CR of the quest they will get less Bravery Bonus and their Dungeons Completed count will not be incremented. The reduction - 25% on Hard and 50% on Elite/Reaper - will be the same as on live."

is not compatible with

Example:

You are running a level 10 dungeon on Reaper. The modified challenge rating is 12 - since Reaper uses the CR for Elite. If your character is level 13 or lower there is no penalty. Level 14 would give a reduction of -10% of base XP. Level 15 would give a reduction of -25% of base XP. Level 16 would give a reduction of -50% of base XP. Level 17 would give a reduction of -75% of base XP. Level 18 would give a reduction of -99% of base XP. Higher levels would reduce the XP to zero.

[Silverleafeon]

With the proposed changes we will get slightly less regular xp on reaper,

Not true, someone took my figures from the test server to analyze thus and found reaper xp is getting a slight buff not nerf.

RXP still gets the same first time +200% bonus as before which totally independent of bravery and any other first time bonuses.
RXP still gets the typical bonuses.
RXP gets increased daily bonuses.

Now, the option to run quests at level +2 looks interesting. This probably means dropping the ES sagas only doing the individual quests if they are worthwhile instead running more lower level quests to get 2 levels ahead (or 3 levels, clarifications pending).

Reaper can now be run at level +3 without xp/rxp penalty (proved by my data from the test servers.
Reaper can now be run at level +4 with a mild -10% penalty.

No data on epic reaper dungeons which should be the same or possibly even wider margins.

I am curious what others think wrt. this. Do you expect to take advantage of being able to run reaper over level?

Heavens yes.
On the test sever I was able to run the Vale at level 19 (breaking the old "never ever take level 19 rule") with a poor build, poor equipment and five gold seal hires who rarely died.
The grouping versatility and power advantage is huge.

Given the new knowledge for me that bravery has nothing to do with rxp, and the wide variety of quests, I can scatter strategy to the wind in favor of grouping up with other player's rxp trains and smoking higher level rxp.

Ok. As promised I ran it on live to compare. I ran it on a level 4 so 50% penalty. And I didn't get the 10% for kills... so:

base 56 awarded 114.
x 1.1 for length, x 0.5 overlevel, +10 persist, +10 flawless, +20 daily, +25 tome, (+hidden 200 first time reaper). Consistent with the way it's being calculated on Lama. Which means: reaper xp is getting a straight buff. There is no change in the way it's calculated, we are just getting more for daily bonus and being allowed to run higher level. Every scenario for rxp is either the same or more in the new version vs live.

[mikarddo]

Not true, someone took my figures from the test server to analyze thus and found reaper xp is getting a slight buff not nerf.

RXP still gets the same first time +200% bonus as before which totally independent of bravery and any other first time bonuses.
RXP still gets the typical bonuses.
RXP gets increased daily bonuses..

Yes, I get that which is more than Sev seems to. However, the part you replied to is about regular xp when running reaper, not rxp. So you misread the part you replied to. Regular xp seems to ve down when running reaper once and done.

[SirValentine]

...take advantage of being able to run reaper over level?

Taking advantage is a good description. They're further legitimizing exploitative behavior, and further rewarding the people who've been abusing the system.