Multi-Patch/Update Preview: XP Changes

[Odysseus2011]

Just make optional xp awarded upon quest completion, that would solve people doing WK farms and would leave everything else unchanged.

[afroblue]

Since Epic Reincarnates do not reset first time bonuses and slayer zone counts, this change will make consecutive ER's even more tedious since each life will use up more first time quest bonuses. Making these changes in conjunction with adding 12 more Epic past lives isn't nice...

If I had my wish, it would be to cause ER's to reset slayer zones and first time quest bonuses as part of these broader xp changes.

Resetting first time bonus with Epic TR may be the simple solution to the problem. I totally agree.

To encourage more variety in the quests people play, would it perhaps be feasible to implement a special "Quest of the Day" every day that gives a hefty +50% XP bonus on first completion (in addition to any daily or other bonuses)?

If a different quest got this bonus every single day, and if it the quest was listed on the login screen, that would surely result in a wider selection of quests being run.

Wonderful idea, too. Probably, not easy to implement it.

[0ldschool]

To encourage more variety in the quests people play, would it perhaps be feasible to implement a special "Quest of the Day" every day that gives a hefty +50% XP bonus on first completion (in addition to any daily or other bonuses)?

If a different quest got this bonus every single day, and if it the quest was listed on the login screen, that would surely result in a wider selection of quests being run.

Really great idea! Not only would it improve diversity of quests being played, it would allow the smaller player base to more easily group, at least for that quest. Could they open up the level ranges for the "Quest of the day" as well? That would REALLY help grouping.

EDIT: I want to just say again how great this idea is. It is such a great idea that we would quickly be asking for two Quests of the Day. Throw in a permanent buddy bonus for the Quest of the Day and you've got a major increase in quest diversity AND a spectacular incentive for getting a full group together to run these quests.

And finally, to SSG, here is how you win. This idea would absolutely drive non-VIPs to VIP, or pack purchases for dedicated Premiums, to get access to the quests. You get to choose the quests. Put a pack at 20% off in the store and then make 4 consecutive Quests of the Day from that pack if you choose. Sit back and watch the Quest of the Day addicts buy. Rinse and repeat for other packs. I think everybody can win here.

[0ldschool]

Since Epic Reincarnates do not reset first time bonuses and slayer zone counts, this change will make consecutive ER's even more tedious since each life will use up more first time quest bonuses. Making these changes in conjunction with adding 12 more Epic past lives isn't nice.

I do fully support the elimination of the bravery bonus hassles.

If I had my wish, it would be to cause ER's to reset slayer zones and first time quest bonuses as part of these broader xp changes.

+1

[SerPounce]

Sev, your math doesn't add up.

[*]Quests like Devil Assault where a big chunk of XP is technically optional, but isn't really. This applies in less extreme degrees to a LOT of quests, especially in and around Eveningstar, which given your list of quests getting XP bumps, aren't supposed to be nerfed.

This is a good point. At the very least if is this is going forward basically as presented DA should have "optional" wave XP incorporated into the base XP. Otherwise DA's XP is being cut in half which is a completely unreasonable nerf. The XP is already mediocre at best.

(Resetting first time bonuses would be good for this issue also, but I have less hope that could actually happen as we have no idea how difficulty it is from a programming perspective)

[rabidfox]

To encourage more variety in the quests people play, would it perhaps be feasible to implement a special "Quest of the Day" every day that gives a hefty +50% XP bonus on first completion (in addition to any daily or other bonuses)?

If a different quest got this bonus every single day, and if it the quest was listed on the login screen, that would surely result in a wider selection of quests being run.

Add a quest giver (in the Halls of heroes) that tosses you into a random open group in your level bracket (added benefit of not having to travel to the actual quest location). No say in what instance you end up in and the instance doesn't require you to own the quest pack (so it'd be a great chance to encourage trying new content you might not have bothered buying/playing before). Bonus XP for the first 5x times per day you use it (exiting an instance and resetting uses up one of those to discourage picking the best instances). Some groups will be awesome, some will be full of fail, but it's the trade-off for a bunch of extra XP. Could even bump up the odds of getting named loot (+5% or something) too when using it. Probably outside the scope of what the code would allow, but when daydreaming, might as well go big.

[Potatofasf]

Add a quest giver (in the Halls of heroes) that tosses you into a random open group in your level bracket (added benefit of not having to travel to the actual quest location)

ESO has it... the Queue process to form parties to Random or Especific dungeons.

[Fallout47]

The optional ransack seems like incredible overkill for a minor problem.

1) Lots of players don't want to play heroics. This would force them to TR more frequently. If they hate heroics, they will end up hating the game and leave. That's not good for anyone.

2) There are a lot of epic quest packs that people simply don't like. That's why they don't run them. You might want people to play a variety of quests, but it's on you guys to make those quests attractive enough to play. You need more carrots, not more sticks. My husband, for example, absolutely hates the Eveningstar quest chain. So if he has to run it because you guys have decided we should play a "wide variety," that makes the game less fun for him. When people feel forced into running stuff they dislike...they stop playing the game. And again, that's not good for anyone.

3) If you are worried about optionals like wiz king, just fix it like you fixed Crucible. You get the optional xp at completion. That was actually a perfect solution and applies here as well.

4) Why is it even a concern to you all whether people run a wide variety of quests or dailies? People play how they want to play. If you insist on locking people into the way you want them to play, you are going to lose people. A lot of people are drawn to and stay with DDO because it offers a lot of options. We aren't locked into builds, we aren't locked into heroic or epic, we aren't locked into (for the most part) who we play with. So you have a population of players that want freedom, and you are now trying to restrict that for I don't know what reason. I can't imagine that's going to end well in the player numbers game.

This is a real concern for me, since if we end up with players getting frustrated and leaving, it hurts us all. Who cares if players run sagas or dailies? Who cares if people are running one-and-done or mindlessly grinding wiz king? Not me. They are all playing, and so they are all contributing to the game with their numbers and their money.

If you are worried about promoting LFMs, this won't do it.

Very nice assessment of the possible consequences of this proposed change.

I suspect the main problem is not just Wiz King and the other dailies, it is a lack luster sale in their Epic Ottos Boxes. They literally suck. The old box sells for the same price as a Heroic Ottos and provides about enough epic XP for 3-4 levels. The 'Improved' Epic Ottos does better but comes with a hefty price tag. Toss the 'Improved' version, up the old Epic Ottos to get you from 20-28(where epic life begins) and stop taking a sledge-hammer approach to your players.

[karatemack]

To encourage more variety in the quests people play, would it perhaps be feasible to implement a special "Quest of the Day" every day that gives a hefty +50% XP bonus on first completion (in addition to any daily or other bonuses)?

If a different quest got this bonus every single day, and if it the quest was listed on the login screen, that would surely result in a wider selection of quests being run.

This is an amazing idea! Might be a great way to encourage people to engage with the challenges more often? Because most challenges offer a broad level range, a large number of players would be able to participate.

Also, it's nice to see so many in the community in clear agreement on something. I suspect the relative silence from the dev team is because they are taking this feedback to heart. Fingers crossed.

[bracelet]

Random thoughts:

Tower of Frost, the Druid's Curse chain and Tethyamar would need to see some top level XP increases to have me set foot in any of those. Especially Tower of Frost. That would have to be a 100% increase in the base before I would take another look at it.

Decreasing the first time rxp is funny. Take that new players!

Two posters in this thread have indicated that reaper will become harder after this adjustment. Where are they getting that information?

[Cantor]

Random thoughts:

Tower of Frost, the Druid's Curse chain and Tethyamar would need to see some top level XP increases to have me set foot in any of those. Especially Tower of Frost. That would have to be a 100% increase in the base before I would take another look at it.

Decreasing the first time rxp is funny. Take that new players!

Two posters in this thread have indicated that reaper will become harder after this adjustment. Where are they getting that information?

The reaper change thread says r1 r2 are getting tougher.

[ShamgarSlamaden]

Announce xp nerf —-> put ottos boxes on sale. Smooth.

[erethizon]

This is often not true. A lot of us use dailies to level our underpowered alts, even though we have the skills from our main toons. This just hurts new players and alts more...again...

But mostly I'm concerned that people feeling forced to play a certain way or certain things they don't like will just leave the game.

The people that leave because they can't do dailies will be made up for by the people that don't leave because they didn't bore themselves into quitting by running dailies that they don't enjoy but were merely doing because it was efficient. People will often ruin their own fun if it increases efficiency.

[Silverleafeon]

Bravery Bonus will be based on the base XP for the dungeon as if you were on elite, even if you are playing on hard. Right now the Bravery streak is, at full bonus, 70% of the base XP on Elite. We are increasing that bonus to 100% so players will get more XP the first time they play each quest.

Seem to remember reaper xp being affected by bravery at least last year or so?
Is this a current bug, not affecting thus?
Been proven not working?

Devs can you tell us whether bravery bonus is suppose to affect reaper xp, because if it should and you make sure of thus your numbers are much closer than if it does not?
Please lend us insight for my confusion on the matter?

[Seph1roth5]

Meh, the idea of XP adjusting isn't BAD (remember when no one ever ran spies?), but it seems like they're just increasing quests that no one really ran, and decreasing ones people run all the time, without really figuring out why.

Plenty of people have already commented on the quests that even with a major (I don't really count 10% as major...) xp boost they wouldn't run it, such as tower of frost.

I also don't get what the push to get people to play a variety of quests are...On one of my tr lives with friends we ran every quest, it was...interesting-ish, but not something I want to do again lol. There definitely seems to be a lot of punishment for people who eTR a lot, which I thought was who spent the most $$ on the game?

[RAFAR]

He lives on in the Test Dojo. Just become ethereal and walk through the north wall, he's next to the fountain.

I'd like to use him as a training dummy (fleshy no-fort, very high hp/immortal). Just convert him on the spot. Could also get random #getdamaged voices from sentient gems, too!
He has caused many headaches by somehow failing to stop/start my streaks in the past, now I want revenge!

[MyStiK-GaMeR]

...we have put together some changes we feel will improve players game experience...

I assume that this is the ultimate goal of the changes... to make the game more enjoyable. If I want to please my wife I should probably listen to her when she tells me whats enjoyable and what's not so enjoyable, am I right? I assume you feel the same way which is exactly why you've encouraged feedback. So here's mine:

1. -10% to popular daily quests (spies, von3, G&B) and then adding back 10% via the daily bonus (Change 3) so it balances out on the first run and its a negative for the second run. So its a small negative. Not enough to make me do different quests or avoid a second run, just enough to irk me a bit.

2. Changing BB to have two counters instead of one is a great idea. Having the BB not be losable is another great idea! Yes this is good. Keep the person with these ideas on staff.

3. Increase the Daily bonus - Good, it probably wouldn't be enough to discourage a second run given the time spent traveling between quests but I wont complain about more xp.

4. "It is not our goal to increase outgoing XP" - error on the side of grace. If there's no change to overall xp fine, however if there is a change, I hope It's a net positive rather than negative.


5. "Optional objectives will ransack, and that ransack will not reset over time" - Perma ransack on optional xp is an absolutely horrible idea. I don't advocate for people to lose their jobs, but good god man! Who the hell thought this one up!? I suppose we can all stay calm and keep playing because this hasn't happened yet. If you want to fix WK farming, fix it by making Opt Xp to be awarded upon quest completion only (Good idea from TheBigEyedRabbit, DDO Subreddit).


6. The over and under level bonuses for Reaper will be changed to be the same as Elite - Another great idea. Did the person who came up with number two also come up with this? If so, they deserve a raise!

[hunzi2010]

@Sev

Still waiting on confirmation please regarding ransack will only effect xp or chests aswell.

Thank you

Regards
Hunzi

[ElweSulk]

This was depressing news

I'm a long time player for more than 10 years. Don't do Raids, do group play only with couple of my friends, not a fan of heroics (try to skip as much as possible with help of otto), and play semi-casual (several times pr week for some hours). I have 3 "main's" - one parked at 30, one stuck at 16, and one on ETR train. Well, ETR train.... I level very slowly so 20-30 is like 3+ months or more for me.

I have some select quests I like to do, and do repeat them. I don't like to be forced to diversify which quests I do. With this permanent ransack optional xp... What are you doing devs? Secret agenda to get people to quit your game?

[erethizon]

My toon is on the test server at level 19 inside rainbow of the dark, receiving bravery bonus.

That is level 16 dungeon with level 19 toon.


This dungeons listed bravery base as 471 rxp for toon at character level 18 and 19.
Bug reporting.

Sounds like a definite improvement. Maybe since being 1 level over the elite level of a quest still grants full experience without the 10% penalty you get for being two levels over the elite level of the quest it also means you get Bravery Bonus. It would be excellent if players up to 3 levels above the base level of the quest could get Bravery Bonus and max reaper experience for the quest (especially since reaper experience has been lowered compared to what you are currently getting when running quests at level). Hopefully what you describe is 100% intentional but if it isn't hopefully they leave it as you describe. Forming groups will be so much easier if we can post for a wider level range (especially if the level 19 player and a level 14 player can be in the same group without the level 14 getting a power level penalty).