Multi-Patch/Update Preview: XP Changes

[Fedora1]

Okay so we all know about WizKing, VON3 and DA.

What other quests have a good amount of optional xp, or even optional objectives that are not really optional? I'd like to compile a list before this goes live.

WizKing
VON3
Devil Assault
Fresh Baked Dreams (wolves are not optional)
TOEE - do the slayers XP show up as optional objectives?

That's off the top of my head. Any others?

[HouseAtreides]

I love that there's 22 pages of discussion here and the only dev response is to some cutesy bull **** about about flagging unrelated content. ROFL

[gaffneyks]

Why is it every time I come back to the game after a break the devs do something to drive me out.

But thanks for adding xp to crappy quest. 10% of crappy is still crappy.

Thanks for nerfing optional xp. This will help me run to optional chest in places like White Plum Mountain as I am sure all the Zergers will love that as I try and farm **** they
already have.

I am glad you didn't fix the long run to the quest with sucky xp. It will give me time to talk to the zergers, maybe I can distract them a bit so I can get to the quest before they end it. See they all got the free
Quivers of Alacrity you gave out for free while I was on another break.

Bravery streak, Ok change. I end up screwing up somewhere along a life and messing this up, but its not like its hard to run 5 elite quest. Small carrot there.....

The XP changes and the Reaper changes to nerf CCs. Make this update totally suck and messing with the destinies ain't gonna fix that.

Honestly for a non uber toon, more bad that good out of this one.

This game already has too much grind.

I missed the Amber Temple exploit, so is there anything you can do to make it more difficult for me in Reaper? It would not be fair for me to try and catch up to the exploiters. Of course with this many changes being made, I might stick around long enough to see what new xp exploit is found as that will be a good watch. Probably a better show that the constant grind you are making this game.

[nokowi]

My first though, you never did "The Claw of Vulkoor" on sneaky way. That was fun years ago, even got my Epic Shatterbow.
Is other way to play this game that all seems want to erase, and don't know why.

The great thing of games like this one, is that you can play them however you want, but if you start with the "There is only one correct way to play this game":
· You can't sneak all the quest!
· You can't level through daily quest.
· You can't solo the content.
· You can't avoid quest that you don't like, because you have to run all the content.
· You can't ETR-ETR-ETR-ETR

That someone impose you how you should play the game isn't fun.

Strambotica,

Take a look at my signature. I'm being sarcastic.

At every opportunity, SSG has taken the low road and ignored player preferences
- "not supporting" stealth in reaper while not bothering to tell the player base
- treating the player base that recognized what they were doing with disrespect (saying no to a requested discussion with the player base about what they were doing), calling them bad people, etc
- intentionally giving out infractions against those that said they were doing exactly what they were doing
- supporting wholesale trolling of players saying that they were not supporting stealth
- removing all interesting (competing) tactical decisions, while creating more build choices that result in game play cycling through buttons 1 through 3
- making sure solo play is a boring grind (mass agro, removing tactical tools)
- making sure group play is monotonous (design the game around XP/time, make each role very specific and monotonous)

You are exactly correct that SSG tries to mold the player to their design, instead of providing design for the players. That is the very core of bad design philosophy, where player preferences and player enjoyment don't matter. Their actions speak much louder than their words, and their actions don;t support meeting player preferences or diversity of play (not build).

Their XP changes won't matter one bit, because they have drastically reduced LFM's and the enjoyment of the game that would already be enough for players to play all the quest lines. The fact that they have to do this XP change is a result of how little they have designed for player enjoyment. The only thing the remaining player base cares about is rewards/time, as they chased anyone interested in anything else away for the last few years.

The fix would be to start listening to player enjoyment over RXP/time instead of modifying RXP/time, but SSG once again takes the low road, with predicatble results.

[LightBear]

Ugh - you're preaching to the choir, here. I have a tentative "fix" that breaks the NPC's scripts to let people in the front door without the stones. Unfortunately, the intricities of this particular flagging method make it not as easy to refactor as it sounds. My "fix" is very much a "let's start deleting logic until the door just appears" thing, and it's nowhere near ready to release as-is.

I am also toying with an "Upgraded Completed Sigil" that will retain your flagging for Accursed Ascension (it'll be an upgraded Completed Sigil that holds your flagging for Litany of the Dead).

Want an "easy" solution...
(From a players perspective that is )
Flag those stones as collectibles that can go into your red-bag but simple "forget" to remove those from inventory when turning them in.
And then change the narration text to that you have to show them instead of having to turn them in.

[Cantor]

Okay so we all know about WizKing, VON3 and DA.

What other quests have a good amount of optional xp, or even optional objectives that are not really optional? I'd like to compile a list before this goes live.

WizKing
VON3
Devil Assault
Fresh Baked Dreams (wolves are not optional)
TOEE - do the slayers XP show up as optional objectives?

That's off the top of my head. Any others?

I hadn't thought about TOEE, that's a big hit if you like to treat it like a wilderness.

DA is hit big, but that's not why people run it. It almost doesn't matter that it gives any exp for someone farming tokens to TR asap, but I think the exp should get rolled into the end reward, it's a long quest and you can't reduce completion time.

VoN3, wizking are the targeted offenders. I'd rather just see the optionals in von3 reduced since they are on the path. Things that are truly optional should give xp. Inline optionals are just fluff xp.

bonegrinder: You can do it without killing the wolves.


Not considering heroic only since it's not going to see heavy reruns... I *'d the ones I think matter at all.

mirror: I always do the beholder and the orders, but my completion time will just improve by skipping them.
WGU: getting the keys/vocis and treasure are a nice bit of xp but the base is good enough.
*lines of supply: terrible end xp, the optionals make it ok.
detour: minbosses, though I already skip them if they can be skipped, no big loss.
*overgrowth: if you can catch the woodwoads it's a nice boost for a quest with low total xp.
*PoP: each cell, it's a long quest the rewards help.
spies: prisoners, also targeted nerf.
Chrono: reduce numbers of legion, air
trial by fury: many
price of freedom: many, particularly *giving up the treasure at the end.
belly of the beast: optional deals.

I'd propose no base xp nerfs to von and spies if they stick with the perma ransack. The major offenders get the nerf just from losing optional repeats, von3, wizking, and spies hit heavy by optional losses, they don't need a base nerf. Wizking may qualify for a small (5%) epic boost if you perma ransack.

Optionals are not a major component of Grim or litany so I'm ok with it. Litany was one of the heroic only I would have mentioned for optionals, the flagging is a xp hole since it's after completion but you are probably not rerunning the flagging areas. Grim and barret has small optionals that don't take any extra time and it's primarily for rxp not exp.

[LucidLTS]

Greetings!

We have been analyzing our data on quests, completion times, and completion numbers, and we have put together some changes we feel will improve players game experience throughout their leveling adventures. We realize that experience points and how players earn them can greatly affect a player's game experience, so we want players to understand the changes.

First, I want to explain our goals with these changes:
~ The rate of leveling overall should not drop for an average player who is playing a lot of different quests.
~ Players should be rewarded for playing a wide variety of quests instead of repeating quests over and over.

Why? Why do you guys insist on this "You must have your fun my way" mindset? This is utterly stupid, your customers should decide how they have their fun, and if it isn't what you imagined, get a better imagination instead of railroading your customers. It's insulting that you think I can't figure out for myself what I like. If I had a favorite song would you insist the volume decreased on successive plays to encourage me to listen to a greater variety of songs? If not, drop this painful arrogance and let us decide for ourselves.

Furthermore, many people draw comfort from the familiar, why punish them? Before you answer "to keep some people from abusing the high XP/Min ratio of some quests", remember that *you* could fix that by adjusting the XP of fast quests, if you did that well you wouldn't need to try to stamp out repeating quests.

Do you ever wonder why you've got a game based on an IP with 13 million active players and like one tenth of one percent of them are playing your game? Because D&D lets you play any way you want, and you try to force us to play how you want us to play. Stop doing that, you're killing your game. Repeating a quest is not a problem for you, when we're playing that quest for the 20th time we're still playing your game!

~ Players should not be punished for breaking their regular play pattern to join a group or to help out friends and guild mates.

Yay, that's the spirit!

~ We want to close some loopholes for optional objectives.

As a result of these changes, we hope that more dungeons are viable for normal experience gains, and that playing through a wide variety of dungeons is more appealing and playing dungeons over and over is less appealing. If you are playing the quest the first time in Heroic, you should get the same experience points as before. In Epic you will have an additional 5% bonus.


1. We are going to make some XP changes to specific quests to bring them into line with their completion time and difficulty. Four quests will have their XP lowered, while many quests will have their XP raised. The exact list has been added to the bottom of this post.

Note: Not all specific dungeon XP adjustments are implemented, and not all values are final.


2. Bravery Streak for both hard and elite will change to Hard Dungeons Completed and Elite Dungeons Completed. Bravery streaks will no longer end; they won’t have a chance for ending, you won’t need to turn off your streak (or worse, mess your streak up by forgetting), and you can freely play at any difficulty without the count resetting.

Excellent decision

The bravery streak bonus will be moved into the standard bravery bonus at its full value. We will still track how many times you finish hard and elite dungeons in the UI, but you are no longer required to playing 5 dungeons in a row at a specific difficulty to build a streak. More on this below.

Bravery Bonus will be based on the base XP for the dungeon as if you were on elite, even if you are playing on hard. Right now the Bravery streak is, at full bonus, 70% of the base XP on Elite. We are increasing that bonus to 100% so players will get more XP the first time they play each quest.

To clarify, playing a quest on Elite/Reaper will give the full 100% bonus. Playing the quest on Hard gives 50% of the Bravery bonus XP BUT you can reclaim the rest of the Bravery XP if you play it later on Elite. So the most efficient way to get the Bravery XP bonus is to play on Elite, but if you help a friend on Hard you can still get the rest of the difference on Elite/Reaper later. Yes, it is less efficient but you don’t *lose* the bonus.

To clarify how the new totals work: as previously, when you complete a Hard dungeon quest your Hard Dungeons completed total will increase. When you complete a Elite or Reaper dungeon quest your Hard and Elite totals will be increased.


3. Increase the Daily bonus.

To further encourage a diversity of dungeons, the Daily bonus will be increased from 20% to 25% for Heroic dungeons, and 30% for Epic dungeons.


4. Move some of the XP from the First time bonus, which is per difficulty, to the Bravery bonus.

It is not our goal to increase outgoing XP; to pay for the above increases we plan on lowering the First time bonus per difficulty.

Normal difficulty will decrease from 25% to 10%.
Hard difficulty will decrease from 40% to 20%.
Elite difficulty will decrease from 80% to 45%.
Reaper difficulty will decrease from 120% to 75%.

What does this mean:
~ On Normal, Hard, and Elite the first time through a Heroic dungeon including the daily bonus will be the same as it is on live. The first time through Epic dungeons will actually give slightly more XP.
~ This makes the practice of repeating dungeons on each difficulty less attractive than finding a new dungeon.

These are good too. I particularly like the ability to "make it up later", you feel you haven't really lost anything if you "break" your streak. You need a lot more of this flexibility in your game. D&D is a success largely because it gives players so many options, there is no one path to success. You need to regain that in DDO, and getting rid of that "you broke your streak now you have to rebuild it" mechanic is a step in the right direction.

5. Optional objectives will ransack, and that ransack will not reset over time; they are essentially being changed to a play-through bonus with ransack that only resets with a Racial, True and Iconic Reincarnations. To compensate, optional objectives will ransack more slowly. With this change we can add more, or make more of them have greater rewards. Note: the reduced rate at which optional objectives ransack has not yet been changed on the test server.

NO! Don't do it!

Look, frankly, you guys are terrible at distinguishing optional from mandatory, but it hasn't really mattered because we got the XP anyway. This is a stupid idea in any event, but it's made truly horrid by the arbitrary assignment of "optional". If you went through all the quest, and I mean ALL, and made sure that only things that could be skipped were marked as optional and the XP reward for them was proportionate to the effort to complete them, then this idea would merely be bad, but with the current state of "optional" objectives it's so bad I can't find words to sufficiently describe it.

And you build in drivers to get us to re-run content - raid runes, 20th completions, low drop rates, etc. So you're telling us to keep running them but we're going to get less and less for it? Because you can? How do you think we're going to feel about that?

I get why you're doing it. You messed up on the XP scaling of some optionals, and it's too much work to go through and fix them on a case by case basis, so you settle for a ham handed overreaction. Do you remember MaBan? Extreeeeeme Prejudice? This is another Bad Choice. Maybe not as bad as either of those, but bad in the same way, it's a knee jerk reaction that goes way overboard and causes more harm than good.

6. The over and under level bonuses for Reaper will be changed to be the same as Elite. This will reduce confusion and provide a wider grouping level.
The hard stop to entering Reaper on Epic will remain as it is on live, but Heroic will prevent characters from entering Reaper dungeons in the Heroic levels if they are more than 4 levels above the base challenge rating of the quest.

Wider grouping level is desperately needed in this game, though I'm not sure this change will help all that much. As long as your admitting to this problem, how about removing the lock out of quests more than 3 levels above your character level?

THE QUEST CHANGE LIST

This list is not fully implemented on test. Values are still subject to change!


Feedback is welcome.

Sev~

OK, this is actually an area that does need work, so kudos to you for putting in some effort here. Please make sure, though, that you are careful in your data analysis and consider only the characters that are running the quests at or near level when you measure how long it takes and how much XP it gives. Quests farmed for items or favor by higher level characters can have significantly reduced completion times and that can skew your results hugely to the detriment of normal players. For example, Proof in the Poison is a painful slog at level and utterly unworth the meager XP it rewards, but I usually run it much later for the favor. My speed run on an overleveled character shouldn't be grounds for penalizing the poor sod trying to complete at level.

Similarly, you should break out your results by number of past lives (a good proxy for player experience) to make sure you're not unfairly penalizing weaker players. A few guys on a TR train can complete more quests in a week than dozens of casual new players, if you even make it evenly balanced by the average you're really increasing the grind for the larger (and more likely to quit!) population. Those guys with 50 past lives are going to keep playing DDO even if you get the balance wrong, but you keep a new player grinding away to get to level 5 in the time it takes to get to level 50 in NWO or GW2, and guess where they're going?

[lyrecono]

Thank you so much for the optional nerf, no optionals, less time wasted, faster quest completions, aka faster zergs, i always hated those slow pugger that feel the need to run back and go loot in wiz king, without the optionals, that doesn't open.

As for the regular nerfs and boosts to various quests. Half of them aren't playeble on lots of builds if you play in the dead hours when 13 people are online so nothing lost here, nothing but dailies for the next 30 past lives (3 toons X10new epic lives).

Wich is good for the wallet too, no need to buy new packs, the ballance is terrible and the loot? Well, sub par to say the least.

Dailies for the win all around!


Or i can.play and spend less?

Ugh - you're preaching to the choir, here. I have a tentative "fix" that breaks the NPC's scripts to let people in the front door without the stones. Unfortunately, the intricities of this particular flagging method make it not as easy to refactor as it sounds. My "fix" is very much a "let's start deleting logic until the door just appears" thing, and it's nowhere near ready to release as-is.

I am also toying with an "Upgraded Completed Sigil" that will retain your flagging for Accursed Ascension (it'll be an upgraded Completed Sigil that holds your flagging for Litany of the Dead).

You could have placed a portal aginst the wall leading to the sos slayer area and skip the pc entirely.
Just remove all the flagging from that pack, aka, let us craft and enter any slayer zone& quest. The pack is nearly 11 yesrs old, just let it go, just make it free to acces the slayer area.

[Cantor]

Why? Why do you guys insist on this "You must have your fun my way" mindset? This is utterly stupid, your customers should decide how they have their fun, and if it isn't what you imagined, get a better imagination instead of railroading your customers. It's insulting that you think I can't figure out for myself what I like. If I had a favorite song would you insist the volume decreased on successive plays to encourage me to listen to a greater variety of songs? If not, drop this painful arrogance and let us decide for ourselves.

Is anyone really having fun doing the same quests over and over? If the exp was not so much better would the dailies be dailies? Of course not, it's absurd to say people run them because it's their fun choice. They run them because it's the easiest way to advance. (otherwise they'd still be running them everyday at level 30) Instead of looking at it as if they are try to force you to do it their way, consider they might be trying to improve your options. When a hand full of quests are so much better exp/min than anything else, you feel like you are going backwards to do anything else. Bringing them in line increases options, not reduces.

[Silverleafeon]

Maybe give an npc text line "Please give me 3 random stones, so il be flagged." and let npc gives us that stones? :P Seems fast and easy :P

+1 quote of the week
Absolutely brilliant

In fact, just hand them all 6 gems from an npc?

[Grace_ana]

bonegrinder: You can do it without killing the wolves.

No, you can't. You have to kill a certain number of wolves for Valentina to spawn. You can't progress to the windmill until she does and you talk to her. So, it's not really an optional.

Is anyone really having fun doing the same quests over and over? If the exp was not so much better would the dailies be dailies? Of course not, it's absurd to say people run them because it's their fun choice. They run them because it's the easiest way to advance. (otherwise they'd still be running them everyday at level 30) Instead of looking at it as if they are try to force you to do it their way, consider they might be trying to improve your options. When a hand full of quests are so much better exp/min than anything else, you feel like you are going backwards to do anything else. Bringing them in line increases options, not reduces.

I'm glad we all have you and a couple others here to tell us how we should be enjoying our free time. We're obviously all just morons who don't know how to handle minor life decisions.

[MasterKernel]

Come on, people ! 22 pages of of pure nonsense !

Why? Why do you guys insist on this "You must have your fun my way" mindset? This is utterly stupid

Because, that would bring money for them !
With the dailies, you need only 4 packs : VoN (Von3,4,5), Sands (WK), 3BC (TTT) and Sentinels (Spies). You have them — you can play for all eternity without spending a dime !

This 'XP nerf' is nothing but a scam. The real goal is to force players buy more adventure packs, add-ons, Otto's boxes and XP stones. Nobody cares about your playstyle and stuff.

XD

[SoVeryBelgian]

Lot's I probably could complain about in this, but thank you for boosting these. I have always thought they were way under xp for their effort.



Desire in the Dark
Graveyard Shift
Records of the Past
Strike Back
Third Time’s a Charm

Agreed x100

Always a letdown, many people ignore Tethyamar. Now if you'd just rebalance the item stats... kek


A bit sad about losing my Litany farm tho... why'd I bother memorizing that puzzle...


EDIT:

On second read, I'm finding the XP Loss as a whole to be quite intense, that in itself might incline me to not play as often. I don't need my hamster wheel to be an even longer slog.

And Newbies and 1st Lifers as whole will have to deal with it from the start.

Also it seems like you're able to Nerf Devil Assault, but still have not considered fixing the timer. Please add a Bell Ring mechanic to speed up runs.

[MasterKernel]

Is anyone really having fun doing the same quests over and over?

YES !

Dailies are predictable, well-known quests. I know how many on them I can run in the time I have and what the result would be.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Maybe give an npc text line "Please give me 3 random stones, so il be flagged." and let npc gives us that stones? :P Seems fast and easy :P

Just to avoid exploits, it would be good to make this a once-per-life quest like the Hall of Dragonmark "free feat respec" quest.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Is anyone really having fun doing the same quests over and over?

Yes.

I also have fun playing Mario Brothers with my son. I don't remember which Mario Brothers it is, but it's the same one we've been playing for 7 years. We've never beaten it. We still enjoy it.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I hadn't thought about TOEE, that's a big hit if you like to treat it like a wilderness.

DA is hit big, but that's not why people run it. It almost doesn't matter that it gives any exp for someone farming tokens to TR asap, but I think the exp should get rolled into the end reward, it's a long quest and you can't reduce completion time.

VoN3, wizking are the targeted offenders. I'd rather just see the optionals in von3 reduced since they are on the path. Things that are truly optional should give xp. Inline optionals are just fluff xp.

bonegrinder: You can do it without killing the wolves.


Not considering heroic only since it's not going to see heavy reruns... I *'d the ones I think matter at all.

mirror: I always do the beholder and the orders, but my completion time will just improve by skipping them.

Beholder is still worth doing because the Sentient XP you get from it doesn't decay.

[Jerevth]

There are a lot of changes being announced (XP changes are the latest) but it seems like legitimate, player-based concerns are met with, "We agree there's an issue but it's on the backburner while we work on update #XX." So much so that, at this point the only burn they get is freezer burn.

Forum stated issues:
-Long-bows: acknowledged as needing work. A great deal of player interest. 0 Development effort at this time.
-Two-handed fighting (Before the poster orc chimes in again): A great deal of player interest (also 1/4 of the melee options.) 0 development at this time.
-Older quests that are ignored because of game-play issues, long runs between quests, low xp, etc. (Mines, Tower of Frost, Coyle, etc.)
-Storage.
-Alt play
-The quality of in-game Customer service.
-Orange and blue robe cosmetics and skull shaped cod pieces/ looking at you, Art Team.
-Dwindling client base (Seriously guys, just advertise with the D&D themed online comics!)

I play caster-heavy; VON3 is a pain in the butt until I get FOD or long range DOTs in order to kill 8 beholders from afar, or I run with others who can tink-tink-tink. I accept the limitation but I also expect the XP result to match the effort put into it.

Conversely, because Ubur-Jim and his crack team of commando plinkers can run the quest in 3 minutes flat (hyperbole) doesn't mean my 30 minute time should result in garbage xp to keep them in check. This isn't the pursuit of a college degree at Harvard with the bell curve based on the highest performer and only the top quarter will be getting passing grades. Your metrics and focus are off. Should you even worry about keeping them in check? So what. Worry about the broader player base (all 50 of them).

"We want you to enjoy the quests we build" should not be followed up with "Hi. Announcement: we're lowering XP results for repeated optionals so you'll need to start zerging after the second time through."
"Because I said so," doesn't work here. It's supposed to be a partnership not parenting.

There's a lot of thinking that runs along the same train of thought that I see when working with software engineers: part of that is you won't Talk/ Listen to the end user of the product if you can avoid it. You assume your fix is the best and they have to adapt. The forum response is, for the most part, providing valid feedback and yet the OP Dev is not responding. You can say "We're listening", but without a considered response to address these concerns this discussing will spiral. Heck, even Flimsy is quiet and we have a whole dump on fire!

You have the rudder on this ship, but we're pointing out the shoals, the storms and the pirates. Yet you are blithely sailing on toward the whole mess. Development of the game is a team effort: Developers and end users. Some of these "updates" strike me as heavy-handed, narrow-sighted and deaf to the voices of the end users; many of whom have played for years (some more than a DECADE) who looked at other games and stayed with this one.

Your change means ETR will become an aligned part of the TR process because ETR- ETR becomes a long slog otherwise. I pointed it out, others pointed it out. You have not yet addressed the concern. Granted that it "Fixes" the problem of having to build a toon back up to level twenty again (Just speed click through, players! Weeee.) when ETR'ing but it's an "Engineering Feature": the spin put on a problem with the current system that you don't/won't/can't fix.

You should have started with a question extended to select forum posters who have given careful, considered feedback in the past and hold the conversation in a closed door manner. This is what the Players Council should do and yet I think I've seen members of the Players Council here raising concerns. That tells me you are undermining the intention of the council and the inherent trust that built.

There are only XX of you developing the game, but there are so many more players who have valid input. (And many who just want to run at the mouth, say it's the end of the world, or "I'm voting with my wallet".) But you have a few stalwarts in the forum who are well-reasoned, who think before they speak and who offer genuinely constructive feedback.

I'll keep playing DDO until it becomes a chore rather than entertaining. Then I'll probably just say, "Thanks for the memories. Take care." and delete my account so I'm not a hypocrite. New packs coming out, many positive changes in the original post and in other recent announcements. Just don't be so quick to close your ears to the rational posters. (Maybe an "Ignore poster" for developers should be available with a sanity check for arbitration first. Flimsy would just ignore everyone before posting anything- I figure this would give him a chuckle so I left it in.)

You should have seen it before I deleted half the side-bar jokes, light sarcasm and sea-stories. I tried to keep it clever, on-topic, humorous and light.

[LucidLTS]

Is anyone really having fun doing the same quests over and over? If the exp was not so much better would the dailies be dailies? Of course not, it's absurd to say people run them because it's their fun choice. They run them because it's the easiest way to advance. (otherwise they'd still be running them everyday at level 30) Instead of looking at it as if they are try to force you to do it their way, consider they might be trying to improve your options. When a hand full of quests are so much better exp/min than anything else, you feel like you are going backwards to do anything else. Bringing them in line increases options, not reduces.

Fine, give all quests the same XP/Min, but do it by making optionals grant XP proportional to the extra time it takes to complete them and adjusting the quest XP to stay the same overall, not by kneecapping optionals.

And yes, I do run quests over and over, I find Devil Assault cathartic and I run it whenever I have a bad day at work and want to take out my frustration on a stream of bad guys. It's not even great XP/Min, but the xp would be horrible without the optionals (which aren't really optional, but you know, SSG). And I'm not an XP/Min chaser, I've run 2TT 4 times, each of the VoNs maybe 2-3 times, and Wiz King twice *this year*. I'm not complaining because my little past life factory would be slowed.

But thanks for telling me what I find fun

[Silverleafeon]

Just to avoid exploits, it would be good to make this a once-per-life quest like the Hall of Dragonmark "free feat respec" quest.

+1 lol

….some player cashing in 6,000 gems on day one, selling them all to the local bartender?

Or I guess one could reduce the value of the gems?

Either way, good catch there.