Multi-Patch/Update Preview: Primal Sphere

[btolson]

Rain of Arrows can still heal things with positive energy. In reaper, this healing greatly outscales the damage of other procs.

Aside from that, this ability is still wildly unimpressive except in its ability to create damage-scrolling lag.

It's also odd that it's essentially a short range personal aura in a ranged destiny.

I think it would function better as either a ranged ability zone ability (like a firewall) or as a close range "oh ****" ability with a slowing proc when it deals damage (more total damage than it does now, and not with 10 types per hit to mitigate the damage-scrolling lag)

[Ballrus]

As in, "When I take the ability with nothing equipped, it grants nothing, and then when I equip a two-handed weapon it goes up by 15?" (If so, it's probably missing the flat +10 it should always have)

Humm.
Now it's different, granting 21 mp:
Without weapon > mp 173
With weapon > mp 194

Ps. Testing with s&b (bswd+shield) and the new maul. Both granting 21 mp.

Edit. Half orc, fighter, vanguard/kensei

[Ballrus]

Humm.
Now it's different, granting 21 mp:
Without weapon > mp 173
With weapon > mp 194

Ps. Testing with s&b (bswd+shield) and the new maul. Both granting 21 mp.

Edit. Half orc, fighter, vanguard/kensei

More tests:
Without weapon > base melee power 145;
Single weapon (Leg Hook) > mp 145;
Single weapon (b swd+shield with thf feats) > mp 166 (6mp from thf feats);
Thf (new maul) > mp 166 (6mp from thf feats).

Aparently, equiping an one handed wpn (non bswd/daxe), granting none mp.
One handed wpn (bswd+shield) and two handed wpn, grant only 15 mp from Fury ED and 6 from thf feats.

Edit. Correct numbers now, my bad.

[lyrecono]

We have further plans for THF in general that are not part of this already-huge Update.

Sad to hear, can you give us a date/ update number? Since this highly awaited fix is not part of this update, can you create a thread about these 2hf changes, after this update?

Can we get a +1 heart to tr into a silvanus worshipping race? Since the wolf/barb/cleric (or fvs according to some) is the only viable way to bypass the broken 2hf system and the str issues that barbs have (aka, they are 20-ish str behind some classes because rage (and frenzy) don't scale well past 20, unlike some class features (paladin), so cc is to much of an issue on a barb of all classes.

Could you also take a look at the new primal past life, see that tread for more info

[Grailhawk]

Primal Avatar

• Primal Avatar gets +1 Evocation and Transmutation DC at cores 2, 4, and 6

This is great thanks! Probably the single reason for me to keep my Caster Druid in PA over EA. Again Thanks!

• Primal Travel no longer costs Spirit, and now has a 90 second cooldown. It also now has a 20 second duration.

This is good its brings the average dodge increase to ~11% ((50*20)/90 = 11.11)

• Walk With Spirits is no longer a toggle. On activation, you gain its effects for 30 seconds. It now has a 4 minute cooldown.

As proposed this is (25 * 30)/240 = 3.125% increase to Incorporeal. Can we get it changed to 20 seconds up time 160 seconds down time (~2.6 min) ((25*20)/160 = 3.125 same overall increase). This will increase its synergy with Primal Travel as a caster Druid you can tap both then run into a pile of mobs and lay down Earthquake and Ice Storm and then begin a cycle of killing.

Another Idea to get the similar effect that I'm looking for is a second version of Primal Travel with out the Jump/Tumble effect that last 30 seconds (could even increase its cooldown to 135 seconds if you want)

• Tsunami now uses a bigger + better detect and has FX similar to Cold Breath.

My Testing is showing that this is a lot better at hitting mobs now and it no longer blows away AOE Effects (Earthquake + Ice Storm) this is great!

Now we just need Poison Spell Power and I think I'll like this destiny quite a bit on my Water elemental Druid thanks.

[barecm]

Ok, so I did some testing with my ranged longbow using ranger (that's still a thing?). Shiradi is now a viable option. You will see more consistent damage, meaning, if you run a long quest and are not relying on burst damage, you will see bigger numbers vs Fury (without being adrenalized). However, if you are doing a raid or something that requires burst damage, you will still want to go FoTW. Shiradi has the Hunt's End, but it has a still too long timer of 24s (I am suggesting 18s). You still can only use 1 time in a manyshot; which is a huge detraction from Fury. Also, there is no unbridled fury, so burst damage suffers as well here.

That being said, for questing (not raiding or when you need burst) Shiradi also offers wisdom in the tree that does not require being raged like FoTW does. And, if you take 4 levels, you wind up in the positive.

My conclusion is the run FoTW while raiding and run Shiradi when I do not need bursty damage. In testing, my non-adrenalized damage running Shiradi (both base and crit) is about 20-30% higher. But the trade off is losing all that burst damage. So, it will definitely need some more extensive comparisons of dps over time.

[Eldried]

From a ranged dps perspective, The Shiradi destiny can't complete with Fury, even if I do not use Unbrideled.
Half the cooldown of Hunt's End to 12 sec and maybe it will be more attractive.

[Dorian]

• Primal Avatar gets +1 Evocation and Transmutation DC at cores 2, 4, and 6

Please add this DC boost to the Shiradi tree. Primal still seems like a weak option for caster druids.

• Tsunami now uses a bigger + better detect and has FX similar to Cold Breath.

What about the DC? Can we get evocation bonuses like you added with Dragon Breath? Do epic levels count for charcter level damage dice?

[Ahwaric]

• Cores each add an additional +2 Damage with Two-Handed Weapons (along with what they currently do)

Does not work - only base +1 to damage is added (6 total, should be 18).
Also, Epic Power past life can't be selected during ETR. Unless it is just pushed off the selection box by the other 3 options (can't be scrolled, it is a problem in the other 3 spheres as well). Anyway, can't say if +2 to damage works.

• NEW: T1: (Multiselector with Boulder Toss): Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)

Can't be used - claims that I am using wrong weapon type.

• NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)

Works fine for me. Gives +10 with scimitar, +25 (total) if in Two Handed Fighting Style

All tests done on Dwarf Druid 17/Wizard 3 Epic 10 with second eldritch knight core which grants martial proficiency (and thus Dwarven Waraxe proficiency). Having all Two Handed Fighting feats (base, improved, greater & perfect).
Used Dwarven Waraxe (Hoartfrost) and Falchion (Legendary Tail of the Scorpion) for testing, the results are the same.

Also, please allow the effects to apply to dwarven waraxe, i.e. requiring two handed fighting style instead of simply two handed weapon (it works like this now - just keep it). The waraxe really needs it, same as all other weapons using this style. And it requires devotion to the style this way. Dwarven waraxe will still do less damage due to 1x multiplier of attribute bonus instead of 1.5x all true two-handed weapons get.
Also, please make tooltips consistent - some say that two handed style is required, and some that two handed weapon is required. Just switch to "Two Handed Style" everywhere.

[reywas]

Primal Avatar is still lacking for Season's Herald Druids. How about something that interacts with the seasons or the elemental forms, like a, well, Primal Avatar that for some duration that allows simultaneous use of both seasons, allowing both sets of spells to be used, as well as the crit/spellpower for all from the Seasons Herald line. Maybe paired with its own boost to the seasons or a nuke. This would be as an alternative T6 ultimate. Obviously can't be implemented now but would be good to make Primal Avatar better for casting druids.

Storm of Ice and Fire, Avatar of Seasons, Eye of the Storm, Primal Storm, Natural Disaster etc etc
-For the next 30 seconds, you count as both Fire and Water Elemental and both Summer and Winter Seasons for spell and enhancement purposes
-Your melee and ranged attacks do Fire, Electric, Acid, and Cold damage, scales with spell power
-Enemies nearby are caught in the storm around you, taking X Electric, Acid, Cold, and Fire damage every 2 seconds and must succeed on a Reflex save or be knocked down

[Shedrakzo]

Is Boulder's Might intentionally designed to exclude Bear Druids in an attempt to prevent Silvanus Wolves from using the attack? If so, would you be able to find a solution that allows bears to benefit, given their fighting style is THF/glancing blows?

[lyrecono]

Is Boulder's Might intentionally designed to exclude Bear Druids in an attempt to prevent Silvanus Wolves from using the attack? If so, would you be able to find a solution that allows bears to benefit, given their fighting style is THF/glancing blows?

I thought the bear fighting style was s&b, due to the stance requiring a shield, unless you maen a bastardsword or dwarven axe.
And as a bear (aka tank prc class) aren't those more inclined to use the tank ED divine crusader, or some kind of spellcasting ED?

[Ballrus]

Is Boulder's Might intentionally designed to exclude Bear Druids in an attempt to prevent Silvanus Wolves from using the attack? If so, would you be able to find a solution that allows bears to benefit, given their fighting style is THF/glancing blows?

Bears uses natural fight, not THF.
However, i agree that bears not need to be punished for overperforming wolf builds.

[Ballrus]

Works fine for me. Gives +10 with scimitar, +25 (total) if in Two Handed Fighting Style

Not working for me.
Tested with the new sickle (Leg Hook), and got zero mp.
With bastard swd (Soul Sorrow+Leg Best Defense, using THF feats), and with the new Maul, granting only 21 mp (6 mp is from thf Feats, so only 15 from ED).

[Steelstar]

Is Boulder's Might intentionally designed to exclude Bear Druids in an attempt to prevent Silvanus Wolves from using the attack? If so, would you be able to find a solution that allows bears to benefit, given their fighting style is THF/glancing blows?

It's specifically designed for characters in Two Handed Fighting style, which does not include Bears.

[Carpone]

Shiradi is now in a spot where it can compete with Legendary Dreadnought for Inquisitives. Thanks for providing a viable alternative to LD -- it's refreshing not being pigeonholed anymore.

[barecm]

From a ranged dps perspective, The Shiradi destiny can't complete with Fury, even if I do not use Unbrideled.
Half the cooldown of Hunt's End to 12 sec and maybe it will be more attractive.

I agree with Hunt's End cooldown. The original 30s was over the top long, now at 24 it seems a bit too long. I am in favor of 12s, but would be ok if it is lowered to 18s or 15s (half of original). The more I play on Lamannia, the more I realize just how long that really is in comparison to a 5s timer; even with 7 charge mechanic of adrenaline overload.

[Yamani]

I agree with Hunt's End cooldown. The original 30s was over the top long, now at 24 it seems a bit too long. I am in favor of 12s, but would be ok if it is lowered to 18s or 15s (half of original). The more I play on Lamannia, the more I realize just how long that really is in comparison to a 5s timer; even with 7 charge mechanic of adrenaline overload.

It's probably 24 seconds because of the cores giving 10 ranged power, while fury only gives 1 ranged power. So if the Trade off is 24 seconds and 60 ranged power, or 12 seconds and 24(using 4 ranged power/core). I'd go with the 24-60.

[barecm]

It's probably 24 seconds because of the cores giving 10 ranged power, while fury only gives 1 ranged power. So if the Trade off is 24 seconds and 60 ranged power, or 12 seconds and 24(using 4 ranged power/core). I'd go with the 24-60.

I understand, but that really isn't part of the comparison. Much like unbridled fury and +2 wisdom from Acute Instincts is also not part of it. 1 for 1, 24s still seems too long when testing vs what you can do with FoTW. Remember, the goal stated by the devs was to make Shiradi more appealing to ranged compared to fury. So, giving us something that is less appealing than fury shot is not winning folks over. That being said, I do like the other changes, it just doesn't seem enough when an overwhelming amount of the damage is burst and the burst damage is better in fury.

[0ldschool]

I understand, but that really isn't part of the comparison. Much like unbridled fury and +2 wisdom from Acute Instincts is also not part of it. 1 for 1, 24s still seems too long when testing vs what you can do with FoTW. Remember, the goal stated by the devs was to make Shiradi more appealing to ranged compared to fury. So, giving us something that is less appealing than fury shot is not winning folks over. That being said, I do like the other changes, it just doesn't seem enough when an overwhelming amount of the damage is burst and the burst damage is better in fury.

It's winning me over. There's 'make Shiradi more appealing to ranged', and then there's 'make Shiradi the only logical choice for any ranged character'. The ranged power granted between the two destinies is now massively on the side of Shiradi, overwhelmingly so. Do we really need Hunt's End to be the equivalent of fury shot as well? If you only want burst damage, then staying in Fury is a viable option. The goal stated by the devs was to make Shiradi more appealing and balance the destinies, not pigeonhole all ranged into one undeniably superior destiny. Sorry if I'm a little touchy on the subject, I'm waging my own personal battle in the Martial thread to attempt to keep SD in any way relevant for Mechanics. We are rogues too, after all.

As it stands now, I can't see a reason to even consider SD for anything other than twists, and that's sad.

BTW, I do love the Shiradi changes.