Multi-Patch/Update Preview: Primal Sphere

[Cocomajobo]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

• First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
• Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
  
  • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.
  
  
• Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)

Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Primal Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

Fury of the Wild
This is a Pretty Good destiny in its current state, but not enough Melees found reason to stick with this one vs. Dreadnought. We'd especially like Two Handed Fighters to hang out here, so we added some spice for them. Please note that "Two Handed Fighting Style" does not include Natural Weapon Style (aka Wolves, Bears, Trees).

• Cores each add an additional +2 Damage with Two-Handed Weapons (along with what they currently do)
• Fury made Placid is reduced to a 2% chance on no save. Healing scales with Melee Power. Gain +10% Doublestrike and +20 PRR and MRR while in this state.
• Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging. (Keeps its 5 minute cooldown).
• You can now use Unbridled Fury while under Antimagic.
• NEW: T1: (Multiselector with Boulder Toss): Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
• NEW: T5: Devastating Blow (+1 Critical Multiplier on 19-20 with Melee weapons) (1 Rank, 2AP)
• NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)
• There is a new Tier 6 Ability, Bloodbath, that doubles your Vorpal Threat Range while you are Two Handed Fighting

Primal Avatar
This is another Fairly Weird tree. There's things we didn't hit that I'd still like to (the complex spell that is Tsunami, in particular) but the primary thing we tried to do was to make it more accessible and less frustrating by eliminating the Spirit Charge mechanic. Before, it was very difficult to perform well in this tree if you couldn't min-max Spirit regeneration; that should no longer be a concern. Tree Form still isn't amazing, but that's unfortunately something that'll need to get addressed another time. (At the very least, you should get to use it more reliably and longer in most cases).

• Spirit Charges no longer exist in this tree.
• Primal Avatar gets +1 Evocation and Transmutation DC at cores 2, 4, and 6
• Strength of Spirit is now a Passive granting +20 Universal Spell Power. (The tree still grants +10 Melee and +4 Ranged Power per core).
• Primal Travel no longer costs Spirit, and now has a 90 second cooldown. It also now has a 20 second duration.
• Primal travel's jump back can no longer be cancelled
• Mighty Among Spirits no longer reduces Spirit Decay (as Spirit no longer exists), and instead grants +15 MRR (in addition to the +20 HP it currently gives).
• Eternal Return no longer costs Spirit.
• Walk With Spirits is no longer a toggle. On activation, you gain its effects for 30 seconds. It now has a 4 minute cooldown.
• Spirit Boon (both versions) no longer requires Spirit.
• Tsunami now uses a bigger + better detect and has FX similar to Cold Breath.
• Avatar of Nature no longer requires Spirit. Each of its Sizes now lasts for 6 seconds, except for the largest, which lasts for 12 and then shuts off the Form. It now has a 5 minute cooldown.
• Summer Smoke, Supple as Spring, and Chill of Winter are now applied more efficiently, should cause fewer performance issues, and should no longer get stuck on players - Like Bard Auras, the effects are re-applied every few seconds and expire after some time. These now only apply to party members (sorry, this was important for performance reasons).

Shiradi Champion
This tree is alright for casters and not great for ranged characters in its current state. A lot of the Bow users are pulled over by Fury right now, so we gave it a bit of that power to make Shiradi a more viable choice for them. We don't want to take Fury away from bow-users entirely (or Shiradi away from casters), just to make Shiradi a viable choice for ranged weapon characters.

• The first five cores (replacing their existing attack/damage bonuses) add +1 to hit and damage with ranged weapons.
• Cores of Shiradi Champion now each grant +10 Ranged Power (was +4)
• Favorable Winds and Fey Power scale with 200% Ranged Power.
• Stay Frosty's cold damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Stay Frosty now passively provides its +3/+6 Spot and Listen
• Stay Good's light damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Rainbow's random damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Added clarifying language to Double Rainbow to indicate that its effects may scale with Melee, Ranged, or Spell Power depending on the origin of effects it finds.
• Whirling Wrists also grants +2/4/6% Doubleshot.
• Wild Shots scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Rain of Arrows no longer requires charging.
• Rain of Arrows now has a 3-minute cooldown.
• Rain of Arrows' damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Rain of Arrows now costs 1AP.
• Rain of Arrows' tooltip now properly reflects its 20% of application per second (previously read 10%).
• Tea With the Queen now costs 1AP.
• Track also debuffs fortification by 2% per stack
• Stand & Deliver now alson grants +1mult on 19-20 with Ranged weapons
• In The Weeds adds +3 PRR and +3 MRR per stack.
• NEW: Horizon Shot (T6): Your next shot with a Ranged or Thrown weapon has +400% damage and +16 to its Critical Threat Range. 30 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
  
• "Horizon Shot" in Shiradi is now "Hunt's End"
• Hunt's End now has a 24-sec cooldown

[Eldried]

The Cores in Shiradi Champion are supposed to give +1 to attack and damage to Ranged weapons each, but they don't.

[lyrecono]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

• First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
• Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
  
  • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.
  
  
• Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)

Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Primal Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

Fury of the Wild
This is a Pretty Good destiny in its current state, but not enough Melees found reason to stick with this one vs. Dreadnought. We'd especially like Two Handed Fighters to hang out here, so we added some spice for them. Please note that "Two Handed Fighting Style" does not include Natural Weapon Style (aka Wolves, Bears, Trees).

• Cores each add an additional +2 Damage with Two-Handed Weapons (along with what they currently do)
• Fury made Placid is reduced to a 2% chance on no save. Healing scales with Melee Power. Gain +10% Doublestrike and +20 PRR and MRR while in this state.
• Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging. (Keeps its 5 minute cooldown).
• You can now use Unbridled Fury while under Antimagic.
• NEW: T1: (Multiselector with Boulder Toss): Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
• NEW: T5: Devastating Blow (+1 Critical Multiplier on 19-20 with Melee weapons) (1 Rank, 2AP)
• NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)

[B]
[/LIST]

the issue was that 2hf didn't recharge these abilities fast enough(currently on life servers), glancing blows damage was garbage especially in reaper, double strike is broken on a lot of cleave attacks, etc. Both cordovan and steel mentioned they were discussing it, what happened?
With out a fix for these issues, this ED is use impaired to 2hf toons.

so is this fixed? will it be fixed with a given date? or can we be compensated with a +1 heart?
this way, we can tr out of the broken mess left behind by 2hf and tr into a silvanus wolf barb build (in LD because fury abilities don't work in wolf form), it's the only really viable 2hf build we have available atm?

[Steelstar]

oth cordovan and steel mentioned they were discussing it, what happened?

I believe we added a new ability to Fury that seems to have missed the notes; we'll work on getting that in there. It should be on Lamannia.

[Vorachtin]

The only thing i think you should add to Primal Avatar, in addition to what you've done, is add elemental form tihe the abilities up the left side column of abilities.

The seasons herald gives you bonus to Shillelagh for some neat druid caster/healer whack em with a staff combos, new swords into plow shares adds to that as well. However the cool melee aspects of primal avatar are precluded from being in elemental form, kind of a shame. Not overpowering , balanced attacks trip + symmetric strikes 5% dmg and extra crit multi. If the concern is water/fire elemental sorcs ek becoming OP, could add more i.e. elemental form while using a staff or idk you guys are smarter than me on that.

[lyrecono]

I believe we added a new ability to Fury that seems to have missed the notes; we'll work on getting that in there. It should be on Lamannia.

did you mean this:
There is a new Tier 6 Ability, Bloodbath, that doubles your Vorpal Threat Range while you are Two Handed Fighting?

that was not what we were talking about on both the primal and martial threads.

Steel, please go back and look at all the concerns, this is absolutely not it

[Arkat]

did you mean this:
There is a new Tier 6 Ability, Bloodbath, that doubles your Vorpal Threat Range while you are Two Handed Fighting?

That has made it into Lamannia.

[lyrecono]

That has made it into Lamannia.

yeah, i saw, it wasn't what we're talking about.

this is so incredibly frustrating, did he not understand what the issue is with 2hf and that he said they were looking into it or is this the same selective reading we recently had with the whole non scaling class abilities thread?

[Arkat]

yeah, i saw, it wasn't what we're talking about.

this is so incredibly frustrating, did he not understand what the issue is with 2hf and that he said they were looking into it or is this the same selective reading we recently had with the whole non scaling class abilities thread?

What were you talking about then? I am unfamiliar with the proposed solution/s to which you seem to be referring.

[HastyPudding]

Does this mean Tsunami no longer blows away ice storm, earthquake, or wall of fire? That's a good change. The destiny needs more work, overall, though. +3 dc's really doesn't do much for a spellcasting druid. This tree needs buffs for elemental druids, perhaps in the left side along with the TWF/wildshape enhancements.

[0ldschool]

[*]Cores of Shiradi Champion now each grant +10 Ranged Power (was +4)

Wow! Horizon shot, now this! I'm not saying it is a bad addition, I actually like it (anything to move players away from LD). But my concerns with Shadowdancer, especially for ranged rogues, were not really addressed other than a modest +15 boost to RP/MP and +2 SA die with Dark Imbuement. I was already pretty sure I couldn't justify staying in Shadowdancer, but a difference of 36 RP is one final massive nail in that coffin. Goodbye forever, Shadowdancer. On the plus side, hello Shiradi!

EDIT: I just spent an hour playing my Mechanic on Lam with the new EDs. SD is not in very good shape, especially for ranged toons. Shrouding Shot/Strike is pointless now, stacks of Improved destruction are not worthwhile with only one per 6 seconds. 3 AP for one +3W shot that does nothing else, no thanks. Yet at least one AP there is required for all of the goodies above it. Shadow Lance was good for a blind here and there, easy twist though. To be fair, I did not try the new Dark Imbuement yet. It's just not much improved IMHO, compared to what Shiradi got.

Shiradi, on the other hand, is alive and very well. +60 RP from cores (vs +24 in SD), +6% doubleshot from Whirling Wrists, the +1 crit mult on 19-20, up to +9 PRR/MRR from In the Weeds, all of the 'scales with 200% Ranged Power' damage improvements, and of course, Hunt's End, a.k.a. Shiradi Adrenaline. My damage output was up considerably, not even considering the monster Hunt's End crits every 24 seconds (text still says 30 sec cooldown BTW). My mechanic will run in Shiradi permanently now, and it's a very easy choice.

[Grailhawk]

Wow! Horizon shot, now this! I'm not saying it is a bad addition, I actually like it (anything to move players away from LD). But my concerns with Shadowdancer, especially for ranged rogues, were not really addressed other than a modest +15 boost to RP/MP and +2 SA die with Dark Imbuement. I was already pretty sure I couldn't justify staying in Shadowdancer, but a difference of 36 RP is one final massive nail in that coffin. Goodbye forever, Shadowdancer. On the plus side, hello Shiradi!

I havent had too much time to text it but the text for Dark Imbuement said it was now 9d6 Unholy + 2d6 SA so it did get a bigger buff I think just need to test it.

[Cantor]

yeah, i saw, it wasn't what we're talking about.

this is so incredibly frustrating, did he not understand what the issue is with 2hf and that he said they were looking into it or is this the same selective reading we recently had with the whole non scaling class abilities thread?

Vorpal threat should help regen adrenaline. Is that not part of what you mean?

[lyrecono]

What were you talking about then? I am unfamiliar with the proposed solution/s to which you seem to be referring.

I just wanted to say that we are aware of your concern about the number of attacks over time with Two-Handed fighting in particular, and are looking into some possible improvements. It's a bit early to provider further detail, however.

First:
The reason why people don't use Fury on a melee and are stuck with a broken ED like Legendary dreadnought is because Adreneline doesn't replenish fast enough with 2 handers.
(Lay waste's knockdown dc doesn't benefit from items or class abilities, Balance DC (10 + Character Level + Strength Modifier), thanks to poor balancing, it becommes useless mid epics)
For an ED with a great axe icon, it works 10 times better with ranged combat, due to their ridicules attack speed and working doubleshot (wich is still broken with 2hf, still no doublestrike), they regain adrenaline much faster.
Add in that glancing blows, well, quite frankly, blow in reaper, the Unbridled Fury Epic Moment is mostly wasted.

as for the changes:
+2 damage with 2 handed weapons, does that include dwarven axes and bastard swords?
Gain +10% Doublestrike, what for? it doesn't work with 2 handers, especially since you have done the effort to put in extra damage for 2handers in the cores.

it's a nice idea but with 2hf being bugged up the @rse, these changes won't do didly squat. it will still be mostly used by archers.
in order to fix this, glancing blows should be allowed to crit, thus get vorpals and thus regain adrenaline charges
Also, double strike, if you'd fix that, more vorpals might come through and help recharge adrenaline

and more important, don't allow ranged attacks to recharge adrenaline, the ED has a greataxe for an icon for crying out loud!

i have to agree with the 2hf comments, doublestrike doesn't work and even with glancing blows, you never regain charges fast enough to get close to LD, untill it is fixed, this ED is useless for 2hf melees

Fury could also use 1 or 2 points of extra dr 1/- (the barb one)

Currently considering adding something to the tree where your Vorpal range is doubled with Two Handers; this would mean you Vorpal twice as often, and recover charges significantly more quickly than before. We can continue tweaking from there.

is 2hf ever going to be fixed though?

(glancing blows don't get doublestrike or crits, neither does 2hf/cleaves)

because if you do fix it, are you then nerfing the vorpal range?
or does this mean that 2hf will never be fixed?

I'll point you to this post from Cordovan earlier today:

Hi,
true it is a good ED Tree, one thing to consider tho:

Blitz is quite easy to keep active and maxed with Monks, SWF or TWF Style Builds while Two Handed Fighting Style Builds sometimes even loose it while standing in the middle of a big mob and hitting them like crazy. That is cuz the Two Handed Style Builds do much fewer attacks per time than those Monk/SWF/TWF but the chance to gain a stack is also 10%. That is very frustrating if you do hit mob after mob and loose your Blitz anyway, while other builds can keep it active quite easily in the same situation. Maybe you can change the chance to gain a stack of Blitz for Two Handed Fighting to 20% or change something else to make it somewhat even for fast attacking and low damage builds compared to the slow attacking and high damage Two Handed Fighting Builds.

tyvm

I just wanted to say that we are aware of your concern about the number of attacks over time with Two-Handed fighting in particular, and are looking into some possible improvements. It's a bit early to provider further detail, however.

You'll have to forgive me, it's 39 degrees celcius and i'm the only one in my department that hasn't called in "sick"* today. Picking up the slack of my sick coworkers during a 12 hour shift, so at least half of them can get better. (On the beach apperently, according to their facebook.)
So i'm working of my cell phone in break time, meaning copy pasting and editing are a bit hard.

But these were the posts involved.

[MrChipinator]

I'm aware you've said there are more comprehensive changes you guys wish you could've implemented so whether this is the first time this has been brought up or it might be useful for future changes here goes:

For Fury of the Wild, in general the fact that all of the core abilities are just "now this same thing from earlier but more" is a little boring. I get Adrenaline can be potent when combined with another attack but it feels kinda cheap that you just get Brawn>Brawn and Adrenaline>Adrenaline>Adrenaline>Adrenaline.

Give bonuses to Glancing Blows in here (easily the worst fighting style by miles), something like

Innate Abilities: You gain +6 Melee Power and +3% to glancing blow damage for each core in this destiny.

Core I: Adrenaline (keep it the same)
Core II: Brawl: You gain +50 HP and +10% to hit while true raging (since Precision is so powerful but you can't use it with Rage, a critical barbarian feat)
Core III: Furor: You just keep getting angrier, each time you take damage you gain +1 to hit and to damage stacking up to <blank> times. Removed after 5 seconds
Core IV: Brawn: You gain +150 HP (I think it needs a little more beef to the cake but w/e) and + 5% Temp HP (of your total) occasionally after being struck
Core V: Vehement: Can't get much angrier than this, but you'll try; you gain additional charges of rage (barb/druid) and an additional +4 to strength while true raging
Core VI: Adrenaline II: Upgrade Adrenaline the rest of the way here, skipping the unnecessarily mediocre boosts along the way

Tunnel Vision: +more to hit while raged instead of the die since it would hit 0's in Reaper anyway
Fast Healing: Could this healing not be penalized by Reaper? Or moved up in the tree if so? my 2 cents on that one

Insult + Injury are...eh...at best, but I like the idea
Injury: Each time you are hit the enemy becomes shaken
Insult: Shaken enemies stack vulnerability each time a Fury of the Wild hits them (do the cooldown thingy you guys already do for vuln)

Wild + Malicious Weapons should just be combined to reduce AP strain for what will be post-update; necessary items.

Ward against Weird could be +MRR on magical damage, or maybe gain % reduction on all elemental damage, if you have Occult Slayer?

Gird against Demons is really out of place for a Barbarian, seems more like a divine feature, what about:
Otherworldly Resilience: Your time fighting against every manner of monster has granted you insight into their strengths. While raging you gain +30 Healing Amplification and you recover from negative levels quite rapidly (eat your heart out beholders)

Finally, with the new Tier 6, and the new Tier 5's, were you planning on preventing us from being able to take everything?
As of right now; Fury Eternal is totally necessary to the viability of the tree, and Bloodbath synergizes well with this but Strong Swings will as well with THF but then again you're putting Devastating Blows at T5 at the same time.

Perhaps the best option would be to put one of these as a core feature and eschew one of my earlier suggestions in order to reduce the AP strain while also giving some more variety to builds. If I had to pick one I'd put the Vorpal while THF at the Core VI, just make adrenaline as good as it is earlier on since most people already have the tree unlocked, the cores essentially do nothing after you've unlocked Adrenaline Overload.

You could also put additional charges of Adrenaline throughout the tree if you wanted to fill other spaces or even incentivize certain items.

[whoolsey]

You'll have to forgive me, it's 39 degrees celcius and i'm the only one in my department that hasn't called in "sick"* today. Picking up the slack of my sick coworkers during a 12 hour shift, so at least half of them can get better. (On the beach apperently, according to their facebook.)
So i'm working of my cell phone in break time, meaning copy pasting and editing are a bit hard.

But these were the posts involved.

I remember tfhose, didn't they follow up on those?

I'm aware you've said there are more comprehensive changes you guys wish you could've implemented so whether this is the first time this has been brought up or it might be useful for future changes here goes:

For Fury of the Wild, in general the fact that all of the core abilities are just "now this same thing from earlier but more" is a little boring. I get Adrenaline can be potent when combined with another attack but it feels kinda cheap that you just get Brawn>Brawn and Adrenaline>Adrenaline>Adrenaline>Adrenaline.

Give bonuses to Glancing Blows in here (easily the worst fighting style by miles), something like

Innate Abilities: You gain +6 Melee Power and +3% to glancing blow damage for each core in this destiny.

Core I: Adrenaline (keep it the same)
Core II: Brawl: You gain +50 HP and +10% to hit while true raging (since Precision is so powerful but you can't use it with Rage, a critical barbarian feat)
Core III: Furor: You just keep getting angrier, each time you take damage you gain +1 to hit and to damage stacking up to <blank> times. Removed after 5 seconds
Core IV: Brawn: You gain +150 HP (I think it needs a little more beef to the cake but w/e) and + 5% Temp HP (of your total) occasionally after being struck
Core V: Vehement: Can't get much angrier than this, but you'll try; you gain additional charges of rage (barb/druid) and an additional +4 to strength while true raging
Core VI: Adrenaline II: Upgrade Adrenaline the rest of the way here, skipping the unnecessarily mediocre boosts along the way

Tunnel Vision: +more to hit while raged instead of the die since it would hit 0's in Reaper anyway
Fast Healing: Could this healing not be penalized by Reaper? Or moved up in the tree if so? my 2 cents on that one

Insult + Injury are...eh...at best, but I like the idea
Injury: Each time you are hit the enemy becomes shaken
Insult: Shaken enemies stack vulnerability each time a Fury of the Wild hits them (do the cooldown thingy you guys already do for vuln)

Wild + Malicious Weapons should just be combined to reduce AP strain for what will be post-update; necessary items.

Ward against Weird could be +MRR on magical damage, or maybe gain % reduction on all elemental damage, if you have Occult Slayer?

Gird against Demons is really out of place for a Barbarian, seems more like a divine feature, what about:
Otherworldly Resilience: Your time fighting against every manner of monster has granted you insight into their strengths. While raging you gain +30 Healing Amplification and you recover from negative levels quite rapidly (eat your heart out beholders)

Finally, with the new Tier 6, and the new Tier 5's, were you planning on preventing us from being able to take everything?
As of right now; Fury Eternal is totally necessary to the viability of the tree, and Bloodbath synergizes well with this but Strong Swings will as well with THF but then again you're putting Devastating Blows at T5 at the same time.

Perhaps the best option would be to put one of these as a core feature and eschew one of my earlier suggestions in order to reduce the AP strain while also giving some more variety to builds. If I had to pick one I'd put the Vorpal while THF at the Core VI, just make adrenaline as good as it is earlier on since most people already have the tree unlocked, the cores essentially do nothing after you've unlocked Adrenaline Overload.

You could also put additional charges of Adrenaline throughout the tree if you wanted to fill other spaces or even incentivize certain items.

+1, i just wonder if addi g a small hp % per 2hf feat wouldn' be better then flat hp

[ned_ellis]

The only thing i think you should add to Primal Avatar, in addition to what you've done, is add elemental form tihe the abilities up the left side column of abilities.

The seasons herald gives you bonus to Shillelagh for some neat druid caster/healer whack em with a staff combos, new swords into plow shares adds to that as well. However the cool melee aspects of primal avatar are precluded from being in elemental form, kind of a shame. Not overpowering , balanced attacks trip + symmetric strikes 5% dmg and extra crit multi. If the concern is water/fire elemental sorcs ek becoming OP, could add more i.e. elemental form while using a staff or idk you guys are smarter than me on that.

I agree with the substance of Vorachtin's point - there is nothing specific to elemental forms in these trees apart from a small blob of spell power. Druid casters don't have many meaningful choices to make (odd considering how 'swiss-army knife' they are in their casting!) so they kind of have to sit in Primal sphere : Fury is a no-go, Shiradi (new version will probably drag my ranger away from Fury) and Primal are a mix that have no specific advantages for elementals. The only real choice is Shiradi for the dps procs that...have no specific characteristic for primal casters!
Adding something in this regard could even open up Sorcerer elementals in primal since the casting level losses hit a savant less and flexibility is good!
Various ideas :
- spell power per elemental form
- spell crit per elemental form
- augmented elemental resistances per form
- give elemental dmg (scale with spell power) to enemy when attacked (like fire/cold shield)
- give an elemental attack clicky (like Whelm for Ice elementals in 5ed.) - like what the savant T5's should be
- 'what more imaginative people can come up with' etc.

[Steelstar]

yeah, i saw, it wasn't what we're talking about.

this is so incredibly frustrating, did he not understand what the issue is with 2hf and that he said they were looking into it or is this the same selective reading we recently had with the whole non scaling class abilities thread?

We have further plans for THF in general that are not part of this already-huge Update.

[Ballrus]

Strong Swings (tier5) > applying only 15 melee power in thf.

[Steelstar]

Strong Swings (tier5) > applying only 15 melee power in thf.

As in, "When I take the ability with nothing equipped, it grants nothing, and then when I equip a two-handed weapon it goes up by 15?" (If so, it's probably missing the flat +10 it should always have)