First Look: U43 Pale Master

[Grace_ana]

Lots of great stuff here (yay metamagics!), and it's clear you guys really put a lot of thought into this. I like the idea of developing a shroud to do what you need it to do. A couple things:

1. I'm not sure how to feel about the positive energy healing. On the one hand, it will certainly make things easier for parties with undead in them. On the other hand, it really doesn't fit. On the whole, I'd really rather see harm scrolls available at the vendors to fix the party healing issue than change to undead healing from positive energy.

2. I noticed that PRR was lost as an option in the revamp. I would suggest changing Deathly Tough to +15 PRR instead of +15 HP. Compared to the other options, 15 HP is pretty much nothing, and the PRR option will be welcomed.

3. I would also like to see additional + to MRR cap in the tree besides T5 Lich form, perhaps in the capstone? The low MRR cap for casters is a killer and keeps them from wanting to wear robes. Bumping the MRR cap to at or near light armor in the capstone would push a lot of people to stay pure and take that. It's not like there are pure wizards running around with evasion. (Side note: Instead of this, you can just maybe change the severe MRR caps?)

4. Necro focus in T5 is still behind archmage, since the archmage tree allows for a total of +2 DCs instead of just +1. Several other caster-focused trees only cost 2 or 3 AP for +2 DCs. Bringing PM into line with that would be nice.

[losian2]

You know, I get the upset about the healing thing but it just kinda makes sense in the context of DDO - you either have a character that must be able to 100% self-heal through any content, you give all healers the ability to heal them, or you find a middle ground.

Mayhaps instead of just an arbitrary thing it could be similar to repair as someone else suggested? Some kind of "twist positive healing towards you into negative" buff thing so it's a bit more thematic but effectively the same, halved effectiveness and all?

I mean, I do get the unrest, but it's DDO. You can't really build a full skill-based character, everyone pretty much does combat. Abstractions are necessary at times because, ultimately, DDO is an abstract version of tabletop. It tries to be close as possible, but at a certain point there's a bigger picture, a different game, being balanced for.

[Tuxedoman96]

Hello, everyone!

In addition to the Epic Destiny Pass and the New Epic Past Lives that we've already given a sneak peek of, Update 43 will also feature a revamp of the Pale Master enhancement tree.

Some of our goals for this pass included:

• Make Pale Master less about progressing through increasingly-powerful Undead Forms and more about picking a single (or multiple) forms to specialize in
• Give each Undead Form a unique playstyle
• Allow players to specialize without enforcing each form completely into a specific role
• Help parties effectively interact with Undead players
• Provide an actual way for Pale Masters to combat undead
• Help address concerns of survivability

To call out that last point (& so this doesn't get lost in the shuffle below): One of the big changes here is that Undead players will now be healed 50% by Positive Energy spells. While it doesn't 100% fit Undead lore, we believe the positive benefit to survivability and party dynamics is worth the change.

With that said, here's the tree!





CORES:

• Core 1: Dark Reaping: For each Core Ability in this tree you get +3 Negative Spell Power and +3 Negative Healing Amplification.
• Core 2: Pale Shroud: Multiselector: All forms grant 100% critical hit resistance and allow you to be healed by Negative Energy. You take 50% healing from Positive, and double damage from Light. You are considered undead.
  
  • Shroud of the Zombie: While in this form, +4 Constitution, +20% damage with attacks but you attack 20% slower than normal. You gain +3 PRR, +3 MRR.
  • Shroud of the Vampire: While in this form, +2 Charisma, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom. +3 Perform skill, and your melee and unarmed attacks have a chance to heal you for 1d3 Negative Energy damage per Wizard Level.
  • Shroud of the Wraith: While in this form, +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence. Enemy attacks have a 10% chance to miss you due to incorporeality, +1 Sneak Attack Dice, and you gain Feather Falling.
  • Shroud of the Lich: While in this form, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +10 Negative Amplification, +5 Negative Spell Power, and +15 Magical Resistance Rating.
  
  
• Core 3: Multiselector: Improved Shrouding: Pick one of the following abilities that applies while in a Pale Shroud: (Passive: While in a Shroud, you can breathe underwater. +1 Spell Penetration.)
  
  • Deathly Tough: 15 Maximum Hit Points
  • Deathly Resistance: 15 Magical Resistance Rating, +2 to all Saves
  • Inflict Weariness: Your attacks inflict 2-9 points of Negative Energy damage to a living target. This scales with 100% Spell Power. Your Vorpal Melee Hits cause Energy Drain, inflicting 1 Negative Level on victims.
  • Haunting in the Dark: +2 Assassinate DCs.
  • Ghost in the Wind: +15% Incorporeal Miss Chance. (If you are in Wraith Form, this increases your total to 25%).
  • Deathly Power: +10 to Negative Energy Spellpower.
  • +2 Necromancy DC
  • +2 Enchantment DC
  • Undead Chill: +15% bonus to Cold Absorption. You no longer take extra damage from Light.
  • Undead Shock: +15% bonus to Electric Absorption. You no longer take extra damage from Light.
  • Unhallowed Touch: You gain Ghost Touch on all attacks, +5 Hide and Move Silently
  
  
• Core 4: Pick an ability you didn't pick in Core 3. (Passive: +1 Spell Penetration.)
• Core 5: Pick an ability you didn't pick in Core 3+4 (Passive: +50 Maximum Spell Points, +1 Spell Penetration.)
• Core 6: Undead Overlord:
  
  • Active: Greater Death Aura SLA. (Envelops the caster in a sickly aura of negative energy. Living enemies stepping inside the aura take 3 to 12 negative energy damage plus 1 additional point per caster level every two seconds as long as they remain within it. A successful Fortitude save reduces the damage by half. Undead are instead healed by the aura. This aura can affect up to one target per caster level. D&D Dice: Deals 3d4 negative energy damage plus 1 per caster level every two seconds.) (This can be cast simultaneously with Lesser Death Aura and Death Aura).
  • Passive: You gain +4 Intelligence and Deathblock. +10 Negative Healing Amplification. +2 Spell Penetration.

TIER 1:

• Necrotic Touch: 6/4/2 SP, 12/8/4 seconds. Accepts Metamagics. Scales with full Spell Power. For 12 seconds after casting this, your Skeletal Knight reduces its incoming damage by 50%.
• Negative Energy Conduit (relocated)
• Spell Crit: Negative I (unchanged)
• Skeletal Knight: (Cooldown on re-summoning changed to 20 seconds. No summon cost.)
• Deathless Vigor (relocated but otherwise unchanged)

TIER 2:

• (this space intentionally left blank)
• Cloak of Night: While blocking in a Pale Shroud, you gain invisibility, displacement, and do not take extra damage from Light. Passive: +5 Hide.
• Spell Crit: Negative II (unchanged)
• Corpsecrafter: Your Skeletal Knight gain a +2/4/6 Profane Bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. Rank 3: You gain +1 Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.
• Efficient Metamagic (unchanged)

TIER 3:

• Necrotic bolt: 10/8/5 SP, 15/10/5 seconds. Accepts Metamagics. Scales with full Spell Power.
• Negative Energy Adept: +10/20/30 Negative Amp
• Spell Crit: Negative III (unchanged)
• Eternal Furor: You (while in a Shroud) AND your Skeleton Knight gain +5/10/15 Profane Bonus to PRR. Your Skeletal Knight gains +3/6/10 to hit and damage, +2/4/6 Profane Bonus to AC, and and its attacks bypass 10%/20%/50% of enemy Fortification.
• CON/INT (unchanged)

TIER 4:

• (this space intentionally left blank)
• Unholy Avatar: While in an Undead Shroud, your Negative Energy attacks leave a lingering debuff on undead foes that leaves them vulnerable to Negative Energy if they were immune.
• Spell Crit: Negative IV (unchanged)
• Deathly Versatile: Pick a second Shroud Toggle. You may only have one active at a time.
• CON/INT (unchanged)

TIER 5:

• Necrotic Blast: 20/15/10 SP, 18/12/6 seconds. Accepts Metamagics. Scales with full Spell Power.
• Animate Ally: 18 second cooldown. Target no longer takes damage over time. Zombie Form is removed on Rest or Death.
• Necromantic Focus (unchanged)
• Dark Discorporation: Multiselector:
  
  • Dark Discorporation SLA (as per the Warlock spell... Because Pale Masters should get to turn into bats and float away).
  • Reactive Discorporation: When your HP drops below 50%, gain Dark Discorporation for 20 seconds. This effect still ends if you attack. This effect may only trigger once every 60 seconds.
  
  
• Ascendant Shroud: You get bonuses based on your current form:
  
  • Zombie: While in Zombie Form, +20 Melee Power & 10 PRR. +20% Racial Bonus to maximum Hit Points.
  • Vampire: While in Vampire Form, +1 Enchantment DC. Your melee attacks have a chance to dominate your adversaries. On Hit: Target has a chance to be Paralyzed (Will save vs. DC 20 + INT Mod + Enchantment Spell Bonuses). On Save: -10% Movement and Attack Speed.
  • Wraith: While in Wraith Form, +10% Incorporeality (bringing your total to 20%, or 35% if you have Ghost in the Wind), +2 Sneak Attack Dice. +3% Dodge & Dodge Cap. +10 to Hide and Move Silently.
  • Lich: While in Lich Form, +15 to MRR cap, +5 Negative Spell Power, +10 Cold and Electric Resistance.

NEW SPELL:
Finally, there will be a new Level 9 Sorcerer/Wizard Spell - "Rend the Soul":
"Twists unholy energies around a single foe, causing it significant negative damage over time. Deals 4 to 10 damage every two seconds for 10 seconds for every caster level up to 20. A successful fortitude save reduces damage by half. D&D Dice: Deals 1d6+4 negative damage per caster level, max 20d6+80, every 2 seconds for 10 seconds."

I like most of the changes introduced in your quote, but I highlighted some points of concern in red. I'll go through each in the order that they appear in the quote:

• I understand that adding positive healing to undead will help with party tactics, etc. However, I think that more steps should be taken to balance this out, both in consideration for the buffs that are given by the shrouds and for the sake of staying closer to the source. My suggestion would be to either not have the incoming positive heal scale with healing amp (or throw it in one of the later cores) or have the positive healing start off at a lower percentage (like 20% or 30%) and improve it with a different enhancement up to 50%. The idea is that it takes a concerted effort on your part and the healer's to heal you more effectively with positive energy.
  
• For the shrouds, I have a couple questions. First, for the vampire, what is the % chance for that healing to proc? I'd hope it'd be decent since the idea is sucking the blood of your enemies and whatnot. The second question is for the wraith form. I assume from the description that the wraith form is losing its inherent incorporeality bypass/ghost touch, correct?
  
• My third concern are the Necrotic SLAs. I think that the SLAs should still use hitpoints as a casting cost. It offered a different style of casting (much like how the warlocks have depravity for their Tainted Scholar SLAs), which offered a greater diversity of build options. Conceptually, it was like you were projecting your life force at your enemy, hence the HP cost. If the concern is the increase in damage (from the metas), then I'd suggest making them a multi-selector that uses either SP or HP, keeping the HP version pretty much as it is now, but allowing for the quicken metamagic (honestly I never understood why quicken couldn't be used on it in the first place). Another suggestion (if the HP cost is still too low for output), would be to make the casting cost be based on %max_hp, so that it wouldn't amount to essentially free damage.
  
• In a similar vein to the the above point, I think there should still be a casting cost to the summoning of the skelly. I mean, it's hardly anything in the first place functionally. But conceptually, you're using dark magic and necromantic rituals to raise a creature from the ground in complete and eternal servitude to you. I assume that the one skelly per rest restriction would still apply regardless, yes?

All in all, I like the changes. Making the shrouding less centered on one or two forms opens up more viable options for players, which is always a plus. Any guidance on the concerns above would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Elsheran]

Will the Skeleton Knight act like other pets, the Druid and Artificer Dogs, and be equip-able and/or have a view-able sheet? Being able to throw that Looted Full Plate on my Skeleton would be slick and increase the value of some of the odd-ball armors and random-gens. If the answer is no, would that be only for now pending a pet pass, or solidly no for some design/technical reason?

[Franghasea]

To call out that last point (& so this doesn't get lost in the shuffle below): One of the big changes here is that Undead players will now be healed 50% by Positive Energy spells. While it doesn't 100% fit Undead lore, we believe the positive benefit to survivibility and party dynamics is worth the change.

Hiyas! Rather than the above that doesn't seem entirely right as stated, is it feasible to consider/do the following instead?

1) Place Harm scrolls back in the normal Scroll Vendors of the appropriate level, instead of just the Mysterious Remnant vendor? This would place Pale Masters on the same level as as anyone else in the party that does not have innate healing for the heroic levels in terms of wands and scrolls. If party members or the PM have invested in UMD they can be healed outside of negative auras.

2) Permit Necrotic Ray to be target-able on Undead PMs to be able to heal them from afar.

3) Create an (anti) mirror of Rejuvenation Cocoon ("Enveloping Expiration"?) and place it in the Magister Epic Destiny as a twist available for those traveling with PMs during Epic levels. If it needs to scale with x00% Spell power, so be it.

4) If this still is not enough to avoid the 50% Positive Energy Healing being added to the game, perhaps adding to the 5th Core or Tier 5 the ability to grant Temp HP on a successful insta-kill or neg spell cast (not aura?) equal to x% Wizard Levels x INT modifier?

Thanx for taking the time to read this.

Franghasea

[Krumm]

• Ascendant Shroud: You get bonuses based on your current form:
  
  • Vampire: While in Vampire Form, +1 Enchantment DC. Your melee attacks have a chance to dominate your adversaries. On Hit: Target has a chance to be Paralyzed (Will save vs. DC 20 + INT Mod + Enchantment Spell Bonuses). On Save: -10% Movement and Attack Speed.

Just to clarify, "chance to paralyze on hit" works on melee only or will it work with ranged attacks?

Thanks in advance.

[janave]

I'm actually pretty disappointed in the player base that there has been virtually no push back on this from current Pale Masters. We shouldn't want this, ugh.

Hey Varr,

I noted that as a gratis the poz healing is probably too much actually. I would not mind if its like Warfoged Repair Systems, "you give some you get some." If Pale masters have to trade negative hamp for poz vulnerability it would be fair enough, wonder who would choose that outside raiding setups tho.

I could see a couple of implementations:

I) Negative Energy Conduit (Select one of )
a) 10/20/30 negative healing amp
b) 10/20/40% positive healing vulnerability

II) Mixin enhancement: with Deathless Vigor - perfect label for this !?
10/20/30 hitpoints and 10/20/40% pozzz energy vulnerability

III) New enhancement (with tradeoffs)
20/30/50% pozz vulnerability
negative negative hamp 10/20/30 (dont apply math knowledge :P )



I think these are fair, in that it costs some points, -so no gratis, allows more building choice much like forged characters who can benefit from either more self repair or more incoming heals from others. Would maybe consider thematically to add 10-20% base for Zombie form, coz they arent all bone and floaty clothes.. something thematic to be healed on them.

with Varr, the poz healing is the single most important change -even tho the others are big too!

[Krell]

I like the changes. I think it will open up a lot of play style opportunities. One request, please remove the facing requirement for harm

[cru121]

Ghost in the Wind: +15% Incorporeal Miss Chance. (If you are in Wraith Form, this increases your total to 25%).

How does this stack with other sources of incorporeality? Ghostly items and similar...

Shroud of the Zombie: While in this form, +4 Constitution, +20% damage with attacks but you attack 20% slower than normal. You gain +3 PRR, +3 MRR.

Benefits are nice, particularly with T5, but is it even worth attempting to melee as a Zombie?

[janave]

Shroud of the Zombie: While in this form, +4 Constitution, +20% damage with attacks but you attack 20% slower than normal. You gain +3 PRR, +3 MRR.

Benefits are nice, particularly with T5, but is it even worth attempting to melee as a Zombie?

Not specified for melee (yet). Next Adrenalin shooter build ?

[Rull]

This looks good, no unnecessary dependencies, interesting forms. Nice.

[blerkington]

Not a huge fan of adding positive healing for PMs, even as someone who runs one and would benefit greatly from it. The game already allows very strong self healing to PMs well into mid reaper difficulties and DC builds already have excellent indirect protection from damage via instakills and CC abilities.

I think the only PM build that has any reasonable claim on being allowed to benefit from positive energy healing is a melee build that has had to make heavy sacrifices to their DCs. A 50% penalty to healing is actually very small especially at cap where overhealing is so commonplace. It's also something that could conceivably be offset with positive healing amp gear, past lives, etc.

To me this just feels like another nail in the coffin of tactical and slower paced play, extending the zergfest towards the highest difficulty levels for nearly everyone. It just feeds into the quick and careless playstyle that characterises so much of DDO. It's also clearly aimed at facilitating play in reaper difficulty, which I believe the developers said they were not going to do.

These changes also beg the question, why wouldn't a wizard invest heavily in PM now? Was the goal to make every wizard in the game a PM? Do you feel like the goal of making 'tough choices' when building a character is being preserved here?

I'd also like to remind the developers that when you shove candy at the community most of them will respond by telling you what a great job you're doing, so what seems like generally positive feedback should be interpreted cautiously. It must be tempting to bask in the glow of adulation from your fans, but you may actually be making the game worse.

Thanks.

[Tuxedoman96]

Not a huge fan of adding positive healing for PMs, even as someone who runs one and would benefit greatly from it. The game already allows very strong self healing to PMs well into mid reaper difficulties and DC builds already have excellent indirect protection from damage via instakills and CC abilities.

I think the only PM build that has any reasonable claim on being allowed to benefit from positive energy healing is a melee build that has had to make heavy sacrifices to their DCs. A 50% penalty to healing is actually very small especially at cap where overhealing is so commonplace.

To me this just feels like another nail in the coffin of tactical and slower paced play, extending the zergfest towards the highest difficulty levels for nearly everyone. It just feeds into the quick and careless playstyle that characterises so much of DDO. It's also clearly aimed at facilitating play in reaper difficulty, which I believe the developers said they were not going to do.

These changes also beg the question, why wouldn't a wizard invest heavily in PM now? Was the goal to make every wizard in the game a PM? Do you feel like the goal of making 'tough choices' when building a character is being preserved here?

I'd also like to remind the developers that when you shove candy at the community most of them will respond by telling you what a great job you're doing, so what seems like generally positive feedback should be interpreted cautiously. It must be tempting to bask in the glow of adulation from your fans, but you may actually be making the game worse.

Thanks.

I agree with the main points of your statement. TBH there's really only 1 healing class that isn't able to heal PMs in some way (Drd; you get 4 if you count some of the melee classes as healers for some reason). Clrs and FvS get Harm and inflict spells, arties can make you repairable, wizards have themselves (obviously), and bards have the sustaining song. So I definitely think that there's not much reason to desire positive healing for the playstyle. However, given the fact that this has been presented on the official discussions, there's probably not much that will be done. I will say that if this has to happen, then it definitely SHOULD NOT be given for free. The tactical and diverse playstyle is the reason I'm advocating for the HP drain on those necrotic SLAs. As it stands right now, we really only have 3 resources for casting SLAs (4 if you count the ki abilities from HeM cores as SLAs): spell points, charges (which seem to be phasing out) and depravity. We should honestly be looking at having to use different resources and incorporate that, and the drawbacks of forms, etc. in party-based tactics.

[darkmoon_cn]

now solved the problem of survival

But if as dc
wlk have fod sla,Devour the Soul,hurl
sorc have half CD for all spell
cleric have Implosion,high DC mass frog
druid have Earthquake,high DC mass frog

more spell slot not advantage,cause good spell is few

Wizard is still not a good DC

[MasterKernel]

Hello, everyone!

Hi !

One of the big changes here is that Undead players will now be healed 50% by Positive Energy spells.

Meh. Whatever. Last time I've seen a healer was that one guy playing with the Healing Walls at the time new FvS's tree were introduced. We run 1 quest together and never seen each other again. Before that… sometimes back in 2010 ? :-\
I'd rather like to see some self-heal ability build in into the tree. It would be more lore-friendly too.

Core 2: Pale Shroud: Multiselector

Oh, please, can you not take away our choises, can't you ?
At least, put another one into the tree so we can have up to 2 different forms.
Or delete Necrotic Touch/Bolt/Blast and put all the shrouds instead. :-D
Or combine/delete some of the Skeletal Knight's stuff — with the well-known dumb AI it's only good for levers work, nothing more, no matter what boost you'll add.

NEW SPELL:
Finally, there will be a new Level 9 Sorcerer/Wizard Spell - "Rend the Soul":

New spells are alway welcome. :-D
How about 'Create Greater Undead' ? Summons are dumb and such, but why not ? XD
And, while you are doing new spell, please, add 'Vitriolic Sphere' already. ^_^

[Garix]

Oh, please, can you not take away our choises, can't you ?
At least, put another one into the tree so we can have up to 2 different forms.
Or delete Necrotic Touch/Bolt/Blast and put all the shrouds instead. :-D

Look at the enhancements again.

Specifically Tier 4: "Deathly Versatile: Pick a second Shroud Toggle. You may only have one active at a time."

[noinfo]

now solved the problem of survival

But if as dc
wlk have fod sla,Devour the Soul,hurl
sorc have half CD for all spell
cleric have Implosion,high DC mass frog
druid have Earthquake,high DC mass frog

more spell slot not advantage,cause good spell is few

Wizard is still not a good DC

Not sure what game you are playing but my wizard is fine. Want another instakill? use the one in archmage for a pk

[MasterKernel]

Look at the enhancements again.

Specifically Tier 4: "Deathly Versatile: Pick a second Shroud Toggle. You may only have one active at a time."

>_<

They should use a bigger font… or something…
Well, 2 forms are OK I guess.
Still it's not as much as it was. ^_^

[ElweSulk]

Suggested Tier 5 abilities:

• Lich: "Phylactery" - "Resurrect self" version (like the Monk version). This is the most obvious one - a Lich HAS a phylactery.
• Wraith: "pass through enemies" - (like Magister/Unearthly Reactions(Rank3))
• Vampire: Silver DR + constant regen HP (not just vampiric regen on toHit)
• Zombie: DR like other zombies in DDO + maybe disease on toHit

[Garix]

>_<

They should use a bigger font… or something…
Well, 2 forms are OK I guess.
Still it's not as much as it was. ^_^

True, but how many people swapped between more than two often enough that a simple enhancement respec wouldn't cover the outlier cases?