First Look: U43 Pale Master

[Saekee]

Warforged are *living* constructs, not constructs. They are as alive as any other race.

Lord of Blades follower

Why is everyone hung up on healing when useful capabilities within the tree should be advocated for. The goal should be to not be hit or to mitigate damage. A rock that has 1000% neg and pos healing is still just a rock.

As wizzies they get to cast displacement etc, tap into EK etc and can multi

[Cadveen]

If you start the fight with negative energy, that first shot doesn't heal, so you only lose that one.
Of course, if you're fighting alongside others that have already started hitting, then you most definitely come across that issue.

Every class with the feature has that issue - you just learn to cast your weakest spells at fire-immune or fire-absorbing enemies first.

Undead are just more prevalent and more common, so enemies that absorb your "main" element will be more common than iron golems or clay golems.

Speaking of golems, will that immunity bypass apply to them? Most immunity-bypassing class features apply to all monsters with such an immunity, after all.

Will it apply to death warded entities. Now that would be a tier 5 pm enhancement

[Xgya]

Will it apply to death warded entities. Now that would be a tier 5 pm enhancement

Ooh, I can see the bypassing undead immunity in T4, and its effect being upgraded to bypassing deathward in T5!

Still unsure it'd push me to get T5s in PM as they stand, but it sure would help.

[SpardaX]

You don’t read they updates (here) and in Lamania preview (here) to the tree.

Now Wraith get base 10% + 10% from Cores and +5 on Tier 5. SUM: 25% (and please read the explanation on why they do this).
For me it’s nerf.

Yup. I did miss that. And that makes me genuinely sad. I agree with another comment made that said "X is better than Y, so better nerf X but Y is still bad"

You win this round Requiro.

I'm going to go cry.

I'll just avoid this thread now I think, and wait for whatever they bring out so I cant be more disappointed.

[SpardaX]

What about reducing negative penalty healing on reaper, or this would render wizard to be too OP?

I mean yes, if I had that option I would vote that 1000 times over.

But if you just mean for PMs, then I dont think they can do that.

If you mean in general, I dont think they -will- do that.

If I had my way, the Healing Reduction would be changed from the 50%(ish) at 1 skull to - 95%(ish) at 10 skulls (I know those arent the exact numbers, but they're close enough for just an example) to a more static scaled experience like: 9.5%ish reduction per skull, which at 10 skulls would end once again at 95%. The one soul reason I hate reaper, and basically refuse to play it past R2 (and even hate that) is the Healing reduction. And the one thing I say when someone says "Well its basically elite anyway lol!" is NO NO NO IT IS NOT. Without a 50% healing drop it is, but with that its just bad.

But Im pretty sure thats basically set in stone by now. So instead of removing that (which again, I am 100% for) we're left with what we have now.

Despite the fact that in my above option, any PMs in about R8 - R10 are going to be unchanged anyway. But if you want to play in R10, YOU ARE PLAYING IN R10. That's YOUR choice. They said they were never going to balance ANYTHING around Reaper, and that should go double for balancing around R10. And yet, here we are. :/

[sk8r_dan_man]

[*]Shroud of the Zombie: While in this form, +4 Constitution, +20% damage with attacks but you attack 20% slower than normal. You gain +3 PRR, +3 MRR.

I'm mostly looking at the +20% damage/-20% attack speed adjustment. Is the intention here for it to be a wash, because that's not how it adds up.
1.2 * 0.8 = 0.96
This is a net loss of 4% dps. In order for it to be a wash, you need to increase the damage boost to +25%
1.25 * 0.8 = 1.00

[Requiro]

Why is everyone hung up on healing when useful capabilities within the tree should be advocated for. The goal should be to not be hit or to mitigate damage. A rock that has 1000% neg and pos healing is still just a rock.

I don't understand that either. But I have two working theories:

First - people realized that Developers will improve nothing (we all know that Developers are quite stubborn, and they know BETTER). Or maybe they even fear that they nerf more - for "hahaha" balance (like with Wraith)

Second - people that start talking about healing are Developers in disguise, that try distract attention from the important stuff - changes in Tree (which, like I posted are nerf(ish) or just not enough to call them improvments)

Yup. I did miss that. And that makes me genuinely sad. I agree with another comment made that said "X is better than Y, so better nerf X but Y is still bad"

You win this round Requiro.

I'm going to go cry.

I'll just avoid this thread now I think, and wait for whatever they bring out so I cant be more disappointed.

Well... maybe Developers change their mind in nerfing PM. Who knows. Miracles (supposedly) happens.
Maybe that person who lobbying for melee Wizard will go on vacation, and person that replace him/she will push some casting improvements?

I'm mostly looking at the +20% damage/-20% attack speed adjustment. Is the intention here for it to be a wash, because that's not how it adds up.
1.2 * 0.8 = 0.96
This is a net loss of 4% dps. In order for it to be a wash, you need to increase the damage boost to +25%
1.25 * 0.8 = 1.00

Nice try. But you know what? They can (probably) change it - because it's an melee improvement

[Ulfo]

Nice try. But you know what? They can (probably) change it - because it's an melee improvement

Nah... we all know well what is it... all hail Zombie-Shiradi! 1111 8)

[Cadveen]

I don't understand that either. But I have two working theories:

First - people realized that Developers will improve nothing (we all know that Developers are quite stubborn, and they know BETTER). Or maybe they even fear that they nerf more - for "hahaha" balance (like with Wraith)

Second - people that start talking about healing are Developers in disguise, that try distract attention from the important stuff - changes in Tree (which, like I posted are nerf(ish) or just not enough to call them improvments)



Well... maybe Developers change their mind in nerfing PM. Who knows. Miracles (supposedly) happens.
Maybe that person who lobbying for melee Wizard will go on vacation, and person that replace him/she will push some casting improvements?




Nice try. But you know what? They can (probably) change it - because it's an melee improvement

Devs in disguise . You are right. I just still can’t grasp all of this melee nonsense and horrible caster synergy. I was glancing at warlock and each of its enhancement trees has all of the abilities and more of any of the shrouds. Is the warlock soul eater the true necromancer and they want the wizard to either be a sub par melee or a weak, with no ability to raise caster level in tree, neg energy sorc

[tinyelvis]

Devs in disguise . You are right. I just still can’t grasp all of this melee nonsense and horrible caster synergy. I was glancing at warlock and each of its enhancement trees has all of the abilities and more of any of the shrouds. Is the warlock soul eater the true necromancer and they want the wizard to either be a sub par melee or a weak, with no ability to raise caster level in tree, neg energy sorc

Perhaps they are actually trying to squeeze the PM into something a tad more similar to PnP D&D. There, the PM gets nasty touch attacks (relatively speaking), armor wearing bonuses with undead qualities and the skelly buddy.

I think, most of the wizzy stuff, should be wrenched from the PM tree and better applied in another wizard tree like Arch Mage. THis way you can then choose your flavor of PM. That is, choose a melee'ish type PM or work with the AM tree to produce the uber necro casting abomination currently known in DDO as the Pale Master(aka... the only sane wizard build).

[HungarianRhapsody]

The weirdest part of the Pale Master tree is that I love the capstone (ONLY because of the third Death Aura spell you get to apply), but the Tier 5 stuff is hot garbage, so I'll probably end up going either
1) Tier five EK plus PM capstone (trying to spend 40 points in tiers 1-4) or
2) Tier five Archmage plus PM capstone (again trying to spend 40 points in tiers 1-4)

...or just ignoring anything after about 23ish points in PM and accepting that I'm really just an Archmage in Wraith stance.

[Cadveen]

Perhaps they are actually trying to squeeze the PM into something a tad more similar to PnP D&D. There, the PM gets nasty touch attacks (relatively speaking), armor wearing bonuses with undead qualities and the skelly buddy.

I think, most of the wizzy stuff, should be wrenched from the PM tree and better applied in another wizard tree like Arch Mage. THis way you can then choose your flavor of PM. That is, choose a melee'ish type PM or work with the AM tree to produce the uber necro casting abomination currently known in DDO as the Pale Master(aka... the only sane wizard build).

Give the instakill touch attack!

[tinyelvis]

Give the instakill touch attack!

Agreed... if an angry owl can swoop down and kill a guy, certainly some misguided fool who has grafted an undead arm onto his severed limb should too. In all honesty, PM's should get -2 to intelligence for better realism.

[bsquishwizzy]

First, I never thought there was a problem with PM in the first place. My main is a PM. He is fun to play now. Where the problem truly resides is the lvl 20 cap on most spells and Epic Ward that strips PMs of their best stuff - Instakill.

That being said, this is being done so that fighters can access shrouds early so they can get self-healing and other bonuses by splashing wizard. Dumb. How about fixing Kensai or adding something else to the fighter PrEs that doesn't somehow involve a shield?

Secondly, nerfing light damage and bumping positive healing takes half of the fun out of the PrE. There is nothing more terrifying than a sphincter-clenching Sunburst, and you hoping to God that it came from someone on YOUR side. The downsides are half of the fun. Constructs are the reason we have Web.

You wanna fix something? Make Magister less of a POS destiny. Wriggle in healing to AM. Look at removing cap limitations on spells. But please, stop dumbing-down the game. M'Kay?

[SynalonEtuul]

Everyone seems to be focussing on the lore aspect of positive energy healing. I've played a PM for ages now so it does sit wrong with me, but I don't think that's what's important. You can argue the flavour either way - a 'shroud' of undeath, which is what it is, could certainly be argued to reduce healing rather than block it. So I think the lore is secondary.

The reason I don't really like this idea is because I think having impactful and flavourful trade-offs is fun. You get quite a bit for going undead. You don't have to worry about enchantments, level drain, poison or disease, and death effects. We get +100% stacking fort and passive and active self-healing on a traditionally squishy, dependent class. This in addition to the boosts to spellcasting. So being immune to positive energy and vulnerable to light feels like a fair trade-off. Running with the Devils at level on a PM is terrifying. And that's fun! I don't want to lose this tactical aspect of the game - having to be careful and compensate for weaknesses. Some may argue that 50% positive healing is a trade-off (from 100%), but by and large it still means a divine type will be able to just flick off a heal and put us back to full. With our own negative healing on top, PM will become one of the easiest classes to heal in the game. So, quite aside from the lore issue, I just don't find this reduction of weaknesses to be fun. If I were feeling cynical, I would say it's just more catering to zerg-fest playstyles while obviating the need for tactical play of any kind. I think this is a bad direction.

Besides that though, I'm really liking the look of this update! The shroud upgrade selections seem fun, and the death aura SLA looks awesome - level 4 is one of the most competitive levels for spell slots. So overall I'm looking forward to this hitting live. Just have to finish this sorc life before TRing back to Sun Elf PM...

[Requiro]

<snip>

<snip>

For those who like challenge, there is R10.

If you already run R10 easily, you can always run it naked, to made it more challenging.

IMO 50% positive healing will be mostly for new (and casual) PM players whom can't fit anyhow in any group.

[xBunny]

Ok, I might have missed it somewhere, but I can not find release date of this Pass. Going with my 2nd wizard life with EK build, and looking forward for PM enchantments changes.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Ok, I might have missed it somewhere, but I can not find release date of this Pass. Going with my 2nd wizard life with EK build, and looking forward for PM enchantments changes.

SOON(tm)

[Requiro]

Ok, I might have missed it somewhere, but I can not find release date of this Pass. Going with my 2nd wizard life with EK build, and looking forward for PM enchantments changes.

Here you are.

QUOTE

We have a lot of different deployments in motion at the moment and aren't ready to put specific dates attached to most of them, however, our basic schedule outline (could change) looks something like this:

• This Week: U42.3.0 (Masterminds of Sharn Raid 2)
• Mid-Late August: U42.4.0 (Epic Destiny Pass, Reaper Revamp, XP Pass, Pale Master Pass, and more)
• Late August-Early September: U43.0.0 (New Adventure Pack and more)

Again, that could all change but is the general gist of what we are looking at timing wise at the moment.

[Wanatuc]

Main question will DDO give all wizards a lesser heart of wood so that the can do a lesser reincarnation like they did when clerics had that change a while back???