Petition to allow Insightful or Regular stats on sharn craftable rings

[Kielbasa]

I am finding it very difficult to figure out a proper gear layout with the new sharn gear. One thing that would help ease the gear tetris for everyone is allowing insightful or regular stats on the craftable rings. As it stands almost every build is going to have to grind out a slavelords item to fill in what sharn gear is missing.

[droid327]

Some of them do have insightful stats, I think

There's nothing wrong with having to go to other quest packs to finish your gear loadout. No one ever promised Sharn would give you a complete set of all stats you need.

[edgarallanpoe]

Some of them do have insightful stats, I think

There's nothing wrong with having to go to other quest packs to finish your gear loadout. No one ever promised Sharn would give you a complete set of all stats you need.

Bingo...RL gear and Slavers.

Use Sharn Artifact for main stat. Sharn for set that best fits the toon. RL to fill insightful stats and any secondary stats, and quality main stat, depending on stat. Slavers can be used to fill quality stats that are more difficult to fit using RL gear.

I am running 2 toons with complete gear layouts, more are coming. Both are following the layout ideas above. Both have Sharn sets, RL Adherent set, and the rest is fleshed out from Slavers.

[blerkington]

Use Sharn Artifact for main stat.

While I think this is generally good advice, what I noticed when regearing my rogue was this doesn't always produce the best result. That character is a dex-based assassin, so the dex ring and dex goggles both initially looked like plausible choices.

But the insightful combat bonuses on the dex ring are duplicated by other items (umber helm and family set), the sonic absorbtion is near useless, and the dex goggles conflict with collective sight and don't add much else if you intend to use the cloak with ins con and parrying.

Having a +22 to dex would have put my character at an odd stat number. Then there are the additional complications of wanting to slot ghostly and a BiS assassination item. The ring slots are also very congested on this type of build with many choices.

The layout I ended up with means I'm not actually running an artifact full-time, but the character feels no weaker for it. Most of the time he has a gearset that puts his assassination DC about as high as it can be for his build. For boss fights I just swap to the wisdom artifact ring to boost his melee power and get to hit and damage bonuses that actually do something because they stack due to being quality bonuses rather than insightful.

Anyway if there is a moral to this rambling old man style tale, it's that more obvious gearing solutions may not actually produce the best results. I'd advise you take a couple of tries to imagine the best gear set you can because you really don't want to craft slaver items and then have a moment of insight later about how it all could have been done better.

Thanks.

[edgarallanpoe]

While I think this is generally good advice, what I noticed when regearing my rogue was this doesn't always produce the best result. That character is a dex-based assassin, so the dex ring and dex goggles both initially looked like plausible choices.

But the insightful combat bonuses on the dex ring are duplicated by other items (umber helm and family set), the sonic absorbtion is near useless, and the dex goggles conflict with collective sight and don't add much else if you intend to use the cloak with ins con and parrying.

Having a +22 to dex would have put my character at an odd stat number. Then there are the additional complications of wanting to slot ghostly and a BiS assassination item. The ring slots are also very congested on this type of build with many choices.

The layout I ended up with means I'm not actually running an artifact full-time, but the character feels no weaker for it. Most of the time he has a gearset that puts his assassination DC about as high as it can be for his build. For boss fights I just swap to the wisdom ring to boost his melee power and get to hit and damage bonuses that actually do something because they stack due to being quality bonuses rather than insightful.

Anyway if there is a moral to this rambling old man style tale, it's that more obvious gearing solutions may not actually produce the best results. I'd advise you take a couple of tries to make the best gear set you can because you really don't want to craft slaver items and then have a moment of insight later about how it all could have been done better.

Thanks.

I am running a Dex based Vistani, not an assassin like you are but what am I missing about Collective Sight? I see that as more of a Divine item. Yes, it would be nice to have +21 stat and +10 stat on the same item but I don't see what the rest of the item gives that would keep you from using the Dex artifact.

I do, however, completely agree with you in that there is a *lot* of overlap with the new gear....and Yes, I also am struggling to fit ghostly into the mix.

[blerkington]

I am running a Dex based Vistani, not an assassin like you are but what am I missing about Collective Sight? I see that as more of a Divine item. Yes, it would be nice to have +21 stat and +10 stat on the same item but I don't see what the rest of the item gives that would keep you from using the Dex artifact.

I do, however, completely agree with you in that there is a *lot* of overlap with the new gear....and Yes, I also am struggling to fit ghostly into the mix.

I use collective sight for +21 con and +10 ins dex. I agree that it's not obviously a melee rogue item but it provides a very good solution for where to slot those two important effects, and the little saves boost is nice too.

The issue with the dex artifacts, for me anyway, is I'm already getting the effects on them from other gear (like my helm and gloves and cloak) so all they really give me are an odd total dex and three filigree slots which I can do without most of the time.

For trash clearing my rings are the Celestial Ruby with +21 dex plus ghostly and Silver Tongue for the assassination bonuses. Silver Tongue gets swapped for the artifact wisdom ring against bosses so I can get the quality combat bonuses and prowess plus extra melee power.

With a slightly different layout I could be using the dex artifact ring as a swap[ item for a small additional assassination boost, but I am too lazy to switch constantly between rings in trash encounters when both meleeing and assassinating.

This was the best layout I could come up with after several attempts. The dex based artifacts are not good and fit together really poorly with other desirable items for melee rogue builds. Things got a lot better when I started looking at what I could do without them.

Hope that helps. If you come up with some clever layout for your build please post it. I am interested to see what other people are doing and it's entirely possible you see something that I've missed.

Thanks.

[Komradkillingmachine]

Stat customization on Sharn items hasn't been well thought out at all.

Just compare caster items vs melee and ranged:

Not only do they get a +10 insightful stat (Int, Wis, or Cha) on the Shattered Onyx ring (BiS), but also they get a +5 quality stat (Int, Wis, or Cha) on the Black Satin Waist (also BiS). Both of these are non-raid items with non-raid upgrade recipes. Why is it so easy to gear a Caster right now?

Compare that to melees and ranged rings. Only +21 stat upgrade paths. Quality stat upgrades only on raid belt or raid necklace, which breaks part of the Family set. Family recruit sigil is also BiS for ranged toons. All the raid items require raid upgrade recipes which costs you both Sharn Mats and Threads of Fate. Why do melee, ranged and even tanks need to resort to grind soul sucking Slave Lords or the new Raid for quality item upgrades?

From the Preview 3: Loot thread it looked like all the rings were supposed to arrived with +21 stat upgrade paths. Something must have changed between then and release b/c Shattered Onyx getting +10 insightful stat, along with Black Satin Waist getting +5 quality stat is as imbalanced as it gets.

I'm really mad about this, because the only way to boost Main DPS stat for many Melee/Ranged (Even tanks too) is to resort to Collective Sights as its the only option available right now (outside of raids). Not very cool. ALL rings should have had +10 insightful stat upgrade path from the get go.

Also, since Black Satin Waist gets a choice of quality +5 stat upgrade, then Bronze Dragonscale Belt should have had a choice of quality +5 stat upgrade (Str, Dex, Con) too. And instead of having Heal.amp 85% that doesn't stack with armors, it should have been Vitality +67 to go along with its HP boosting theme (or maybe even Exceptional or Equipment bonus to Healing Amplification).


TL;DR

Balance Sharn Rings with each other by making them all have access to Insightful +10 stat path upgrade. NOT just Shattered Onyx ring.

Balance Sharn Non-raid belts with each other by making them all have acces to Quality +5 stat path upgrade. NOT just Black Sating Waist belt.

I wouldn't even be mad to re-grind the rings and mats to upgrade all over again.


As of right now, the gearing is extremely exclusive and restrictive to certain playstyles.



PS.: I hate Legendary Slave Lords grind. If every mat chest I opened on LE diff dropped 30 mats by default, I'd hate it less. Please help!

[Cantor]

Also, since Black Satin Waist gets a choice of quality +5 stat upgrade, then Bronze Dragonscale Belt should have had a choice of quality +5 stat upgrade (Str, Dex, Con) too. And instead of having Heal.amp 85% that doesn't stack with armors, it should have been Vitality +67 to go along with its HP boosting theme (or maybe even Exceptional or Equipment bonus to Healing Amplification).

I really agree on the Hamp. When every armor has it why waist a slot on the belt?

[Dragavon]

Sharn gear is a complete mess. SSG have done a really bad job on it.

[Yamani]

I really agree on the Hamp. When every armor has it why waist a slot on the belt?

Because Esoteric didn't get heal amp on the robe.

[Tist]

The issue with the dex artifacts, for me anyway, is I'm already getting the effects on them from other gear (like my helm and gloves and cloak) so all they really give me are an odd total dex and three filigree slots which I can do without most of the time.

I agree the required path to gearing has to start with the set (bonus effects) you want, and what that set forces you to wear, and gives you, and work out from there.

You mention artifact, dex, odd number. Can't you slot 1 dex filigree from a set you aren't using, now the artifact gives you even dex. Now slot 2 more dex from other sets you aren't using, and the artifact gives you even dex +3 more than you had before.

[Kielbasa]

The issue I am running into is trying to gear a Strength based melee that wants sheltering, decent saves, blurry, ghostly, and improved deception. Not to mention base stats for str, dex, con, wis plus needing insightful, quality str and con. If the rings allowed the option of nearly finished or almost there upgrade I could pull this off with a 3 piece slavers set using the symbol of the slavelords. Right now I will just have to do without insightful strength I guess. I find myself grouping with a lot of ranged and casters lately plus newish to reaper so survivability is at a premium. I cannot just walk into reaper and gain hundreds of hp like some people do.

I would love to be able to use the strength artifact but it conflicts with Castigators best in slot for anyone that wants to heal and be on the front line. Wisdom based based casters also run into this problem only worse in that the wisdom artifact also breaks their sharn set bonus.

[edgarallanpoe]

I agree the required path to gearing has to start with the set (bonus effects) you want, and what that set forces you to wear, and gives you, and work out from there.

You mention artifact, dex, odd number. Can't you slot 1 dex filigree from a set you aren't using, now the artifact gives you even dex. Now slot 2 more dex from other sets you aren't using, and the artifact gives you even dex +3 more than you had before.

Good point. The real power from the Artifacts...besides the best stat... is the cheap 3 piece filigree bonus it gives you. My Inquisitor has the Int neckie with 3 Filigree slots filled with the crackshot negotiator fils. You get a slot for free when you place a sentient gem in a weapon. So, for 3k sentient xp you can get the full 4 piece Crackshot set. I've also slotted a Festive Int gem, A Draconic Gem, and a Globe of True Imperial Blood.

So with that in mind, you should really never be without an artifact. If your main stat artifact interferes with your set bonus then get a secondary stat artifact.

I agree with Dragavon...somewhat. The new gear *does* require some give and take. But the only other option to this was to make Ravenloft gear obsolete which is certainly not the case. It also gave Slavers gear a boost now for the +4 quality stat.

The thing that does have me scratching my head is why the devs placed certain artifacts in slots that would require the player to forgo the set bonuses. This is mitigated a bit with the unfinished rings but still a little bit puzzling.

[guzzlr]

I am really hoping there is some re-evaluation in the works as the new 2nd raid gets closer. I would also like to see some more crafting options with the items. More Nearly & Almost Finished options would be fantastic (and insightful seeker please )

We are really dreading the Slavers grind for the few filler items we need; we are expecting 10-15 runs and mentally preparing for 20.

[blerkington]

I agree the required path to gearing has to start with the set (bonus effects) you want, and what that set forces you to wear, and gives you, and work out from there.

You mention artifact, dex, odd number. Can't you slot 1 dex filigree from a set you aren't using, now the artifact gives you even dex. Now slot 2 more dex from other sets you aren't using, and the artifact gives you even dex +3 more than you had before.

Yes, that is true about using filigrees to even up an odd score. It can be done but it comes at a cost of making other crucial effects like ghostly and assassination DC boost effects very hard to slot. If I was trying to make a max DC assassin (which I think is a build trap) I could have gone all in for dex like this.

It doesn't help with the effect duplication problem either. The family set gloves and umber brim helm gives almost the same amount of insightful accuracy and deadly as the dex artifact ring. My gear also has parrying and enough dodge already making the goggles less useful too, plus slotting high value con and ins dex effects becomes problematic if I use them.

I really think there's been a lack of consideration of how well these items fit together with others even for fairly mainstream builds. The fact that insightful deadly appears on many of them seems really odd to me, since one bug fix will seriously reduce the usefulness of these items. Why is this effect being used when the way it stacks is admittedly bugged, but if it were fixed it would be of no use to people using KTA etc?

And just like the stupid ring Adversion from Ravenloft all over again, the approach seems to have been to include every form of absorbtion regardless of how useful or useless it is just for the inane sake of having all of them represented in there. The people who want to use the dex artifact ring got a real booby prize with sonic absorbtion. There was a real lost opportunity there with not letting us craft on the absorbtion effect of our choice or just using another more useful type of effect.

Anyway, it's very gratifying to see people speaking up about the problems this gear gives them trying to fit it all together because I think there's a lot more discontent about this issue that has been registered on the forums. A good conversation about how endgame gear is designed is well overdue since Sharn was less than a success in that regard.

Thanks.

[OfElectricMen]

As it stands almost every build is going to have to grind out a slavelords item to fill in what sharn gear is missing.

I have 30 characters that I run. The only thing I'm willing to grind for them is heroic Green Steel. Other than that, it's what I find in chests and what I can craft via Cannith. And I have a hard time figuring out what to put where and when with just those.

Trying to get top of the line gear? Sounds like a pain in the butt and I hope they make changes that make it easier for you.

[Kielbasa]

I have 30 characters that I run. The only thing I'm willing to grind for them is heroic Green Steel. Other than that, it's what I find in chests and what I can craft via Cannith. And I have a hard time figuring out what to put where and when with just those.

Trying to get top of the line gear? Sounds like a pain in the butt and I hope they make changes that make it easier for you.

Cannith crafting is amazing till about level 26 when you have the option to grind out epic raid gear. The only things I have to work around is slotting blurry and ghostly while leveling. Even at cap it is passable +22(base+insightful) to your secondary stats which is slightly better than just slotting a ravenloft item. Also being able to add +7 to your primary stat is still good but things reach a point where I need flesh everything out with resistance saves, deception and sheltering for mrr plus quality stats to survive in reaper while I catch up on reaper xp at cap. That is where the nightmare that is slavelords crafting is going to fill a nitch due to slot flexibility despite them being slightly lower than the maximum available. For example there is only one good saves item at cap which I currently use but I won't be able to fit it into my new gear set plus the healing amp on it becomes redundant with sharn armor. The sharn set with an artifact should increase my base damage significantly due to a good bump in melee power but it comes at a cost.

Additionally can we get another double strike item in the next adventure pack? Being tied down to either the ravenloft cloak or a cannith crafted belt if you are using the sharn set is not fun.

[Nickodeamous]

I looted the +22 Wisdom ring the other day, but I too am having a huge issue using anything else from sharn without losing too much. I play a monk that is wisdom based, but I also have high sneak attack die due ethereal plane scion as well as deception items. I tried for a long time to put the part of a family set in and not lose too much, but it really is give and take. I honestly still think my celestial avenger outfit is superior to the new outfits due to the shear amount of stats in carries. They may not be maxed out, but they are just about top. I still even have to run this through the stone alter to get the stats buffed out

[MistaMagic]

Good thread.
I have crafted for my wizard 21 + 10 int on the goggles. For my thrower 21 dex + 10 dex, 22 wis from the minor artifact on a bracers slot and my belt is all slave lords (Just a note that for slave lords crafting for sheltering is 45 for PRR and MRR where as most items now either or, resistance is to ALL saves and lastly you can craft + 4 quality stat which you may not be able to fit in on a specific item)

[Tist]

I didn't mention it before, but I play mostly warlock and gxbow mechanic toons. From beta the gear was terrible for my warlocks. I can't fit in artifact either, I have loads for swap options, but I've given up with gearing the warlocks sensibly this pack, and wait for the next pack hoping it might help things.
Sadly the best option for me is to wear a lot of otherwise rubbish / useless / duplicate adherent set granting pieces.
For both type of toon, slotting ghostly and lesser displace AND artifact has been a total pain in the rear end.

I don't like gear tetris I don't play to have to spend hours working out what I should wear. Some time, yes, but not the total waste of my life this xpack itemisation has caused.