Inquisitive? End Game DPS

[FURYous]

As far as gear, so you guys think trying to fit in both sharn set and mists doesn’t provide enough benefit?

I run with both and am pretty happy with it. I am pretty happy with my build overall right now, give me time though, I will find issues

[polymath]

I run with both and am pretty happy with it. I am pretty happy with my build overall right now, give me time though, I will find issues

Do you have much experience with uptime of ooze flask endgame?

[Scrootaype]

This has been a fun thread to read. Thanks for putting all of your planning together for others to look at.

I started with it to inform how I'd build an inquisitive rogue given my playing over the years has been centered on ranged builds. All the PLs sorta fit nicely into Inquisitive.

Question: have you thought about revisiting your gear matrix with the Feywild sets and new augments? Personally, I've found the Winter set a nice combo with Wall Watch as the starting point given superior Wall Watch ranged dps Artifact bonuses with just three items. Threw out Adherent of the Mists entirely.

Anyhoo, wouldn't mind seeing this conversation continue post-Feywild. Cheers.

[Carpone]

This thread started in the Inquisitive heyday, and that style has been completely gutted since then by the heavy handed nerfs in January 2020. Inquisitive is not top tier end-game DPS anymore.

Also, there's no Feywild gear changes for xbow/throwing daggers. The only ranged that benefits from Feywild gear is shuri, but throwing dagger is a better option than shuri. Perhaps the Feywild raid shuriken will change that up once it's revealed.

[SimCat]

if inquisitor isn't top tier, what's top tier now-a-days? knife or shuriken thrower builds?

[Stoner81]

if inquisitor isn't top tier, what's top tier now-a-days? knife or shuriken thrower builds?

Alchemists and Sorcs are current top DPS in my experience (not from playing but running with).

Stoner81.

[Bunker]

As far as crossbow builds go, even after the past inquisitive nerf I believe the following is still accurate.

Dual > gxbow > repeater at end game.

[HumanJHawkins]

As far as crossbow builds go, even after the past inquisitive nerf I believe the following is still accurate.

Dual > gxbow > repeater at end game.

How about for heroic levels? Meaning, if the game were just level 1 to 20 (or you planned to TR), how would you change this build, and why?

[Agr33n3]

How about for heroic levels? Meaning, if the game were just level 1 to 20 (or you planned to TR), how would you change this build, and why?

There are a number of changes you could make to this build to make it purely a 1-20 levelling build for a Past Life, and two of those things are

1: front-loading 6 levels of Rogue for the HIT/DMG and INT to damage by level 6/7.
or
2: adding in levels of ranger for free ranged feats and Sniper Shot.

The main reason for front-loading 6 rogue is two-fold: the 3rd Core of Mechanic grants you INT to damage on your crossbows. You already want INT to hit and KtA from Harper Agent, but saving 3 AP to instead spend on hit/damage will help you move through mobs faster.

Alternatively, taking 6 levels of ranger does a few things for you: gives you free feats (Rapid Shot, Diehard, Precise Shot, 2 favored enemies) and access to Deepwood Stalker (3rd core Sniper Shot has extra hit, critical threat, critical multiplier, and leaves the target vulnerable to sneak attacks for 6 seconds).

Hope this helps!

[Deathmaster35]

How about for heroic levels? Meaning, if the game were just level 1 to 20 (or you planned to TR), how would you change this build, and why?

heroic levels are a bit of a mess as most things in the game at this point are set up for epics. inquisitive is kind of iffy prior to getting the 5th tier enhancements as you get more power, more law dice and 30% alacrity.
repeaters are very good at low levels before your damage bonuses are very high where their damage penalty hurts more. repeaters are designed for a much older version of the game and have no been revamped to go along with current combat mechanics. having reduced double shot effect and their damage reduced just makes them bad.
someone was claiming they are better than inquisitive at end game, I just don't see how that is possible with the built in penalties of the reapers(which would be great if they listed those in the game so people easily knew about them)

I hvnt tried great xbow since inquisitive launched as it was significantly better than great xbow at the time. I was playing a great xbow rogue when it launched and my damage skyrocketed switching to inquisitive. I have basically ignored them since even after the inquisitive nerfs. if there were any great xbow buffs, I missed them in the notes

[Agr33n3]

heroic levels are a bit of a mess as most things in the game at this point are set up for epics. inquisitive is kind of iffy prior to getting the 5th tier enhancements as you get more power, more law dice and 30% alacrity.
repeaters are very good at low levels before your damage bonuses are very high where their damage penalty hurts more. repeaters are designed for a much older version of the game and have no been revamped to go along with current combat mechanics. having reduced double shot effect and their damage reduced just makes them bad.
someone was claiming they are better than inquisitive at end game, I just don't see how that is possible with the built in penalties of the reapers(which would be great if they listed those in the game so people easily knew about them)

I hvnt tried great xbow since inquisitive launched as it was significantly better than great xbow at the time. I was playing a great xbow rogue when it launched and my damage skyrocketed switching to inquisitive. I have basically ignored them since even after the inquisitive nerfs. if there were any great xbow buffs, I missed them in the notes

I agree! Repeaters are super useful, especially in single-digit levels where mobs have less than 200 hp.

Levelling from 1-12 as an Inquisitive is quite painful, but this is a problem for almost all ranged builds due to low BAB which scales the rate of fire.

Repeating crossbows are super useful at low levels and let you make use of your rune arm for extra damage (it won't be good damage but it will be more than without it). Grab yourself a nice repeating crossbow like the Hellfire Crossbow or Nicked Repeating Light Crossbow. With a deadly item you can almost kill one enemy per burst, and this is super useful when there are 4-5 enemies per mob.

Once you hit level 12 (at the latest) you will want to swap over to Inquisitive because No Holds Barred is an insane dps boost.

[Stoner81]

There are a number of changes you could make to this build to make it purely a 1-20 levelling build for a Past Life, and two of those things are

1: front-loading 6 levels of Rogue for the HIT/DMG and INT to damage by level 6/7.
or
2: adding in levels of ranger for free ranged feats and Sniper Shot.

The main reason for front-loading 6 rogue is two-fold: the 3rd Core of Mechanic grants you INT to damage on your crossbows. You already want INT to hit and KtA from Harper Agent, but saving 3 AP to instead spend on hit/damage will help you move through mobs faster.

Alternatively, taking 6 levels of ranger does a few things for you: gives you free feats (Rapid Shot, Diehard, Precise Shot, 2 favored enemies) and access to Deepwood Stalker (3rd core Sniper Shot has extra hit, critical threat, critical multiplier, and leaves the target vulnerable to sneak attacks for 6 seconds).

Hope this helps!

I disagree with 1...

INT for to-hit and DMG by level 4(?) from Harper Agent. Also doing this will mean you will not get IPS until either level 15 or even 18 due to lack of BAB. Going from 1-20 you WANT IPS as early as possible. Everything in the Mechanic tree (more or less) is useless for Inquisitive since non of it(?) applies to Dual Shooting, so you are spending 10 points in to a tree where you can spend 8 points less and gain INT for to-hit and damage and put those other 8 points in to DWS.

At minimum you want 6 Ranger and if possible 9 for BAB imho.

Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

Levelling from 1-12 as an Inquisitive is quite painful, but this is a problem for almost all ranged builds due to low BAB which scales the rate of fire.

Flat out wrong...

This is dependent on what classes you take since that is where your BAB comes from and not the enhancement tree. There are multiple reasons why many Inquisitives are 9 Ranger and 4 Arti.

Levels 1-4 use a heavy repeating crossbow.
Levels 5-7 use Diplomancer from the anniversary event, if this isn't available then can use Cannith Crafting to make something pretty decent especially if you can get hold of a double slotted Heavy Crossbow.
Levels 8-19 use Ratcatcher, the best heroic crossbow there is bar non imho.
Levels 20-29 either use Ratcatcher or use Epic Storm if you have it. Fill it with decent filligree's and that will beat Ratty any day of the week.

Stoner81.

[Ulfo]

Also doing this will mean you will not get IPS until either level 15 or even 18 due to lack of BAB. Going from 1-20 you WANT IPS as early as possible.

And why you need IPS at all? After nerf no ranged used it in sanely mind, currently it's just trap feat. 8)

[Deathmaster35]

And why you need IPS at all? After nerf no ranged used it in sanely mind, currently it's just trap feat. 8)

it still is useful, just not nearly as much. I have it and archers focus set up as hot keys so I can quickly change back and forth. it's worth is entirely based on what content you are doing. with lots of quests appearing to be set up as some internal developer contest for how many enemies they can fit in the dungeon, it is useful. when doing a quest with reasonable sized fights where stuff is spread out, or fighting a boss it isn't.

[Agr33n3]

Flat out wrong...

This is dependent on what classes you take since that is where your BAB comes from and not the enhancement tree. There are multiple reasons why many Inquisitives are 9 Ranger and 4 Arti.

Levels 1-4 use a heavy repeating crossbow.
Levels 5-7 use Diplomancer from the anniversary event, if this isn't available then can use Cannith Crafting to make something pretty decent especially if you can get hold of a double slotted Heavy Crossbow.
Levels 8-19 use Ratcatcher, the best heroic crossbow there is bar non imho.
Levels 20-29 either use Ratcatcher or use Epic Storm if you have it. Fill it with decent filligree's and that will beat Ratty any day of the week.

Stoner81.

I disagree.

From 1-11 you have ok single target dps, but your clearing speed is minimal unless you change targets and utilize every ounce of dps you have - this is not the case for 90% of the playerbase.

Using a repeating crossbow is useful from 1-4 REGARDLESS of the class you take because your BAB will be at most 4. This equates to SLOW shooting even with a pure Fighter, and you are nearly always better off with a repeater. 3 shots in a row will clear a pack faster than 1 at a time (at this point). Link any builds that have higher dps from 1-4 dual-wielding than using a repeater.

Also, I would think that Diplomacer and Ratcatcher are not common items in DDO compared to other named loot, and certainly dependent on both time of year and spending Party Favors for a weapon you might not use again. If you have them, certainly use them, but it's not a terribly common item.

At level 2, those F2P or without Ratcatcher will want to pick up both an Ethereal Repeating Light Crossbow (from Borderlands ingots) and a Nicked Repeating Light Crossbow (from the end of Sharn Syndicate chain). The Ethereal crossbow will help you deal with reapers while the Nicked will give you deadly, 2d6 cold damage on hit, and some doubleshot to clear regular mobs.

I highly recommend using a repeater with Mechanic from 1-6 at least, and maybe until level 12. Either way, you definitely want a Barovian crossbow of either type when you hit level 10. 3d6 Fire and Good damage, along with Good bypass, is much better than the extra 1 multi from Ratcatcher in mid heroics.


Adding levels of Ranger for a PL is a no-brainer, though I can't see any reason to add more levels of ranger after 9: if you run from 1-20 you are likely doing a PL, or going 1-30 for both a heroic and epic PL. If running an epic PL, you need to be viable in both epics and heroics, in which case other classes will give more benefits (like Rogue sneak attack dice). Having more than 9 levels of Ranger makes you ineligible for any class PL other than Ranger, and if you want a smooth levelling Ranger PL, just use Tempest for two reasons. If you are looking for purely ranged feats from Ranger levels AND getting a different class PL, add only 4 to get Precise Shot.

Tempest ranger gets awesome AoE dps from 12-30. 1-11 with Tempest is worth the slog IMO. If you have mostly ranger levels, why even play Inquis?

Adding 6 levels of ranger is a nice idea if you want to put points into DWS instead of Mechanic, but you won't have enough room for a lot of the good stuff in T4 if you have both DWS and Mechanic.

At level 4 you have 12 points in HA for INT to hit and damage. From 4-11 you just want big spiky damage, as you have a low BAB, no AoE, and don't have NHB yet. From 12-15 the lack of AoE is less noticeable as NHB melt targets almost instantly.

Another important note (mostly as a reminder): take your 1st level as a Rogue to maximize skill points, followed by 2 levels of Arti for Conjure Bolts and Rune Arm access. Having a rune arm allows for a bit of extra damage per shot, which is particularly helpful in low levels. Conjure Bolts allows you to save AP in Inquisitive and use the spell instead of an SLA.


Here's where I will address Mechanic+Rogue versus DWS+Ranger:

Mechanic: focused exclusively on hit/damage, and sneak attack. With 11 points in Mechanic and 8 in HA, you have INT to hit/damage, KtA, and 2x Sharpshooter for more damage. This is possible between levels 4 and 5. In later levels, one has access to 3x sharpshooter, stripping constructs' Sneak Attack Immunity, cores 1-4 (good damage), 10 ranged power, and extra stats for trapping.
Total stats: +3 to Hit/damage, INT to damage (saves 3 AP in HA), +1 SA dice, +10 RP, +20 meters Sneak and +30 meters Trap detection range.

DWS: focused on defenses and sneak attack. At level 5, you need 12 points in HA for INT to hit/damage, leaving you with 8 AP at level 5 to play with, 5 AP if you are Dual-shooting. This gets you Sniper Shot and Aimed Shot by level 8.
Total stats: +4 SA dice, +60 hp, +12 PRR, +10% doubleshot if you take 3 ranks in Killer (reminder Inq. gets their doubleshot halved), Sniper Shot, Aimed Shot, and AB: Ranged Power.


Furthermore, if you choose to use Mechanic in the early levels with a repeating crossbow (by level 7) you get extra bonuses from the Sharpshooter enhancement line. Having the first 3 Sharpshooters changes +3 to +6 to damage and adds +3 Sneak dice. Additionally, when changing from Mechanic to Inquisitive, you can keep extra damage from Sharpshooter and all the enhancements you planned to take along the way once you reset for mostly Inquisitive. I find that Shoot Later, Martial Inquistion, and Greater Law can wait until you take the T5 of inquisitive, using those AP instead for Mechanic and other goodies.


To wrap up: both Ranger and Rogue are classes that split very well with an inquisitive build. The amount of Ranger levels depends on PL requirements and viability in epics. Whereas a mostly Ranger Inquisitive will get ranged feats earlier, have a bit more hit points, and two active abilities from DWS, a mostly Rogue Inquisitive will have more sneak dice and higher base damage from Mechanic. Both playstyles are viable, but if you want a PL other than ranger, adding 6 Rogue is the way to go IMO.

Note: you can have both 6 ranger and 6 rogue, followed by levels in either or a third class, but does not solve the struggle for AP: you are strapped since you want 41 in Inquis and either 8 or 11 in HA, leaving you with between 28 and 32 AP leftover at level cap. You then have a choice between T4 Mechanic, T4 DWS, or some other split.

P.S.: After levelling as an inquis, I am stumped as to whether I should use more abilities or keep sustained firing. Some abilities seem to have a lengthy reload (maybe half speed of a regular reload) and choosing which active abilities have the least interruption of firing and best benefits for adding shots. Inquisitive has Shoot Later, which is an awesome ability, and if you have 6 Ranger Sniper Shot is a beast.


Here is a brief layout of the Rogue Inquisitive I used from 1-30 for both a Rogue PL and Epic PL. This build gets IPS at level 15 and has a total of 26 sneak dice at level cap (9 of which come from 17 levels of Rogue). If you plan to run 1-20, I recommend swapping the Fighter level for Barbarian. This will give you an extra 10% stacking movement speed and 1 AP in Ravager can net you +6 to hit/damage when firing consistently.

I used 17 Rogue, 2 Artificer, and 1 Fighter. the Fighter level gives an extra feat and extra NHB from AP in Kensei.

I suggest taking the levels as follows:

1- Rogue - Point Blank Shot
2- Artificer
3- Artificer - Rune Arm Use and Insightful Reflexes
4- Rogue
5- Fighter
6-20 Rogue (Precise Shot at 6, Imp. Crit and Imp. Evasion at 12, IPS at 15)