102 DC Still not enough to pop Sharn trash

[count_spicoli]

Do you really want your non necro non illusion build to be landing your spells in endgame reaper? Wouldn't this be an insult to those have built dc specific casters squeezing out every last drop of int or cha or wis trying to land DC's in difficult content? You have a mutt build that might be fun to play on the tr train but for challenging end game stuff should it be that easy? You really dont want that do you?

I'm not saying your build cant be viable and supportive in end game content but gear up and figure out what you can and cant do. Dont expect to finger and pk high forts. hold them and throw some dps and maybe pop a finger a caster now and then. Maybe throw others a heal or 2. End game high reaper takes some practice to be viable in.

[Montegue]

Do you really want your non necro non illusion build to be landing your spells in endgame reaper? Wouldn't this be an insult to those have built dc specific casters squeezing out every last drop of int or cha or wis trying to land DC's in difficult content? You have a mutt build that might be fun to play on the tr train but for challenging end game stuff should it be that easy? You really dont want that do you?

I'm not saying your build cant be viable and supportive in end game content but gear up and figure out what you can and cant do. Dont expect to finger and pk high forts. hold them and throw some dps and maybe pop a finger a caster now and then. Maybe throw others a heal or 2. End game high reaper takes some practice to be viable in.

No I have no interest in endgame reaper, which was clear in previous posts on this thread. This isn't about 10skull+ runs, it's about EE and 1-5 skull content, and the frustration with spells bouncing against sharn trash mobs.

[Montegue]

For a first life toon:

Missing:
+2 int from lich form.
+2 int from improved shrouding

The missing int from undead forms is something I'm happy to sacrifice. Playing undead never interested me, and the self-healing is junk even in low reaper content. I'd rather have the ability to spend zero mana doing spell damage to mobs with my sword than floating about waiting to get smoked with light damage.

+2 int from Raid filigree
+1 int from Dire Thamturge core 3 permanent +1

I didn't list any reaper enhancements. I am pretty sure I have that, but need to check and the servers are down.

+2 from pots (you have +2 listed but you can run perma +4 total with yugo and mysterious rem turn in)
+2 int filigree random (slotted in minor artifact)** see edit

So, Yugo pots are not something I have, and open filligree slots are a grind (not that I'm not doing that, but let's not pretend it takes no time to do).

So, get flagged for Yugo pots.

Edit - I also dont see int from filigrees other than otto/beholder you listed. You can have 3 slots on a minor artifact for a total of 11 filigree which you could slot the above mentioned +2 raid and two other random +1 ints

I'll look for the +2 raid filligrees. They haven't dropped for me yet. Also for a unicorn, I mean a reaper helm :P

So -

With Raid +2, Yugo +2, and a Helm +2, and Filigree +2, I'm looking at a 106. Even if I went undead, it's 108.

So my gear is *very* close to being about as good as it can be in terms of DC casting. A handful of hard-to-find upgrades, and more grinding on the sentient, but at the end of the day, it's not really my gear that's the problem. Update to Magister can't come fast enough.

[silinteresting]

the self-healing is junk even in low reaper content.

lmao at that one, sorry but your wrong.

your friend sil

[Vorachtin]

lmao at that one, sorry but your wrong.

your friend sil

Yeah undead healing with new sharn gear is stupid good, especially in ee to low reapers he mentions running, that statement shows a lack of current game knowledge

[Montegue]

Yeah undead healing with new sharn gear is stupid good, especially in ee to low reapers he mentions running, that statement shows a lack of current game knowledge

I'll look into it, sure. I have my doubts about it's efficacy, though, compared to spellsword damage + EA healing.

[Shadow_Jumper]

I'll look into it, sure. I have my doubts about it's efficacy, though, compared to spellsword damage + EA healing.

If you prefer to be able to be healed by party members, I’d recommend going archmage tree capstone with EK splash for the defense stuffs. Guildy runs it and it’s quite good, your DCs will be a little lower than PM though.

[5chinoble]

I dunno... its almost seems there is a touch of an inflated requirement when it comes to forums.. all things unless you have 135DC in this school or you can get your spells to work...

I play on a DC CC caster called nymph-1.. in reaper her DC's on all schools vary from 109-116 and i get by perfectly fine even when i jump into those R10 groups

maybe my play style is different, i dont rely on a single type of CC, or insta kill, or a debuff but a composition of them all

Weather it be web, hypno, mind fog, electric loop, greater shout, flesh to stone, halt undead, crushing despair, energy drains, holds, discos, fod/pk, mass frog, undead to death, circle of death, glacial wrath, otto's dance.. glitter dust...... even throw in a charm and control undead for boot... dont also forget things like cyclonic blast.. things being tripped is a form of CC

you can get crazy DC.. but if you dont know what to do with it, your like a blunt instrument....

[Avocado]

I dont believe there was any additional stat inflation beyond what is expected, the mobs in sharn chain 1 are mostly coded as fighters, which is why they have high fort saves. Even the boromar crossbow guys are coded as fighters. There will saves are trash.

[Hobgoblin]

I dont believe there was any additional stat inflation beyond what is expected, the mobs in sharn chain 1 are mostly coded as fighters, which is why they have high fort saves. Even the boromar crossbow guys are coded as fighters. There will saves are trash.

which xbow guys?


i have issues with several of the ranged to the point where i tend to ignore them and move on

[Hawkwier]

I agree with the sentiment of the OP.

The disparity with which visage of terror lands in sharn is huge even on low reaper.

And unlike DC casters it isn't easy to increase its DC. Only through added con, which is limited.

No particular issues in not landing in high reaper mode, where it is supposed to be tough.

But it should be dialled back on lower difficulties.

This trend risks obsolescence of a key capstone otherwise. Needs some thought and attention going forward please devs, if this is to be the plan.

[slarden]

I dunno... its almost seems there is a touch of an inflated requirement when it comes to forums.. all things unless you have 135DC in this school or you can get your spells to work...

I play on a DC CC caster called nymph-1.. in reaper her DC's on all schools vary from 109-116 and i get by perfectly fine even when i jump into those R10 groups

maybe my play style is different, i dont rely on a single type of CC, or insta kill, or a debuff but a composition of them all

Weather it be web, hypno, mind fog, electric loop, greater shout, flesh to stone, halt undead, crushing despair, energy drains, holds, discos, fod/pk, mass frog, undead to death, circle of death, glacial wrath, otto's dance.. glitter dust...... even throw in a charm and control undead for boot... dont also forget things like cyclonic blast.. things being tripped is a form of CC

you can get crazy DC.. but if you dont know what to do with it, your like a blunt instrument....

I dont believe there was any additional stat inflation beyond what is expected, the mobs in sharn chain 1 are mostly coded as fighters, which is why they have high fort saves. Even the boromar crossbow guys are coded as fighters. There will saves are trash.

These are both really good assessments. 121 DC is definitely achievable and with clickies that would get you to 135 (arcane insight, arcane spellsurge and reaper potency for 14 dc boost) But I agree with both of you I also operate around the 109-116 range which allows me to take ruin, greater ruin empower, maximize, etc. and makes me more effective solo/shortman and R5. I also agree, when I run R10 with those DCs there is only a few enemies I notice a spell not working that worked on R5, but I've never run into a scenario where I didn't have another spell to use that helped out the party instead. I do take advantage of clickies but I don't run in magister and didn't take arcane insight.

You are right that Sharn has a higher # of high fort save enemies coded as fighters (even non fighters as you pointed out). Even on R5 I don't bother trying to instakill those enemies and instead use spells targeting a different save (mostly will). The vaunt guards have a high will save and aren't cc'd but they can be instakilled or stunned with things targeting a fort save.

I wanted to test out both PM self-healing, shadowdancer dps and inquisitor so I built an 18 wizard 2 artificer inquisitor running in Shadowdancer and ran 40 level 30+ quests at cap. It was very capable of soloing R5 and even with a lowish 101 enchant DC it was very effective across a wide range of level 30+ content including sharn. It wasn't no-save in Sharn but still was effective. Since my DPS was not spell based I could debuff without fear of running out of spell points. Crushing Despair brought the effective dc to 106 and mind fog caught a few extra enemies that were on the bubble. I also spammed color spray with a 90s save and it worked on quite a few enemies, but I only really used it because it was cheap.

I also had some single target spells I used quite a bit: Power Word Kill, Power Word Stun, Otto's Irresistable Dance, Finger of Death (still effective with 90s save against some enemies). I twisted in Otto's Whistler as one more single-target cc option.

As far as self-healing I ran with wallwatch set rather than esoteric and only took 25 points in PM for wraith form and tier 4. Lesser death aura was marginal and I only ran it because I had so many spell points. Death Aura was consistently hitting for mid 100s R5 with crits over 200. Negative Energy burst was over 400 on R5. My nullifaction item was a 138 augment which also gave me 57 implement bonus. I had silverthread belt, velvet capelet, and negative healing amp 61 trinket. I completely forgot about insightful nullification but did use the wisdom artifact (since capelet gave me 21 int which was good enough). This gave me 41 quality potency and light absorb 31%.

Let me re-emphasize what 5chinoble wrote which was so true:

i dont rely on a single type of CC, or insta kill, or a debuff but a composition of them all

Weather it be web, hypno, mind fog, electric loop, greater shout, flesh to stone, halt undead, crushing despair, energy drains, holds, discos, fod/pk, mass frog, undead to death, circle of death, glacial wrath, otto's dance.. glitter dust...... even throw in a charm and control undead for boot... dont also forget things like cyclonic blast.. things being tripped is a form of CC

you can get crazy DC.. but if you dont know what to do with it, your like a blunt instrument....

Very well said - knowing what spells to use and when is more important than hitting a magic number. As a melee arcane warrior dire charge should also be part of the equation. I didn't take mass frog on the pm inquisitor build, but I do take mass frog on my pure casters - even with a lowish wisdom it helps against some undead and constructs.

[Montegue]

which xbow guys?


i have issues with several of the ranged to the point where i tend to ignore them and move on

Archer toons throughout sharn are basically immune to every **** thing but Finger of Death in this DC range. Yes, you can pop them with Despair and then hit them with Mass Hold, and you might land it then, but that's a hell of a SP tax on a single Mass Hold spell.

[Kaboom2112]

Archer toons throughout sharn are basically immune to every **** thing but Finger of Death in this DC range. Yes, you can pop them with Despair and then hit them with Mass Hold, and you might land it then, but that's a hell of a SP tax on a single Mass Hold spell.

Or you can gear your toon properly and hit the DCs needed to run the latest content.

[slarden]

Archer toons throughout sharn are basically immune to every **** thing but Finger of Death in this DC range. Yes, you can pop them with Despair and then hit them with Mass Hold, and you might land it then, but that's a hell of a SP tax on a single Mass Hold spell.

I think you are talking about the vaunt guards- super high will saves but low fort saves - fairly large force #s so they must be dealt with fast. There are many enemies in Sharn -most of the crossbow users have a low will save and high fort save. Vaunt guards are the exception.

[Hobgoblin]

I think you are talking about the vaunt guards- super high will saves but low fort saves - fairly large force #s so they must be dealt with fast. There are many enemies in Sharn -most of the crossbow users have a low will save and high fort save. Vaunt guards are the exception.

i would have to do it again - but the one i remember was the archer type mobs in wraithcallers

again im trying to gear up so my dcs arnt the best...... rogues? got held and nuked ez. melee same. casters? wailed. ez

archers? hold no. finger no. had evasion so dbf no. finally used acid well and that got them

r1 for context.

yes i know i suck im slowly getting better

[vik1]

Looking at your build I think what they are saying about needing to build for DCs is true. Unfortunately you suffer for trying to do a DPS + DC caster.

1. Maybe I'm missing something, but where's your spell focus mastery +7 item? For me that's nightmother's scepter.

2. Orb: leg cursed skull gives me necro focus +8 (+1 over spell focus mastery +7 item). Then you'd have to rely on nightmother's scepter
for your ins sp focus mastery +4.

3. You're trying to max illusion, enchant, and necro. Unfortunately, you don't have enough feats for that and the weapon fighting line. Focus on 2 schools or just 1 school (prob enchant) and DPS.

4. You're talking about necro DCs but all of your spell foci are enchant. As a straight DC caster I have room for both enchant and necro
spell/greater spell focus. I didn't take ep sp focus necro though: I didn't have room for it. I went for necro first and enchant second,
as will is generally easier to land than fort and has better debuffs.

5. EK is not as good as AM for necro DCs. Sure you get Knight's Arcanum (notice no necro DC boost there), but compare that to
Master of Magic, School Mastery, School Mastery II, and Secondary School Mastery equivalents?
It's fine if you don't like Palemaster, but you need to go with a necro AM T5 setup then to max your necro DCs. Also, AM helps you
extend your spell point pool so you don't need to swing a weapon (also Arcane Pulse).

6. Exalted Angel epic destiny: you're forgetting a few things.
6a. you didn't twist in spell school specialist (necro) from Magister, but enchant.
6b. you're missing +6 int from taking int in all Magister tiers. EDIT: I missed the +3 DC from transcendental magic.
6c. you don't get Arcane Spellsurge, which is a very handy clickie to have even with the cooldown.

7. No Arcane Insight (not a must, but it's handy).

8. Scion of the Feywild: +4 to enchant, +2 to others. I went with Scion of the ShadowFell: +4 to necro, +2 to others.

9. Finally, you're not twisting in 2 int feats + fatesinger: echoes of the arcane.

[PublicEnemy]

Well, if I may comment on this topic, currently a dps/cc mix and Im doing pretty well up to r3/r5 sharn and above for the rest (RL,WPM etc...) with a standing DC of around 80~ , just know what each type of enemy has as a low save.

I can hold the high fort ones with no problem and insta kill the high will/reflex ones as well oh and DPS is pretty good.
And this is me being low on reaper points with currently only 23 points, slowly investing in the arcane one. And went with the "part of family" set, so could up the DC but dps is better that way.

[Montegue]

Looking at your build I think what they are saying about needing to build for DCs is true. Unfortunately you suffer for trying to do a DPS + DC caster.

1. Maybe I'm missing something, but where's your spell focus mastery +7 item? For me that's nightmother's scepter.

Leg. Arcsteel Brim gives the same spell focus.

3. You're trying to max illusion, enchant, and necro. Unfortunately, you don't have enough feats for that and the weapon fighting line. Focus on 2 schools or just 1 school (prob enchant) and DPS.

It's mostly illusion and Enchantment, both of which are about equal (I don't need Spell Focus Illusion because Deep Gnome and Past Lives).

4. You're talking about necro DCs but all of your spell foci are enchant. As a straight DC caster I have room for both enchant and necro
spell/greater spell focus. I didn't take ep sp focus necro though: I didn't have room for it. I went for necro first and enchant second,
as will is generally easier to land than fort and has better debuffs.

Always more interested in holding/immobilizing groups of mobs. My DCs are all near or just above 100, though.

6. Exalted Angel epic destiny: you're forgetting a few things.
6a. you didn't twist in spell school specialist (necro) from Magister, but enchant.

I do, I just forgot to put it up there.

6b. you're missing +6 int from taking int in all Magister tiers. EDIT: I missed the +3 DC from transcendental magic.
6c. you don't get Arcane Spellsurge, which is a very handy clickie to have even with the cooldown.

I'm looking more and more at the clickie bonuses. Their cast time sucks, and their duration is low. Often, I don't have a lot of time to cast them and then do the job, but I could be better at it. I still don't know that it's worth the self and group healing advantages of EA.

8. Scion of the Feywild: +4 to enchant, +2 to others. I went with Scion of the ShadowFell: +4 to necro, +2 to others.

That is my Scion, again, forgot to add it above. Was doing feats from memory.

9. Finally, you're not twisting in 2 int feats + fatesinger: echoes of the arcane.

I have one Int feat that I twist in from Shadowdancer when I don't need Sheath, but when I need sheath it has to go.

[vik1]

My opinion: since you like enchant anyway, just scrap your necro specific stuff and throw it all into enchant. That should boost your enchant DC by at least 5, right? Then you've got one serviceable school instead of 2 that aren't.

The clickies are nice, but definitely not a necessity. Ideally you'd have 3: one from Magister, Arcane Insight, and Reaper's Potency so you could alternate them.

You don't have to go with Magister; I was just pointing out how I have 4 int twists instead of your 3 twists max.

The only other thing you're missing is more int. 94 int seems a bit low, but I'm not sure where you're lacking. I don't think it's gear though: you have +22 int, +10 ins int, +4 qual int, +1 exc int, +3 artifact int, +2 profane int, and +2 festive int. Maybe it's your filigrees + twists?