Lh thth

[Clemeit]

as it stands now its not a raid every one would be able to compete on normal

Don't find this to be true at all. Already seen plenty of PUGs complete - was in one today. But even it it were true, I still have no problem with that. Not everyone can complete the most difficult raid in the game? Alright.

[Arkat]

Don't find this to be true at all. Already seen plenty of PUGs complete - was in one today. But even it it were true, I still have no problem with that. Not everyone can complete the most difficult raid in the game? Alright.

All players (even casuals) should be able to be in a group that can complete it on Normal.

There are 12 other difficulty settings to make it challenging to the non-casuals.

[Yamani]

Congratulations! We've pulled a fresh set of numbers today after reading a lot of raid talk over the weekend, and ahead of tomorrow's likely patch, here are the numbers:

Generally dozens or more of Normal completions on almost every server. Eight Legendary Hard completions on Ghallanda. One LH completion on Khyber. Two LH completions on Sarlona. No Legendary Elite completions recorded.

Generally dozens = wayfinder has 0.

[Mindos]

Eight Legendary Hard completions on Ghallanda.

Hmmm, who's the big raiding guild on Gallanda...

[Arkat]

Hmmm, who's the big raiding guild on Gallanda...

Omnipresence from the posted completions I've seen.

[entropyspinner]

All players (even casuals) should be able to be in a group that can complete it on Normal.

If that were the case, they should enable casual difficulty for raids. There are plenty of normal completions. There shouldn't be an expectation to have that completion in the first day(s) or first runs.

Raids ought to be the pinnacle of all the playing experience, gear ground out, and relationships created for an actual completion. Not simply an extended quest with six more players to pile into, leaving little if any motivation to get better.

It seems that players being able to mindlessly and casually complete 99%+ of the existing content simply is not enough. With the self-entitled attitudes I've been seeing in these threads concerning the raid and now the nerfing, I'm now inclined to no longer post raid pugs and teach raids. I fail to see the point of doing so.

With the expansion pricing as it was, allowing every player to be entitled to every piece of gear, content, and experience, without putting in the time or proper prep work, makes better business sense. I can't fault them there. I do want SSG to make profit, hire quality talent and continue pushing out quality entertaining content.

However, having players of 6 months entitled to everything a 10 year veteran player is able to obtain is out of whack. How about an FTP raid, challenging even to endgame players which does not directly tie into transactions. Make the loot interesting, not necessarily game changing. Add unique cosmetics, pets, ingredient drops, raid timers, unique fun gear useful only in other raids perhaps.

With tomorrow's nerf and a couple more runs, I'll have all the gear I need from Too Hot to Handle and will likely relegate it back to just another raid that everyone else can zerg through making it nothing at all special.

I loved the idea of Killing Time and the retro raid ideas being implemented there. I think there was a missed opportunity by not adding more raid instances, as well as making those purely random. Imagine to find the end fight of a 40 minute raid being a random fight of any of a dozen previous raids. Or simply being teleported to the end fight of one of the other raids at an appropriate difficulty.

Perhaps a FTP raid as a king of all raids that can continually evolve with the game and not be held back by consumer complaints feeling entitled to more for their hard earned dollars. Recouping the costs of development should be with the player's added TR grinds and the resources purchased toward them, as well as raid timers being purchased. Maybe even extend the raid wait time by more than 3 days if you have to. Another option might be, for each completion on a server, make the raid .01% more difficult which would gradually tick back down for each end fight fail. Although I'm sure that would open up a giant can of worms.

Make it truly a challenge so I can find value with all the past lives and gear grinding I've done over all these years.

Thanks!

[Graskitch]

Congratulations! We've pulled a fresh set of numbers today after reading a lot of raid talk over the weekend, and ahead of tomorrow's likely patch, here are the numbers:

Generally dozens or more of Normal completions on almost every server. Eight Legendary Hard completions on Ghallanda. One LH completion on Khyber. Two LH completions on Sarlona. No Legendary Elite completions recorded.

.. I contributed absolutely nothing to those numbers, in fact - I probably lower the # of legendary raid completions on Ghallanda, but SSG should definitely publish weekly raid completion leaderboards comparing the servers.



I feel like I should be saying yay omnipresence......... but yay ghallanda!

[HungarianRhapsody]

Generally dozens = wayfinder has 0.

Can't have 12 people in a raid if you have fewer than 12 people on the server...

[mikarddo]

.. I contributed absolutely nothing to those numbers, in fact - I probably lower the # of legendary raid completions on Ghallanda, but SSG should definitely publish weekly raid completion leaderboards comparing the servers.

I feel like I should be saying yay omnipresence......... but yay ghallanda!

This Sunday evening Euro time saw atleast 3 groups doing the raid on Ghallanda. Omni was running it (5 times I believe, 3 normal, 2 hard), Daars had a PUG doing it (unsure if they made it) and I was leading another PUG which made our very first completion.

But - atleast the PUG I was leading consisted of better and stronger players than the average PUG raid I have been leading twice a week (thurs+sunday) for a long while and we still only barely made it.

[Quikster]

If that were the case, they should enable casual difficulty for raids. There are plenty of normal completions. There shouldn't be an expectation to have that completion in the first day(s) or first runs.

Raids ought to be the pinnacle of all the playing experience, gear ground out, and relationships created for an actual completion. Not simply an extended quest with six more players to pile into, leaving little if any motivation to get better.

It seems that players being able to mindlessly and casually complete 99%+ of the existing content simply is not enough. With the self-entitled attitudes I've been seeing in these threads concerning the raid and now the nerfing, I'm now inclined to no longer post raid pugs and teach raids. I fail to see the point of doing so.

With the expansion pricing as it was, allowing every player to be entitled to every piece of gear, content, and experience, without putting in the time or proper prep work, makes better business sense. I can't fault them there. I do want SSG to make profit, hire quality talent and continue pushing out quality entertaining content.

However, having players of 6 months entitled to everything a 10 year veteran player is able to obtain is out of whack. How about an FTP raid, challenging even to endgame players which does not directly tie into transactions. Make the loot interesting, not necessarily game changing. Add unique cosmetics, pets, ingredient drops, raid timers, unique fun gear useful only in other raids perhaps.

With tomorrow's nerf and a couple more runs, I'll have all the gear I need from Too Hot to Handle and will likely relegate it back to just another raid that everyone else can zerg through making it nothing at all special.

I loved the idea of Killing Time and the retro raid ideas being implemented there. I think there was a missed opportunity by not adding more raid instances, as well as making those purely random. Imagine to find the end fight of a 40 minute raid being a random fight of any of a dozen previous raids. Or simply being teleported to the end fight of one of the other raids at an appropriate difficulty.

Perhaps a FTP raid as a king of all raids that can continually evolve with the game and not be held back by consumer complaints feeling entitled to more for their hard earned dollars. Recouping the costs of development should be with the player's added TR grinds and the resources purchased toward them, as well as raid timers being purchased. Maybe even extend the raid wait time by more than 3 days if you have to. Another option might be, for each completion on a server, make the raid .01% more difficult which would gradually tick back down for each end fight fail. Although I'm sure that would open up a giant can of worms.

Make it truly a challenge so I can find value with all the past lives and gear grinding I've done over all these years.

Thanks!

I’m ok with this so long as it’s marketed as such up front. This was not such. Give us a very challenging raid, marketed as such, with the chance to drop some killer min/max loot but not game breaking. Then people who know they aren’t going to be able to complete don’t have to buy it.

[Odysseus2011]

Omnipresence from the posted completions I've seen.

As of that posting the LH completions on Ghallanda are probably broken down as such; 4-5 Omnipresence, 2 Helter Skelter, 1-2 a semi static group.

[Shadow_Jumper]

This Sunday evening Euro time saw atleast 3 groups doing the raid on Ghallanda. Omni was running it (5 times I believe, 3 normal, 2 hard), Daars had a PUG doing it (unsure if they made it) and I was leading another PUG which made our very first completion.

But - atleast the PUG I was leading consisted of better and stronger players than the average PUG raid I have been leading twice a week (thurs+sunday) for a long while and we still only barely made it.

Good stuff. No wonder it was so laggy in there, looks like there was 4 groups running around the same time, and sounds like they all completed.

[Clemeit]

All players (even casuals) should be able to be in a group that can complete it on Normal.

There are 12 other difficulty settings to make it challenging to the non-casuals.

I disagree completely. But the argument is invalid because they already can. Just finished pugging it. Put up a post, took the first 11 players to apply - 2 of which were completely new to the raid - and we completed.

First try.

11 minutes.

For the hardest raid in the game.

Three (3) named items dropped.

If there's anything wrong with this picture it's that an 11-minute raid can drop some of the best items in the game for people who've never ever ran it before. Wish they'd make it harder. Casual players should not be able to stroll through a game's most difficult content - regardless of difficulty - unless normal yielded absolutely no named loot. Then fine.

[Zeleron]

I disagree completely. But the argument is invalid because they already can. Just finished pugging it. Put up a post, took the first 11 players to apply - 2 of which were completely new to the raid - and we completed.

First try.

11 minutes.

For the hardest raid in the game.

Three (3) named items dropped.

If there's anything wrong with this picture it's that an 11-minute raid can drop some of the best items in the game for people who've never ever ran it before. Wish they'd make it harder. Casual players should not be able to stroll through a game's most difficult content - regardless of difficulty - unless normal yielded absolutely no named loot. Then fine.

If you really want to convince people you pugged it, should show a screenshot of 1: The group. 2: proof you didnt just say in a raiding channel lfm going up for it 3: your /quest completions for Too hot to handle.

[Seph1roth5]

Congratulations! We've pulled a fresh set of numbers today after reading a lot of raid talk over the weekend, and ahead of tomorrow's likely patch, here are the numbers:

Generally dozens or more of Normal completions on almost every server. Eight Legendary Hard completions on Ghallanda. One LH completion on Khyber. Two LH completions on Sarlona. No Legendary Elite completions recorded.

Hey Cordovon how about some numbers on other raids? It'd be interesting to see # of VoN vs. # of heroic tempest spine and such. Ooooh in chart form!

[HouseAtreides]

Congratulations! We've pulled a fresh set of numbers today after reading a lot of raid talk over the weekend, and ahead of tomorrow's likely patch, here are the numbers:

Generally dozens or more of Normal completions on almost every server. Eight Legendary Hard completions on Ghallanda. One LH completion on Khyber. Two LH completions on Sarlona. No Legendary Elite completions recorded.

You're SURE about that elite number being zero...?

I am glad the raid will be more accessible to PUGs on normal. All raids should have a chance of completion on normal.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

At first I was like......



but then, I was like, yeah.... Too Hot Too Handle is difficult but there are a few things in it being nerfed that shouldn't be nerfed.

[Loromir]

Don't find this to be true at all. Already seen plenty of PUGs complete - was in one today. But even it it were true, I still have no problem with that. Not everyone can complete the most difficult raid in the game? Alright.

Unfortunately those dozens of normal completions (even by pugs) were probably by the top 10% of the players on each server. The remaining 90% are left reading about it here on the forums or watching it on Twitch/Youtube.

I paid for this content...yet I don't have the time to farm for the best in slot gear and past lives to be good enough to contribute meaningfully in the raid as it stands now. Therefore those LFM's where the leader says "Filtering" (which happens alot) are going to exclude me all together.

Them making Normal and Hard easier...give me hope that I might actually get to play the content I paid for and actually have hope for completion.

The real issue here is that you must be among the top 10% (I mean that as a compliment...by the way) and you're not interested in seeing the masses join your little exclusive club. If I'm wrong and you just want it to remain a challenge for you...there is always LE and R1-R10. That is 11 difficulty levels that I will (and the rest of the 90%)never be a part of. Those 11 levels of difficulty can still be your exclusive club without any fear of the feeble masses invading.

[banjo174]

Opening up the casual difficulty for raids would have been a much better solution. Since all the whiners are just complaining about not being able to play through the content they paid for. Just give them their casual difficulty. Since they are just a bunch of casuals.

[Arkat]

Opening up the casual difficulty for raids would have been a much better solution. Since all the whiners are just complaining about not being able to play through the content they paid for. Just give them their casual difficulty. Since they are just a bunch of casuals.

So 1% chance for raid loot on Casual difficulty or would you really stick it to the dirty casuals and give them a FULL 0% chance?