To Hot To Handle Difficulty

[Shadow_Jumper]

300 fire dmg vs 600-700 evil hmmz, If I was building around this raid (I wont), the fire portion would be the easiest part to manage.

I honestly have no reason to doubt that fire makes up most of the damage. I presume Torc meant overall base damage when he was describing the amounts. There are a LOT more ways to reduce fire damage than there are evil damage.

going by the 80% and 20%, and using the damage numbers you gave; Lets assume base Fire damage is 4800, and base evil damage is 1200.

Only MRR affects Evil right now (unless you have the raid shield), IDK what your MRR is, but mine is 100, so that would be .5, making that 1200 = 600

Now the fire damage.

53% Artifact Absorb
50% Sheathe
50% MRR
9% from Arcane PLs

gets down to 578.

I also have a HGS item i use sometimes, that gets it down to 354

[MeliCat]

Yes, the intention with these changes is to open the raid to more people on Normal, and probably also open up higher difficulties to a still challenging but doable state. That DDO's raiding community still hasn't completed the raid on Elite says something, after all.

Oh good. I do like how raiding can be inclusive and you get to meet all sorts of people in DDO and give everyone a chance to be in on it. This raid though is not really puggable even on normal right now though. So this change is welcome. Do hope you keep the higher difficulties - and maybe add an incentive like a unique item (same as say the cube pet for FOT/CITW) - to push those that need that extra smackdown to keep them on their toes

[Epitome]

...

...

9% from Arcane PLs

....

With another 3% possible in the future.

[AmrothTheGrey]

As a long time VIP player, I do not believe that the few who want this 'challenge' represent the larger community. Without changes to lower the standard difficulties, this raid will be inaccessible to everyone that I play with regularly. Since we have a small guild, all of our raids must be done with PUGs. For those who feel they need a challenge, that is what high reaper is for. The rest of us want to have fun and don't need to have our egos stroked.

Please just lower the difficulty so we can have fun playing this raid.

[Shadow_Jumper]

With another 3% possible in the future.

Yea. And keep in mind, this was just reductions that a non-tank may have. An actual tank is looking at additional effects such as:

Divine EPL: 30%
US Stance: 30%
MirrorPlate: 15%
Energy Absorb T4 Shiradi: 15%
Filigree Setup: 5/5/5%
300+ MRR: 75%

Those benefits would reduce the evil damage to 300, and the fire damage to something like 80.

[kain741]

In the 25 or so completions we have finished on Normal, 90% were completed with massive lag spikes at the end. In numerous cases we reset the raid on the first fights because it is unplayable. We have now lost interest in pursuing it on harder difficulties because of the constant lag wipes. When you fix that we will be back.

I have mentioned this before in other threads and is ignored. Having multiple reds on the board which is all but necessary to keep dps on boss in phase three means there is substantial lag. This performance issue needs to be addressed to give parties time and opportunity to explore and try different strategies.

[kain741]

As a long time VIP player, I do not believe that the few who want this 'challenge' represent the larger community. Without changes to lower the standard difficulties, this raid will be inaccessible to everyone that I play with regularly. Since we have a small guild, all of our raids must be done with PUGs. For those who feel they need a challenge, that is what high reaper is for. The rest of us want to have fun and don't need to have our egos stroked.

Please just lower the difficulty so we can have fun playing this raid.

There is not anything difficult about EN. There are lots of videos out there that will show you exactly how to do it. These are generally done in 10-15 mins often with no one dying (if you pug you may have a few). Just follow the mechanics of the raid...the damage is not high in EN if you just do the raid as intended.
All the challenge is in LH+ due to constraints that aren't in LN...I do repeat though, there is nothing that keeps a pug from doing the raid on LN if you communicate and each person does their job.

[Anuulified]

What if during the raid when you get the message about being called into the lava or whatever, you are supposed to jump in to stop wraith spawns?

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

This raid was designed to push our raiding community harder, and to shake up things. To see what life would be like if Elite first completion was something that might not happen day one of release.

I have seen that elsewhere, too.
Long ago, in SWTOR, the vocal minority of raiders, who had been filling the forums months with talk about "there is no challenge anymore" "we need a new raid !" "we want a challenge !" "we want some HARD content !" got what they wanted.
What happened ? Only a very few clearings at all, none in the highest difficulty mode, a few voices saying "this is too hard for the mass of raiders (and especially for PUGs"), and these 2 raids getting a nerf, finally. That vocal minority became silent, or boasted with having been "world firsts". Some of them even disbanded/dissolved after the nerf.

I don't recall having read even one apologising for nudging the devs into a raid that was not good for the overall community, and good only for a select few raiders.

[Arkat]

I have seen that elsewhere, too.
Long ago, in SWTOR, the vocal minority of raiders, who had been filling the forums months with talk about "there is no challenge anymore" "we need a new raid !" "we want a challenge !" "we want some HARD content !" got what they wanted.
What happened ? Only a very few clearings at all, none in the highest difficulty mode, a few voices saying "this is too hard for the mass of raiders (and especially for PUGs"), and these 2 raids getting a nerf, finally. That vocal minority became silent, or boasted with having been "world firsts". Some of them even disbanded/dissolved after the nerf.

I don't recall having read even one apologising for nudging the devs into a raid that was not good for the overall community, and good only for a select few raiders.

I'm not familiar with SWTOR. Did their raids have various difficulty settings like DDO raids and dungeons do?

I would think that would be an important consideration if you compare the two situations (DDO vs SWTOR).

[entropyspinner]

I for one am glad with what is going on with the raid with it being too challenging for the majority of the players, without having them step up their game. I never felt that a player of six months should be entitled to all the most powerful items, perks and experiences of those that have been playing for ten or even five years, or even two years. I feel that player still having access and a practically guaranteed chance of completion to the over 99% of the rest of the DDO content is more than generous.

This is an MMO. If you want to get something accomplished, work with your server community. I never felt that twelve self-avowed soloists should be able to complete a raid, though it's not far from the truth for many of the other raids. I'm not buying the too small of a guild or not enough LFMs arguments. Looking purely at mechanics to get something done is just not enough. Find more depth in your solutions and with the people you choose. Do not be afraid to communicate. This will help you grow. This raid is completely puggable. I have helped PUGs even to completion.

Aside from that, do the time. Get some past lives. There is a reason why past lives are available. Or stay at end-game for a while if all you ever do is TR. End-game has different thought processes than your repetitive xp grinds.

Why is it others can complete on normal, even with a PUG, and you can't? The raid is not the problem, it's likely you being the problem. Evolve, change, adapt, and prepare. I find Inquisitive an exceedingly useful and powerful complement to this raid, yet I have incredible difficulty finding any outside my guild when I post a PUG. This is also the D&D way. In tabletop play you have to think through your next moves otherwise you may be rerolling new characters. This raid edges closer to that way of thinking, in this case failing to complete.

I will be disappointed if the developers give in and nerf it six months from now.

Thank you.

[Michaelaz2]

Such as?

Such as in 1st part not spawning a wraith behind the walls and making the portal unable to open

Sorry but but IMHO with poor loot tables theres ZERO reason to run this raid. Perhaps if the risk reward was there but at this time its simply a waste of time for no loot on normal

[Dark_Helmet]

Yes, the intention with these changes is to open the raid to more people on Normal, and probably also open up higher difficulties to a still challenging but doable state. That DDO's raiding community still hasn't completed the raid on Elite says something, after all.

Honestly, guildies just complain about the lag spikes. Lag which also impacts people in other quests, on the ship or other non combat zones for seconds to minutes (client times out).

I can't wait to hear how it is with EiN nerf (since that is the most powerful ability that also causes lag ).

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I do not consider myself a casual player.
However, I will never be at the top tear of power level in this game.

Various reasons...

Also, I do not have a like-minded guild that will ever tackle any difficult raid. (or difficult difficulty, etc.)

Only raids I have found that I can do with friends are those we are either so far above level it is meaningless (and therefore my friends don't want to do them.) or the easiest of the easy. (like Legendary Tempest Spine)…

My only hope is to find the rare PUG.
Which doesn't really exist for most raids... especially anything difficult.... or long.


I would love a casual raid setting. That would allow me and others to actually complete some of these raids.
Preferably with some chance to eventually get some raid loot. (after all, gotta do the raids to get the loot to be able to do the raids…)
But right now, I'd settle for just being able to do them without a chance f raid loot/runes etc. Cause right now it is content I just have no hope of ever completing.

Sad....

[darkmoon_cn]

we doing 2 times LH THTH,tonight

[Epicstorms]

Agreed with rebalancing the raid so that also the weaker players can have fun.

Those people that are unhappy with "nerfs" can just increase the difficulty. You're not affected.

[janave]

After some more tries, certainly workable with the right party, but it requires massive investment if not playing one of the supported classes, re-gearing/re-speccing a character specifically for this single raid is not really worth it.

I could cripple my main to do significantly better at the raid then drop from quest r5-6 runs to r1... due to the loss of efficiency.

One of the biggest advantages in this raid is motor reflex, which you cant develop until you fail a bunch of times. As every second is really meaningful. Not to mention DPS checks are kinda off for the average pugger.

[Alled78]

Iwas able to reach my first ln completion yesterday after 10 11 wipes.
Me and my group loved the challenge of this raid

As for normal pls dont nerf the mechanics
All you shoul correct is the damage.


Havent played hard yet

[MaeveTuohy]

Just had my first run of the raid.

We had a strong team of experienced pug raiders. The team leader had run it a few times before, including prior to the update.

It was fun, and a decent length for what it was.

We completed without a death.

It was a good training level of difficulty in my opinion. I think the devs nailed it with their re-scale.

Looking forward to trying it on hard.

[Clemeit]

We completed without a death.

For the "hardest" raid in the game that's a serious issue.

It was a good training level of difficulty in my opinion.

Except it's not. Named loot still drops. We got 3 named items drop in a normal run the other day. For absolutely no work.

Excuse me. For 9 minutes of "work" I mean.