2019 ED Pass: Primal Sphere

[Steelstar]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

• First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
• Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
  
  • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.
  
  
• Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)

Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Primal Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

Fury of the Wild
This is a Pretty Good destiny in its current state, but not enough Melees found reason to stick with this one vs. Dreadnought. We'd especially like Two Handed Fighters to hang out here, so we added some spice for them. Please note that "Two Handed Fighting Style" does not include Natural Weapon Style (aka Wolves, Bears, Trees).

• Cores each add an additional +2 Damage with Two-Handed Weapons (along with what they currently do)
• Fury made Placid is reduced to a 2% chance on no save. Healing scales with Melee Power. Gain +10% Doublestrike and +20 PRR and MRR while in this state.
• Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging. (Keeps its 5 minute cooldown).
• You can now use Unbridled Fury while under Antimagic.
• NEW: T1: (Multiselector with Boulder Toss): Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
• NEW: T5: Devastating Blow (+1 Critical Multiplier on 19-20 with Melee weapons) (1 Rank, 2AP)
• NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)

Primal Avatar
This is another Fairly Weird tree. There's things we didn't hit that I'd still like to (the complex spell that is Tsunami, in particular) but the primary thing we tried to do was to make it more accessible and less frustrating by eliminating the Spirit Charge mechanic. Before, it was very difficult to perform well in this tree if you couldn't min-max Spirit regeneration; that should no longer be a concern. Tree Form still isn't amazing, but that's unfortunately something that'll need to get addressed another time. (At the very least, you should get to use it more reliably and longer in most cases).

• Spirit Charges no longer exist in this tree.
• Strength of Spirit is now a Passive granting +20 Universal Spell Power. (The tree still grants +10 Melee and +4 Ranged Power per core).
• Primal Travel no longer costs Spirit, and now has a 90 second cooldown.
• Mighty Among Spirits no longer reduces Spirit Decay (as Spirit no longer exists), and instead grants +15 MRR (in addition to the +20 HP it currently gives).
• Eternal Return no longer costs Spirit.
• Walk With Spirits is no longer a toggle. On activation, you gain its effects for 30 seconds. It now has a 4 minute cooldown.
• Spirit Boon (both versions) no longer requires Spirit.
• Avatar of Nature no longer requires Spirit. Each of its Sizes now lasts for 6 seconds, except for the largest, which lasts for 12 and then shuts off the Form. It now has a 5 minute cooldown.
• Summer Smoke, Supple as Spring, and Chill of Winter are now applied more efficiently, should cause fewer performance issues, and should no longer get stuck on players - Like Bard Auras, the effects are re-applied every few seconds and expire after some time. These now only apply to party members (sorry, this was important for performance reasons).

Shiradi Champion
This tree is alright for casters and not great for ranged characters in its current state. A lot of the Bow users are pulled over by Fury right now, so we gave it a bit of that power to make Shiradi a more viable choice for them. We don't want to take Fury away from bow-users entirely (or Shiradi away from casters), just to make Shiradi a viable choice for ranged weapon characters.

• The first five cores (replacing their existing attack/damage bonuses) add +1 to hit and damage with ranged weapons.
• Favorable Winds and Fey Power scale with 200% Ranged Power.
• Stay Frosty's cold damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Stay Frosty now passively provides its +3/+6 Spot and Listen
• Stay Good's light damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Rainbow's random damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Added clarifying language to Double Rainbow to indicate that its effects may scale with Melee, Ranged, or Spell Power depending on the origin of effects it finds.
• Whirling Wrists also grants +2/4/6% Doubleshot.
• Wild Shots scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Rain of Arrows no longer requires charging.
• Rain of Arrows now has a 3-minute cooldown.
• Rain of Arrows' damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Rain of Arrows now costs 1AP.
• Rain of Arrows' tooltip now properly reflects its 20% of application per second (previously read 10%).
• Tea With the Queen now costs 1AP.
• Track also debuffs fortification by 2% per stack
• Stand & Deliver now alson grants +1mult on 19-20 with Ranged weapons
• In The Weeds adds +3 PRR and +3 MRR per stack.
• NEW: Horizon Shot (T6): Your next shot with a Ranged or Thrown weapon has +400% damage and +16 to its Critical Threat Range. 30 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)

[Hobgoblin]

lots of good stuff here



on the tree form - so its not getting better yet but still being looked at yes?

[Yamani]

[*]NEW: Horizon Shot (T6): Your next shot with a Ranged or Thrown weapon has +400% damage and +16 to its Critical Threat Range. 30 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)[/LIST]

30 seconds for this ability is quite a long cooldown if you are trying to attract ranged away from Fury. Especially with the new change to unbridled being used more often.
Adrenaline has a 5 second cooldown with 7 charges yes, but if played right the recharge rate for ranged with IPS is quite high. Even a single fight can give them all 7 charges back. This is also a core ability not a Tier 6.
Unbridled uses adrenaline every 3 seconds for 30 seconds-5 min cooldown. With this being the Tier 6 ability. you are still getting 10 uses max + the 7 charges of adrenaline. While for the 30 second cooldown you could essentially use Horizon shot 10 max for 5 minutes.

Edit: Also the final core of Deepwood is also called Horizon Shot.

[Arkbusya]

Nice changes, destiny reflect more what they are tied to...
except that now...
A first life pure tempest is stuck in shiradi where there is always no things for him ...
Maybe you forget that ranger are not all distant user .

[Zeleron]

Nice changes, destiny reflect more what they are tied to...
except that now...
A first life pure tempest is stuck in shiradi where there is always no things for him ...
Maybe you forget that ranger are not all distant user .

All the 2 weapon fighting stuff is in primal avatar, I'm not sure why they should choose shiradi over primal.

[Grailhawk]

Fury of the Wild
This is a Pretty Good destiny in its current state, but not enough Melees found reason to stick with this one vs. Dreadnought. We'd especially like Two Handed Fighters to hang out here, so we added some spice for them. Please note that "Two Handed Fighting Style" does not include Natural Weapon Style (aka Wolves, Bears, Trees).

• Cores each add an additional +2 Damage with Two-Handed Weapons (along with what they currently do)
• Fury made Placid is reduced to a 2% chance on no save. Healing scales with Melee Power. Gain +10% Doublestrike and +20 PRR and MRR while in this state.
• Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging. (Keeps its 5 minute cooldown).
• You can now use Unbridled Fury while under Antimagic.
• NEW: T1: (Multiselector with Boulder Toss): Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
• NEW: T5: Devastating Blow (+1 Critical Multiplier on 19-20 with Melee weapons) (1 Rank, 2AP)
• NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)

I think you may want to add a 5-10% alacrity bonus to THF, in Devastating Blow.

I know you're not adding new abilities but if you ever find the time a Great Cleave like attack that has all the Adrenaline buffs and effects would go far, this should be on a long cooldown 60-90 seconds.

[Tist]

on the tree form - so its not getting better yet but still being looked at yes?

Based on para 3 and the sentence about tree form I would say no.

[btolson]

Shiradi Champion
This tree is alright for casters and not great for ranged characters in its current state. A lot of the Bow users are pulled over by Fury right now, so we gave it a bit of that power to make Shiradi a more viable choice for them. We don't want to take Fury away from bow-users entirely (or Shiradi away from casters), just to make Shiradi a viable choice for ranged weapon characters.

• The first five cores (replacing their existing attack/damage bonuses) add +1 to hit and damage with ranged weapons.
• Favorable Winds and Fey Power scale with 200% Ranged Power.
• Stay Frosty's cold damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Stay Frosty now passively provides its +3/+6 Spot and Listen
• Stay Good's light damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Rainbow's random damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Added clarifying language to Double Rainbow to indicate that its effects may scale with Melee, Ranged, or Spell Power depending on the origin of effects it finds.
• Whirling Wrists also grants +2/4/6% Doubleshot.
• Wild Shots scales with 200% Ranged Power.

Hopefully this all means, "scales with the greater of 100% spellpower or 200% ranged power" or this destiny is dead for casters.

Also, this tree has a reaper-specific problem. Rainbow can deal positive damage, which is not penalized the way other damage types are. Thus, in higher reaper you end up seeing damage procs in the 50-100 or so range, followed by healing your enemy with positive energy for 2k, wiping out a very substantial amount of time you spent DPSing it. Unless something is done about this, the tree will remain pretty dead for anyone playing reaper. Either omit positive from the selection of damage types, or have it considered a self-heal on the target so it's subject to reaper penalties. Such a massive disparity between damage and healing procs was not envisioned when this ability was first created. Accidentally healing your target is fine and thematic... so long as it's not 20x more powerful than the damage procs.

[lyrecono]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

• First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
• Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
  
  • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.
  
  
• Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)

Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Primal Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

Fury of the Wild
This is a Pretty Good destiny in its current state, but not enough Melees found reason to stick with this one vs. Dreadnought. We'd especially like Two Handed Fighters to hang out here, so we added some spice for them. Please note that "Two Handed Fighting Style" does not include Natural Weapon Style (aka Wolves, Bears, Trees).

• Cores each add an additional +2 Damage with Two-Handed Weapons (along with what they currently do)
• Fury made Placid is reduced to a 2% chance on no save. Healing scales with Melee Power. Gain +10% Doublestrike and +20 PRR and MRR while in this state.
• Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging. (Keeps its 5 minute cooldown).
• You can now use Unbridled Fury while under Antimagic.
• NEW: T1: (Multiselector with Boulder Toss): Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
• NEW: T5: Devastating Blow (+1 Critical Multiplier on 19-20 with Melee weapons) (1 Rank, 2AP)
• NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)

[B]

First:
The reason why people don't use Fury on a melee and are stuck with a broken ED like Legendary dreadnought is because Adreneline doesn't replenish fast enough with 2 handers.
(Lay waste's knockdown dc doesn't benefit from items or class abilities, Balance DC (10 + Character Level + Strength Modifier), thanks to poor balancing, it becommes useless mid epics)
For an ED with a great axe icon, it works 10 times better with ranged combat, due to their ridicules attack speed and working doubleshot (wich is still broken with 2hf, still no doublestrike), they regain adrenaline much faster.
Add in that glancing blows, well, quite frankly, blow in reaper, the Unbridled Fury Epic Moment is mostly wasted.

as for the changes:
+2 damage with 2 handed weapons, does that include dwarven axes and bastard swords?
Gain +10% Doublestrike, what for? it doesn't work with 2 handers, especially since you have done the effort to put in extra damage for 2handers in the cores.

it's a nice idea but with 2hf being bugged up the @rse, these changes won't do didly squat. it will still be mostly used by archers.
in order to fix this, glancing blows should be allowed to crit, thus get vorpals and thus regain adrenaline charges
Also, double strike, if you'd fix that, more vorpals might come through and help recharge adrenaline

and more important, don't allow ranged attacks to recharge adrenaline, the ED has a greataxe for an icon for crying out loud!

[Mindos]

Fury of the Wild

• Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging. (Keeps its 5 minute cooldown).

Please retain the "While Unbridled Fury isn't active, You gain 1 Fury each time you vorpal with a melee or ranged attack (roll a natural 20 and confirm the critical hit)."

Note that this is important because it is an improvement from the Fury Eternal one tier below it, which gives 1 Fury on a 33% chance when vorpal.

You scare me with this "time limit" talk. You set the field, you make the rules, you determine how we interact with you. Telling us you are in a rush, you will remain in a rush, you didn't get everything done you wanted, and by the way there's limited time to listen and even more limited time to make any actionable feedback starting.... now! -Kind of lowers my confidence.

I mentioned the Unbridled Fury benefit above because it's a feature of the Epic Moment that you didn't address. Now we could assume that 100% recharge on vorpal isn't changing, but I would rather have it stated clearly, for every change made, what is and what is not different. Instead, we, the dear players, have to guess that a totally reworked epic moment in any particular destiny, while being benificial because now it doesn't need charges, also retains its passive benefits, such as Unbridled's vorpal charge at 100% instead of 33%.

TL;DR You (as a company, not you as S.R.) make rapid changes, and tend not to revist until years have passed. Short, rather brief windows of direct interaction with the playbase (and usually only the forum dwelling ones) tends not to inspire confidence, but instead doubt. Give the players reassurances by removing lingering doubts they WILL have about their builds. For example, some people built very specialized Tree form builds, which got nerfed. You mention you would like to make more changes to Tree form, but don't say what they are. We are left without the design goal of tree form, the balances and trade offs, and can't give any useful, or indeed any at all feedback about it since we don't know what your cost/benefit long term desire of the Tree form and Primal Avatar is.

Second TL;DR

1. You nerfed Tree form before, so what the heck do you want it to be anyway?
2. Are the uber Epic Moments that you ARE changing going to retain their passive benefits like Unbridleds 100% vorpal rate, etc?

[janave]

Shiradi Champion does less for archers than throwers ( and now xbows) although the theme and description suggests otherwise. Just saying. The T6 is nice, it is exactly what I would have done. Fury is still a better choice overall for bows at least, where static DPS relative to other ranged weapon builds is low.

[DaviMOC]

Liking to see some love for 2hf but its too timid to convice people to give up all the t5/t6 and the last core enhancment and its extra defenses from LD for this. I would say its hardly comparable to divine crusader with all the defense/self healing and improved critical profile you get there. As for the actives as good as it may look, the supposed main class to use this ( guess a barbarian) already have enough that its already annoying to use LD cleaves and also use barbarian cleaves and atacks. Cant see much use for new ones on FoTW.


EDit.: ALso, if you planning to keep the actives, why not making it all cleave attacks? Isnt that the stereotype for 2HF? Cant see it hurting balance as we usually are forced to single target on higher difficulty content and dont make the character stop moving when it uses it!

[whoolsey]

i have to agree with the 2hf comments, doublestrike doesn't work and even with glancing blows, you never regain charges fast enough to get close to LD, untill it is fixed, this ED is useless for 2hf melees

Fury could also use 1 or 2 points of extra dr 1/- (the barb one)

[byzantinebobby]

I don't know if you can do anything about it, but my first life was a Ranged Artificer. However, I could only pick the Arcane Sphere to start my destiny. As such, I had to wade through a lot of stuff to get over to Shiradi. By the time I did, I was almost done with the life. It's a little late for me now, but I can't be the only one who wanted to start off with a crossbow. Is it possible to give first life Artificers a chance to pick either the Arcane Sphere OR Shiradi?

[Carpone]

I would think a 20 Ranger Tempest is the intended target for Primal Avatar. However, there's zero reason for me to choose Primal Avatar over Legendary Dreadnought:

• 1: +28 more Melee Power in LD with Blitz active. It's easy to sustain Blitz once it's active.
  2. +40 more HP in LD from cores. LD also has option of +CON enhancements if you're not STR based.
  3: +1[W] more in LD from cores.
  4: -33% cool down on action boosts in LD, which is huge for the Prowess 5pc bonus.
  5: Additional critical multiplier in LD for and axes, and additional crit threat range for bludgeon.

Primal Avatar needs some parity with those abilities for a Tempest to consider it. Otherwise I'll just continue to twist Symmetric Strikes and Balanced Attacks from Primal Avatar and remain in LD. Please consider:

• 1: Increase Melee Power in the cores, or add Melee Power to something non-twistable (Chill of Winter passive) for LD parity.
  2: Provide +1% HP in each Primal Avatar core, or add the equivalent +% HP to Spirit Boon. For a 1400 HP level-30 melee toon that's 84 HP, a net of 44 HP over LD.
  3: Instead of matching +1[W] in the cores when unarmed, TWF or natural fighting, perhaps add a size bonus to damage (Unique, so it stacks with Ram's Might).
  4: Nothing I suggest can match Action Hero -- it's just that over-the-top good. Perhaps a core or Spirit Boon could also regenerate action boosts.
  5: Instead of adding more crit multipliers with the limited T5/T6 enhancements, perhaps provide double strike bonuses (and accompanying spell crit chance for casters) in the cores.

Would be nice to see:

• Add passive run speed passive (10% Action Boost) to one of the T4 enhancements (Summon Dryad Elder or Autumn Harvest) or the cores. Even with 30% Striding equipped, Rangers are slow moving.

[Steelstar]

i have to agree with the 2hf comments, doublestrike doesn't work and even with glancing blows, you never regain charges fast enough to get close to LD

Currently considering adding something to the tree where your Vorpal range is doubled with Two Handers; this would mean you Vorpal twice as often, and recover charges significantly more quickly than before. We can continue tweaking from there.

[whoolsey]

Currently considering adding something to the tree where your Vorpal range is doubled with Two Handers; this would mean you Vorpal twice as often, and recover charges significantly more quickly than before. We can continue tweaking from there.

is 2hf ever going to be fixed though?

(glancing blows don't get doublestrike or crits, neither does 2hf/cleaves)

because if you do fix it, are you then nerfing the vorpal range?
or does this mean that 2hf will never be fixed?

[btolson]

Hopefully this all means, "scales with the greater of 100% spellpower or 200% ranged power" or this destiny is dead for casters.

Also, this tree has a reaper-specific problem. Rainbow can deal positive damage, which is not penalized the way other damage types are. Thus, in higher reaper you end up seeing damage procs in the 50-100 or so range, followed by healing your enemy with positive energy for 2k, wiping out a very substantial amount of time you spent DPSing it. Unless something is done about this, the tree will remain pretty dead for anyone playing reaper. Either omit positive from the selection of damage types, or have it considered a self-heal on the target so it's subject to reaper penalties. Such a massive disparity between damage and healing procs was not envisioned when this ability was first created. Accidentally healing your target is fine and thematic... so long as it's not 20x more powerful than the damage procs.

Oh, Rain of Arrows presumably has this Positive healing problem too. Whatever your solution is for Rainbow, copy it over to that too.

[Steelstar]

is 2hf ever going to be fixed though?

(glancing blows don't get doublestrike or crits, neither does 2hf/cleaves)

because if you do fix it, are you then nerfing the vorpal range?
or does this mean that 2hf will never be fixed?

I'll point you to this post from Cordovan earlier today:

I just wanted to say that we are aware of your concern about the number of attacks over time with Two-Handed fighting in particular, and are looking into some possible improvements. It's a bit early to provider further detail, however.

[Carpone]

or does this mean that 2hf will never be fixed?

There were known ED bugs that remained for 7 years. I wouldn't hold my breath about THF getting the revamp it needs anytime soon.