2019 ED Pass: Primal Sphere

[Steelstar]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

• First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
• Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
  
  • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.
  
  
• Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)

Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Primal Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

Fury of the Wild
This is a Pretty Good destiny in its current state, but not enough Melees found reason to stick with this one vs. Dreadnought. We'd especially like Two Handed Fighters to hang out here, so we added some spice for them. Please note that "Two Handed Fighting Style" does not include Natural Weapon Style (aka Wolves, Bears, Trees).

• Cores each add an additional +2 Damage with Two-Handed Weapons (along with what they currently do)
• Fury made Placid is reduced to a 2% chance on no save. Healing scales with Melee Power. Gain +10% Doublestrike and +20 PRR and MRR while in this state.
• Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging. (Keeps its 5 minute cooldown).
• You can now use Unbridled Fury while under Antimagic.
• NEW: T1: (Multiselector with Boulder Toss): Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
• NEW: T5: Devastating Blow (+1 Critical Multiplier on 19-20 with Melee weapons) (1 Rank, 2AP)
• NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)

Primal Avatar
This is another Fairly Weird tree. There's things we didn't hit that I'd still like to (the complex spell that is Tsunami, in particular) but the primary thing we tried to do was to make it more accessible and less frustrating by eliminating the Spirit Charge mechanic. Before, it was very difficult to perform well in this tree if you couldn't min-max Spirit regeneration; that should no longer be a concern. Tree Form still isn't amazing, but that's unfortunately something that'll need to get addressed another time. (At the very least, you should get to use it more reliably and longer in most cases).

• Spirit Charges no longer exist in this tree.
• Strength of Spirit is now a Passive granting +20 Universal Spell Power. (The tree still grants +10 Melee and +4 Ranged Power per core).
• Primal Travel no longer costs Spirit, and now has a 90 second cooldown.
• Mighty Among Spirits no longer reduces Spirit Decay (as Spirit no longer exists), and instead grants +15 MRR (in addition to the +20 HP it currently gives).
• Eternal Return no longer costs Spirit.
• Walk With Spirits is no longer a toggle. On activation, you gain its effects for 30 seconds. It now has a 4 minute cooldown.
• Spirit Boon (both versions) no longer requires Spirit.
• Avatar of Nature no longer requires Spirit. Each of its Sizes now lasts for 6 seconds, except for the largest, which lasts for 12 and then shuts off the Form. It now has a 5 minute cooldown.
• Summer Smoke, Supple as Spring, and Chill of Winter are now applied more efficiently, should cause fewer performance issues, and should no longer get stuck on players - Like Bard Auras, the effects are re-applied every few seconds and expire after some time. These now only apply to party members (sorry, this was important for performance reasons).

Shiradi Champion
This tree is alright for casters and not great for ranged characters in its current state. A lot of the Bow users are pulled over by Fury right now, so we gave it a bit of that power to make Shiradi a more viable choice for them. We don't want to take Fury away from bow-users entirely (or Shiradi away from casters), just to make Shiradi a viable choice for ranged weapon characters.

• The first five cores (replacing their existing attack/damage bonuses) add +1 to hit and damage with ranged weapons.
• Favorable Winds and Fey Power scale with 200% Ranged Power.
• Stay Frosty's cold damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Stay Frosty now passively provides its +3/+6 Spot and Listen
• Stay Good's light damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Rainbow's random damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Added clarifying language to Double Rainbow to indicate that its effects may scale with Melee, Ranged, or Spell Power depending on the origin of effects it finds.
• Whirling Wrists also grants +2/4/6% Doubleshot.
• Wild Shots scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Rain of Arrows no longer requires charging.
• Rain of Arrows now has a 3-minute cooldown.
• Rain of Arrows' damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Rain of Arrows now costs 1AP.
• Rain of Arrows' tooltip now properly reflects its 20% of application per second (previously read 10%).
• Tea With the Queen now costs 1AP.
• Track also debuffs fortification by 2% per stack
• Stand & Deliver now alson grants +1mult on 19-20 with Ranged weapons
• In The Weeds adds +3 PRR and +3 MRR per stack.
• NEW: Horizon Shot (T6): Your next shot with a Ranged or Thrown weapon has +400% damage and +16 to its Critical Threat Range. 30 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)

[Hobgoblin]

lots of good stuff here



on the tree form - so its not getting better yet but still being looked at yes?

[Tist]

on the tree form - so its not getting better yet but still being looked at yes?

Based on para 3 and the sentence about tree form I would say no.

[LightBear]

Fury of the wild:
Can understand you want two handers to hang out there but would like to see the inclusiveness of the hand and a half weapons like dwarven axe and bstarsword.
Isn't this one of the trees also used by some ranged builds? (You say so yourself 3 paragraphes down anyway.) Missing some love for them explicitly added for them.

Primal avatar:
Tree animation sucks but that prob is besides the feedback you are looking for, the new limeting timer is to short and the cooldown to long. Like both are waaaaaay off mostly due to the poor animation GFX of the transitions which seem to take up all 6 second of each form which leaves no time to attack.
Walk with spirits is out of whack number wise compared to other things that do the "same", 30 sec duration is ok but cooldown then should be 60 secs with the given specs.

Shiradi:
This ED is nice for warlock and great for artificers, not so much for other casters, imho.
Can't wait to try it out on a diplomancer build.

Overall great work, hope fury remains valid for ranged characters and isn't accidently broken along the way for them.

[Chacka_DDO]

At first, Two-Handed-Fighting needs obviously a big overhaul and rebalance!

But for the Fury of the Wild destiny, I would foremost wish that Adrenaline is working for melee similar to how it works for bow users.
This means if you activate it, it should work on a cleave and it should also affect all grazing hits on your next swing with your Two-Handed Weapon!
This would make Fury of the Wild for melee as great fun as it is for archers.
And yes fun comes also from the power, the power has to be comparable and if one ability falls behind in power too much, it is just not much fun to use it anymore.
Maybe Adrenaline needs an increased cooldown time then or Unbridled Fury needs to be different too.
Maybe Unbridled Fury could be a lasting Adrenaline effect with only 200% more damage and not 400%.
And maybe Overwhelming Force needs to be different too then, e.g. only working 50% under the effect of adrenaline.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Really liking the changes to Shiradi, will be nice to still have the BOOM HEADSHOT option that I get running in fury (gxbow mechanic railgun is just FUN), but have more ranged power & not need to twist in pin & otto's, so I can have something else useful in those slots instead - ok, no more "burn it down" unbridled fury for room clearance/boss destruction but swings & roundabouts.

Oh hey, maybe "boom headshot" could be an alternative to the duplicate horizon shot name for that ability?

[Cantor]

Really liking the changes to Shiradi, will be nice to still have the BOOM HEADSHOT option that I get running in fury (gxbow mechanic railgun is just FUN), but have more ranged power & not need to twist in pin & otto's, so I can have something else useful in those slots instead - ok, no more "burn it down" unbridled fury for room clearance/boss destruction but swings & roundabouts.

Oh hey, maybe "boom headshot" could be an alternative to the duplicate horizon shot name for that ability?

headshot is also already used

[Aelonwy]

headshot is also already used

Fey Marksman (because Shiradi), I don't think Deadeye has been used either but perhaps that's more of a western term for Sharpshooter.

Are the devs even still reading these? I haven't seen a dev comment in this forum since the 6th and that was Martial destinies only. Sometimes I'd just like a "Still reading/digesting/making notes/discussing" comment.

[Yamani]

[*]NEW: Horizon Shot (T6): Your next shot with a Ranged or Thrown weapon has +400% damage and +16 to its Critical Threat Range. 30 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)[/LIST]

30 seconds for this ability is quite a long cooldown if you are trying to attract ranged away from Fury. Especially with the new change to unbridled being used more often.
Adrenaline has a 5 second cooldown with 7 charges yes, but if played right the recharge rate for ranged with IPS is quite high. Even a single fight can give them all 7 charges back. This is also a core ability not a Tier 6.
Unbridled uses adrenaline every 3 seconds for 30 seconds-5 min cooldown. With this being the Tier 6 ability. you are still getting 10 uses max + the 7 charges of adrenaline. While for the 30 second cooldown you could essentially use Horizon shot 10 max for 5 minutes.

Edit: Also the final core of Deepwood is also called Horizon Shot.

[Arkbusya]

Nice changes, destiny reflect more what they are tied to...
except that now...
A first life pure tempest is stuck in shiradi where there is always no things for him ...
Maybe you forget that ranger are not all distant user .

[Zeleron]

Nice changes, destiny reflect more what they are tied to...
except that now...
A first life pure tempest is stuck in shiradi where there is always no things for him ...
Maybe you forget that ranger are not all distant user .

All the 2 weapon fighting stuff is in primal avatar, I'm not sure why they should choose shiradi over primal.

[Arkbusya]

All the 2 weapon fighting stuff is in primal avatar, I'm not sure why they should choose shiradi over primal.

Perhaps because starting destiny is determine by your current class and a pure ranger tempest has no other choice than starting in epic with shiradi.
And all the 2wf is in primal avatar ?!? ... i see only 2 or 3 enhancement for 2wf in primal, this tree is dedicate to shapeshifter caster (aka druid).
someone else notice it and arrived at the same conclusion and post it but thanks to him, more developped than mine

[Grailhawk]

Perhaps because starting destiny is determine by your current class and a pure ranger tempest has no other choice than starting in epic with shiradi.
And all the 2wf is in primal avatar ?!? ... i see only 2 or 3 enhancement for 2wf in primal, this tree is dedicate to shapeshifter caster (aka druid).
someone else notice it and arrived at the same conclusion and post it but thanks to him, more developped than mine

Starting Sphere is determined by class not Destiny a Tempest Ranger can choose between any of the primal destinies as his first (Primal Avatar, Fury of the Wild, or Shiradi Champion)

Wiki

At level 20, your Destiny may be to become a Fury of the Wild if you have at least:

• No Active Epic Destiny and one of:
  
  • 6 levels of Barbarian
  • 6 levels of Ranger
  • 6 levels of Druid
• Tier Three Shiradi Champion
• Tier Three Primal Avatar

[Grailhawk]

Fury of the Wild
This is a Pretty Good destiny in its current state, but not enough Melees found reason to stick with this one vs. Dreadnought. We'd especially like Two Handed Fighters to hang out here, so we added some spice for them. Please note that "Two Handed Fighting Style" does not include Natural Weapon Style (aka Wolves, Bears, Trees).

• Cores each add an additional +2 Damage with Two-Handed Weapons (along with what they currently do)
• Fury made Placid is reduced to a 2% chance on no save. Healing scales with Melee Power. Gain +10% Doublestrike and +20 PRR and MRR while in this state.
• Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging. (Keeps its 5 minute cooldown).
• You can now use Unbridled Fury while under Antimagic.
• NEW: T1: (Multiselector with Boulder Toss): Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
• NEW: T5: Devastating Blow (+1 Critical Multiplier on 19-20 with Melee weapons) (1 Rank, 2AP)
• NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)

I think you may want to add a 5-10% alacrity bonus to THF, in Devastating Blow.

I know you're not adding new abilities but if you ever find the time a Great Cleave like attack that has all the Adrenaline buffs and effects would go far, this should be on a long cooldown 60-90 seconds.

[janave]

Shiradi Champion does less for archers than throwers ( and now xbows) although the theme and description suggests otherwise. Just saying. The T6 is nice, it is exactly what I would have done. Fury is still a better choice overall for bows at least, where static DPS relative to other ranged weapon builds is low.

[DaviMOC]

Liking to see some love for 2hf but its too timid to convice people to give up all the t5/t6 and the last core enhancment and its extra defenses from LD for this. I would say its hardly comparable to divine crusader with all the defense/self healing and improved critical profile you get there. As for the actives as good as it may look, the supposed main class to use this ( guess a barbarian) already have enough that its already annoying to use LD cleaves and also use barbarian cleaves and atacks. Cant see much use for new ones on FoTW.


EDit.: ALso, if you planning to keep the actives, why not making it all cleave attacks? Isnt that the stereotype for 2HF? Cant see it hurting balance as we usually are forced to single target on higher difficulty content and dont make the character stop moving when it uses it!

[whoolsey]

i have to agree with the 2hf comments, doublestrike doesn't work and even with glancing blows, you never regain charges fast enough to get close to LD, untill it is fixed, this ED is useless for 2hf melees

Fury could also use 1 or 2 points of extra dr 1/- (the barb one)

[byzantinebobby]

I don't know if you can do anything about it, but my first life was a Ranged Artificer. However, I could only pick the Arcane Sphere to start my destiny. As such, I had to wade through a lot of stuff to get over to Shiradi. By the time I did, I was almost done with the life. It's a little late for me now, but I can't be the only one who wanted to start off with a crossbow. Is it possible to give first life Artificers a chance to pick either the Arcane Sphere OR Shiradi?

[SerPounce]

I play a wolf druid (druid 20 Aasimar) at cap, and do mid (solo)/high reaper regularly, and I will try to give primal avatar a shot on lamania, but I'm really not seeing close to enough to move off dreadnought. Doing away with spirit is nice, but the abilities themselves aren't that great. Gimmicks like flight + leap resulting in 100% are neat, but there's just not enough omph to the tree.

Dreadnought gives you constant action boosts (and more of them), more melee power, improved crit range, more helpless damage (even with the nerf), more PRR (with blitz), one strong defensive active on a reasonable cooldown (thick skin), tactics, better prowess filagree activation, etc. All of which is very relevant to melee druids and f results in dead enemies which also miss you 100% of the time. You need to go so much further on the fundamentals to make primal avatar a competitive option. Primal avatar gives... some extra wisdom, a few defensive actives, and caster levels. Balanced attacks is the bee's knees, but I can twist that.

One particularly odd bit:

Walk With Spirits is no longer a toggle. On activation, you gain its effects for 30 seconds. It now has a 4 minute cooldown.

What about this ability justifies a 4 minute cooldown? It's a bit extra incorporeal and some hide if you use scion of ethereal. Thick skin is a stronger ability and has a 2 minute cooldown.

Now I'm perfectly happy with dreadnought, so maybe primal avatar just isn't for me, but who is this tree for? Caster druids aren't going to want it, there's no DC bonuses and nothing much scales with spellpower. Maybe pet builds (lol)?

Things I'd like to see that might (from my very uninformed perspective on the back end stuff) not be a ton of work:
1. Reduced cooldowns for innate attacks (snowslide in particular)
2. Ways of making stuff vulnerable to sneak attack (like improved deception while in animal form, but stacking with the item effect).
3. Extra damage to knocked down foes (we have a filagree that does this). Make it scale properly for legendary!
4. percentage bonuses to hit in animal form (tough being a non-full BAB melee)
5. healing amp in animal form (one advantage of full druid should be decent self healing, but it just doesn't pack that much punch in reaper)
6. Helpless damage
7. Fort bypass (in significant amounts)
8. Action boosts (haste in particular)
9. Tactics bonuses? (I don't really need them, but might be nice for people without the PLs and such I have)

Scale stuff with wilderness lore feats (or druid levels) to keep silvanus multiclass builds from getting crazy.

Though honestly even with all that it would be hard to give up the raw DPS power of LD.

[Carpone]

I would think a 20 Ranger Tempest is the intended target for Primal Avatar. However, there's zero reason for me to choose Primal Avatar over Legendary Dreadnought:

• 1: +28 more Melee Power in LD with Blitz active. It's easy to sustain Blitz once it's active.
  2. +40 more HP in LD from cores. LD also has option of +CON enhancements if you're not STR based.
  3: +1[W] more in LD from cores.
  4: -33% cool down on action boosts in LD, which is huge for the Prowess 5pc bonus.
  5: Additional critical multiplier in LD for and axes, and additional crit threat range for bludgeon.

Primal Avatar needs some parity with those abilities for a Tempest to consider it. Otherwise I'll just continue to twist Symmetric Strikes and Balanced Attacks from Primal Avatar and remain in LD. Please consider:

• 1: Increase Melee Power in the cores, or add Melee Power to something non-twistable (Chill of Winter passive) for LD parity.
  2: Provide +1% HP in each Primal Avatar core, or add the equivalent +% HP to Spirit Boon. For a 1400 HP level-30 melee toon that's 84 HP, a net of 44 HP over LD.
  3: Instead of matching +1[W] in the cores when unarmed, TWF or natural fighting, perhaps add a size bonus to damage (Unique, so it stacks with Ram's Might).
  4: Nothing I suggest can match Action Hero -- it's just that over-the-top good. Perhaps a core or Spirit Boon could also regenerate action boosts.
  5: Instead of adding more crit multipliers with the limited T5/T6 enhancements, perhaps provide double strike bonuses (and accompanying spell crit chance for casters) in the cores.

Would be nice to see:

• Add passive run speed passive (10% Action Boost) to one of the T4 enhancements (Summon Dryad Elder or Autumn Harvest) or the cores. Even with 30% Striding equipped, Rangers are slow moving.