2019 ED Pass: Primal Sphere

[Grailhawk]

3. You mean the same "twist fodder" in LD such as Momentum Swing, Lay Waste, Improved Power Attack, etc when used with other EDs?

The unique only accessible in Fury things (T5, T6, and Cores) need to be as good as the unique only accessible while in Dreadnought things I'm not sure this is the case yet. Get these things up to snuff then we can do anything you want to the twist fodder, till then its pointless to increase the power of the Twist Fodder.

If you increase the twist fodder in Fury then that just makes Dreadnought better not Fury because the unique parts of Fury are weaker than Dreadnoughts unique stuff.

Not sure I can say that better hope I got my point across sorry if I didn't

[Duhboy]

The unique only accessible in Fury things (T5, T6, and Cores) need to be as good as the unique only accessible while in Dreadnought things I'm not sure this is the case yet. Get these things up to snuff then we can do anything you want to the twist fodder, till then its pointless to increase the power of the Twist Fodder.

If you increase the twist fodder in Fury then that just makes Dreadnought better not Fury because the unique parts of Fury are weaker than Dreadnoughts unique stuff.

Not sure I can say that better hope I got my point across sorry if I didn't

No I understood beforehand. Maybe it was how you said it.

[Aelonwy]

2. Well at this rate, I personally don't see it happening but this is only a "First Look". So alot of things can happen between now and when it goes live.
Well just have to see.

They might have said "first look" but I'm very concerned that we haven't had any comments from the devs since the 6th (martial destinies only) and these threads were only posted on the 3rd. So we had some back and forth for 3days on the divine/primal/arcane destinies and 4 days on martial and since then nothing but us talking to ourselves. Not even a "still reading".

I hope we have some more exchange of ideas because going on their track record the next update for epic destinies if ever is seven years from now.

[Steelstar]

They might have said "first look" but I'm very concerned that we haven't had any comments from the devs since the 6th (martial destinies only) and these threads were only posted on the 3rd. So we had some back and forth for 3days on the divine/primal/arcane destinies and 4 days on martial and since then nothing but us talking to ourselves. Not even a "still reading".

I hope we have some more exchange of ideas because going on their track record the next update for epic destinies if ever is seven years from now.

Sorry for the length between updates; while we've read everything in every ED Pass thread, we're also working on other unrelated features while this feedback cycle is going on.

There's been a lot of good feedback given, when we're able to put time back toward the ED pass we'll be gathering up suggestions that fit both our balance goals and limited timeframe and make some changes before the first Lamannia (which is still a ways out - You'll be getting both the Lamannia and Live releases of Raid 2 before seeing this on Lamannia).

As we haven't done that step yet, we don't have further information at this time about what those changes will and will not include, beyond things we've already said in other responses.

[Thrudh]

no, temp hp are useless (they get removed prior to dr and prr/mrr/etc) and an annoyance, another clicky to keep an eye on, frenzy&death frenzy already aggravate my carpal tunnel as is.

You can't possibly be a playing a barbarian and think temp hp are useless. Have you never used Blood Tribute?

[Aelonwy]

Sorry for the length between updates; while we've read everything in every ED Pass thread, we're also working on other unrelated features while this feedback cycle is going on.

There's been a lot of good feedback given, when we're able to put time back toward the ED pass we'll be gathering up suggestions that fit both our balance goals and limited timeframe and make some changes before the first Lamannia (which is still a ways out - You'll be getting both the Lamannia and Live releases of Raid 2 before seeing this on Lamannia).

As we haven't done that step yet, we don't have further information at this time about what those changes will and will not include, beyond things we've already said in other responses.

Thank you for your response, and your time. Maybe in future "Official Discussions" just an every few days "still reading" comment while feedback is still desired would let us know that we're not shouting into a vacuum. Please, and thank you.

[Thrudh]

Overwhelming Force is one of the best things about playing a melee Fury.

A DIRECTED no-save knockdown (that makes the opponent helpless too) is a great ability. Great way to take out a tough champ. And it only happens on melee attacks, so it's not overpowered for ranged characters.

But like others have said, regenerating Adrenaline charges is slow with THF.

Lynnabel, doubling vorpal range for THF would help, but I don't think there's enough points for it if you put it at T5 or T6

You guys are already adding in 2 new T5 abilities at 2 AP each.

So with Fury Eternal, and the new 2 new T5 abilities, and Unbridled Fury, there are no points left for your new double THF vorpal range ability.

[Grailhawk]

Overwhelming Force is one of the best things about playing a melee Fury.

A DIRECTED no-save knockdown (that makes the opponent helpless too) is a great ability. Great way to take out a tough champ. And it only happens on melee attacks, so it's not overpowered for ranged characters.

But like others have said, regenerating Adrenaline charges is slow with THF.

Lynnabel, doubling vorpal range for THF would help, but I don't think there's enough points for it if you put it at T5 or T6

You guys are already adding in 2 new T5 abilities at 2 AP each.

So with Fury Eternal, and the new 2 new T5 abilities, and Unbridled Fury, there are no points left for your new double THF vorpal range ability.

I agree I also pointed out the AP problem since the impetus of this change is to balance TWF and THF it needs to be "Free" in the cores or as part of Fury Eternal.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Overwhelming Force is one of the best things about playing a melee Fury.

A DIRECTED no-save knockdown (that makes the opponent helpless too) is a great ability. Great way to take out a tough champ. And it only happens on melee attacks, so it's not overpowered for ranged characters.

But like others have said, regenerating Adrenaline charges is slow with THF.

Lynnabel, doubling vorpal range for THF would help, but I don't think there's enough points for it if you put it at T5 or T6

You guys are already adding in 2 new T5 abilities at 2 AP each.

So with Fury Eternal, and the new 2 new T5 abilities, and Unbridled Fury, there are no points left for your new double THF vorpal range ability.

Maybe throw that double vorpal range in with the other benefits from the 6th innate ability? It'd make for a pretty sweet little capstone that everyone running in that destiny would get, regardless of how they spend the rest of their points

[Vorachtin]

Sorry for the length between updates; while we've read everything in every ED Pass thread, we're also working on other unrelated features while this feedback cycle is going on.

There's been a lot of good feedback given, when we're able to put time back toward the ED pass we'll be gathering up suggestions that fit both our balance goals and limited timeframe and make some changes before the first Lamannia (which is still a ways out - You'll be getting both the Lamannia and Live releases of Raid 2 before seeing this on Lamannia).

As we haven't done that step yet, we don't have further information at this time about what those changes will and will not include, beyond things we've already said in other responses.

ouch still that far from raid 2?

[Souless]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

• Why implement ANY PRICIPAL CHANGES (which I take it to mean PRIMARY) with only 3 weeks review?!?! This SCREAMS *testing to see if it works*… What it doesn't say is: we have a well conceived plan of action and implementation.
  
• First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
• Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
  
  • Fixing bugs are always welcome...
    
  • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.
  
  
• Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)

Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Primal Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

Fury of the Wild
This is a Pretty Good destiny in its current state, but not enough Melees found reason to stick with this one vs. Dreadnought. We'd especially like Two Handed Fighters to hang out here, so we added some spice for them. Please note that "Two Handed Fighting Style" does not include Natural Weapon Style (aka Wolves, Bears, Trees).

• I'd like to revisit the timeframe. Work, COMPLETED WORK, is superior in almost every category than rapid unfinished work. And it seems like you are going to add NEW destinies which will have sweeping affects to my account. Limiting response time to these changes also SCREAMS *we don't have time to change anything but feel free to bytch about it here.*
  
• Cores each add an additional +2 Damage with Two-Handed Weapons (along with what they currently do)
• Fury made Placid is reduced to a 2% chance on no save. Healing scales with Melee Power. Gain +10% Doublestrike and +20 PRR and MRR while in this state.
• Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging. (Keeps its 5 minute cooldown).
• You can now use Unbridled Fury while under Antimagic.
• NEW: T1: (Multiselector with Boulder Toss): Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
• NEW: T5: Devastating Blow (+1 Critical Multiplier on 19-20 with Melee weapons) (1 Rank, 2AP)
• NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)

None of these changes adds anything to my RANGED build that will actually use Fury as a destiny choice. At least they don't seem to hurt my builds. Furthermore, with the 5 min cooldown timer against LD (Always active Blitz) I doubt these changes are enough to pull any of the population over to Fury from LD. I have only 1 important question: Do hand wraps count as *Two Handed Fighting style? I don't think they do, which means you will also pull 0 of the DPS-ing monks from LD or GM.


Primal Avatar
This is another Fairly Weird tree. There's things we didn't hit that I'd still like to (the complex spell that is Tsunami, in particular) but the primary thing we tried to do was to make it more accessible and less frustrating by eliminating the Spirit Charge mechanic. Before, it was very difficult to perform well in this tree if you couldn't min-max Spirit regeneration; that should no longer be a concern. Tree Form still isn't amazing, but that's unfortunately something that'll need to get addressed another time. (At the very least, you should get to use it more reliably and longer in most cases).

• Time Frame!!!!
  
• Spirit Charges no longer exist in this tree.
• Strength of Spirit is now a Passive granting +20 Universal Spell Power. (The tree still grants +10 Melee and +4 Ranged Power per core).
• Primal Travel no longer costs Spirit, and now has a 90 second cooldown.
• Mighty Among Spirits no longer reduces Spirit Decay (as Spirit no longer exists), and instead grants +15 MRR (in addition to the +20 HP it currently gives).
• Eternal Return no longer costs Spirit.
• Walk With Spirits is no longer a toggle. On activation, you gain its effects for 30 seconds. It now has a 4 minute cooldown.
• Spirit Boon (both versions) no longer requires Spirit.
• Avatar of Nature no longer requires Spirit. Each of its Sizes now lasts for 6 seconds, except for the largest, which lasts for 12 and then shuts off the Form. It now has a 5 minute cooldown.
• Summer Smoke, Supple as Spring, and Chill of Winter are now applied more efficiently, should cause fewer performance issues, and should no longer get stuck on players - Like Bard Auras, the effects are re-applied every few seconds and expire after some time. These now only apply to party members (sorry, this was important for performance reasons).

I don't know enough about the use of this destiny other than twisting cocoon to have questions.

Shiradi Champion
This tree is alright for casters and not great for ranged characters in its current state. A lot of the Bow users are pulled over by Fury right now, so we gave it a bit of that power to make Shiradi a more viable choice for them. We don't want to take Fury away from bow-users entirely (or Shiradi away from casters), just to make Shiradi a viable choice for ranged weapon characters.

• The first five cores (replacing their existing attack/damage bonuses) add +1 to hit and damage with ranged weapons.
• Favorable Winds and Fey Power scale with 200% Ranged Power.
• Stay Frosty's cold damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Stay Frosty now passively provides its +3/+6 Spot and Listen
• Stay Good's light damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Rainbow's random damage scales with 200% ranged power.
• Added clarifying language to Double Rainbow to indicate that its effects may scale with Melee, Ranged, or Spell Power depending on the origin of effects it finds.
• Whirling Wrists also grants +2/4/6% Doubleshot.
• Wild Shots scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Rain of Arrows no longer requires charging.
• Rain of Arrows now has a 3-minute cooldown.
• Rain of Arrows' damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Rain of Arrows now costs 1AP.
• Rain of Arrows' tooltip now properly reflects its 20% of application per second (previously read 10%).
• Tea With the Queen now costs 1AP.
• Track also debuffs fortification by 2% per stack
• Stand & Deliver now alson grants +1mult on 19-20 with Ranged weapons
• In The Weeds adds +3 PRR and +3 MRR per stack.
• NEW: Horizon Shot (T6): Your next shot with a Ranged or Thrown weapon has +400% damage and +16 to its Critical Threat Range. 30 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)

The changes in this destiny actually seem to help my ranged builds. Certainly worth testing, (REPEATE.....TESTING!!). However, since the current mechanic of making mobs with loads of HP's, if the DPS isn't comparable to Fury this will be a waste of your time. Because there is NO WAY I would give up DPS for nerve toxin, which is why any ranged build looks at Shiradi in the first place. The best possible solution would've been to make Nerve Toxin twist-able by lowering it to T4. Also, Rain of Arrows is useless in it's current form. It will be just as useless in the new form unless ALL the damage goes off at 1 time (in affect an insta-kill similar to EIN/Frog). Otherwise all your ranger has done is make himself a target for EVERYTHING he has just hit and didn't kill. Finally, Hor-Shot (which is in effect adrenalin) with a 30 sec timer is FAR-FAR-FAR too long a cooldown to be useful.

Please read comments in red...Thank You.

The Bytcher~

[Xgya]

Sorry for the length between updates; while we've read everything in every ED Pass thread, we're also working on other unrelated features while this feedback cycle is going on.

There's been a lot of good feedback given, when we're able to put time back toward the ED pass we'll be gathering up suggestions that fit both our balance goals and limited timeframe and make some changes before the first Lamannia (which is still a ways out - You'll be getting both the Lamannia and Live releases of Raid 2 before seeing this on Lamannia).

As we haven't done that step yet, we don't have further information at this time about what those changes will and will not include, beyond things we've already said in other responses.

Thanks for the update nonetheless.
I'd like to ask for something unusual: I'd love to know exactly what feedback gets kept, as well as any ideas that you found "nice, but didn't have time for".
Give the community examples of feedback that got kept, if only to show dissenters that these ideas DID come from the forums, and anyone else wanting to give suggestions in the future examples of what gets kept so they can at least align themselves.

I know this comes a bit late into this, and most suggestions kept are probably already rolling down and noted, but, still, getting feedback ON the feedback sounds interesting. Positive feedback loops

[Yokido]

@Xgya

I know this was directed at Steelstar, but I feel the need to reply myself since I might know the answer.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "dissenter" when it comes to giving suggestions or input regarding a potential update, especially when the devs themselves put this up specifically to fish for input. I would say the closest thing to a "dissenter" in a forum spot like this would be someone going 'agro' because something isn't going their way, which we've unfortunately seen in a few instances.

[Lamassut]

Druid casters do not have ED in this sphere, fix it please.

By when to change the CL to the epic levels instead of in the EDs? Exalted angel would be perfect for druid casters if not for the CL

[lyrecono]

You can't possibly be a playing a barbarian and think temp hp are useless. Have you never used Blood Tribute?

You don't play barbarian at a competitive level thrud, as i recently pointed out in a kind manner somewhere else.

Blood tribute's hp gets bashed in really fast in high reaper, when hits get you for 2/3k, that paultry 350 isn't going to be of much use, it penalty racks up fast, wich gives you less hp in total. More important, it's a3ap on a ap starved class in situations where these get knocked of in1 hit. It simply doesn't give you much buck for your money.
My experience with temp hp is that it seems to go away too fast, suggesting not all your defences come in to play before the damage to temp hp is calculated.

[HungarianRhapsody]

no, temp hp are useless (they get removed prior to dr and prr/mrr/etc) and an annoyance, another clicky to keep an eye on, frenzy&death frenzy already aggravate my carpal tunnel as is.

Temp HP don't suffer from the big Reaper penalty for self healing. I'd rather have Warlock/Barbarian level of temp HP than cure light/moderate/serious/critical spells in most Reaper content.

[DaviMOC]

Temp HP don't suffer from the big Reaper penalty for self healing. I'd rather have Warlock/Barbarian level of temp HP than cure light/moderate/serious/critical spells in most Reaper content.

Yeah. Barb False life its great for heroics and casters/ranged. Try to keep healing yourself for 400 unscaled with a -1 con price per cast on epic reaper while you stand in the frontline or wait for a random I like pain proc =).

[HungarianRhapsody]

Yeah. Barb False life its great for heroics and casters/ranged. Try to keep healing yourself for 400 unscaled with a -1 con price per cast on epic reaper while you stand in the frontline or wait for a random I like pain proc =).

So how does your Barbarian keep itself alive on the front lines of Epic Reaper content without heals from party members?

Because temp hp are good in epic too. As long as that's not your only source of healing.

[DaviMOC]

Dont get me wrong. Barb false life is good. Is just not comparable to the Bard/Warlock ones and not that big deal as people claims to be. As blood strenght its great at start but diminishes really fast when you increases content level( much more than common self healing methods). Blood pact is more about prevention and emergency and cant be considered a self heal. In other hand a false life aura that pulse each few secs with no price, that is another level =).

[Cordovan]

ouch still that far from raid 2?

We're getting fairly close to Lamannia, but stay tuned.