2019 ED Pass: Primal Sphere

[Neo-Masamune]

I would like to agree with Celender on this for a few reasons. 1: there is no point in creating something that is done better in another tree. That means that now you force the 'meta' to change trees, not just bow users or the like. People will either still prefer the powerhouse in Furyshots, or change things up to add Rainbow + weaker furyshot.

I would consider changing the idea from your 'almost-always-crit-rage-power-attack-with-the-strength-of-a-thousand-horses(400% dmg)' to something that better fits into a Ranger ranged fields. Instead of just copying the ability, and modifying it.
Is it possible to make a separate attack, on a 22 second cooldown. That is an attack of itself, or adds to the next attack if the coding causes issues in gameplay.
What would fit well within the Ranger realm, but still not compromise the identity of FoTW, yet still appeal to Ranged characters but not empower Casters too much:

Idea 1) Add your new T6 ability 'Fey Shot' that, instead of being a fury shot, has the following profile:
Only affects the first arrow/bolt/ranged weapon attack that hits, applies to all targets it hits. (similar to a lot of other abilities that work that way now). Has a 22 second cooldown (To let the fairies gather again around you, as they are the ones that enchant your ammo/attack with the fey powers). Can include a spellpoint cost if you desire: Up to 20 spellpoints.
Description of affect: Your attack becomes untyped upon dealing damage (similar to Ruin? essentially adding untyped damage flag on hit would work coding-wise) through the power of the Fey. Your attack splits when it hits the foe, damaging the enemy 4 times instead of once (similar to lightning bolt arc?), and all side affects/weapon affects (like Elemental Arrows, or weapon Evil damage/Acid burst, etc.) are increased in damage by 50%, applying each of the 4 times. (in numbers theoretically; if you hit the mob for 200 damage piercing + 325 damage Acid from Elemental Arrows + 6 damage acid from your AcidBurst weapon, it would turn into something like: 4[200 piercing + 325[1.5] acid + 6[1.5] acid] -> 800 + 1950 + 36 = 2786 damage, untyped.
Where as, if you are using adrenaline shot these are your benefits:
200 -> X400% damage -> 800 damage -> +95% chance of CRITS for [x4]? damage, giving 2400 damage, and throw in your Doubleshot %, lets assume you doubleshot once, so you roll another attack for 240, repeat the process, 240 X 400% + crit [4x]?, giving 3840 additional damage. Now lets assume you are also getting your acid damage, this converts to 325 + 6 additional acid damage, giving 331 additional damage, x2 for 2 attacks, so lets assume 662. Your total Fury attack hits for 2400+3840 pierce + 662 acid = 6240 piercing and 662 acid
Now, this would compete with Fury because the effect is similar in nature, but applies more elemental type damage then actual physical damage. If you are more MAGICAL ranged, you would prefer Shiradi. If you are more PHYSICAL CRIT ranged, you would prefer Fury. It is also unique in that it provides UNTYPED damage, so that you bypass all types of damage reduction with the attack, adding in a niche ability that flows well with the tree's nature.
You could possibly expand this to apply to the first 'spell cast damage' as well. Just to allow its usefulness for 'casters' in shiradi.
But as described, you now have a chance with the attack to gain the 7% chance elemental damage from randomness, applied at a 6x affect if you get lucky, as well as giving the RANGERS 'I bypass all your damage reduction!' ability temporarily.

This seems very balanced to me (theoretically), and favors the Shiradi style as opposed to the brute Fury style.


Idea 2) Change the current epic moment to be a temporary power buff rather then the current gimpy 'if you stand on them, you have a 'chance' to deal an extra 100 damage every 6 seconds'. Something along the lines of: Your attacks now have 60% doubleshot (stacking) and a 20% chance on hit (ranged or spellcast 50% chance?) to deal 1d100 random elemental damage [scaling 100% spellpower AND/OR 200% ranged power]. Lasts for 30 seconds, and has a 5 minute cooldown.
This would replace the current
(wiki) "Rain of Arrows: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 5 minutes) Call upon a thousand invisible fairies to rain pointy wooden death around you! Every second for thirty seconds each enemy around you has 10% to take 10d100 damage. Damage may consist of up to 10 damage types."
It benefits casters in that casters can get the randomness of the Shiradi as it was once before during this time of epic moment, as well as giving ranged the benefit of this epic moment, without being so overpowered.
If you feel that the numbers are a little too strong here, consider increasing the cooldown time, so that this ability becomes a 'I need to choose when to use this wisely".

Why I feel this is a good change: Currently the fey epic moment is really only useful in becoming an epic 'fire shield' type aura that hits for a tickle here and there. Very dependent on being within enemies "I strike you, you die" range. It becomes more of a "if I were a tank, I'd use that" kind of ability. Changing it to the suggested way now gives more of the Shiradi style ranged/magical feel, as well as the randomness of the Shiradi and the fey.
It fits well into the Ranger subclass, as well as the side class of Druid, giving the druid a more useful version of offensive magic with the fey.

FAQ: But what about all of the Magic Missle spammers meta?
A: Its only for 30 seconds. If you go into this tree to become a magic missle spammer for random effects and huge spell hits for that 30 second epic moment, why not? Seems balanced, though stronger then it would be on a druid.

Sounds realy cool! especialy Idea 1

[Grailhawk]

This is a comparison of the exclusive things in the two destinies because of Twists the exclusive things in a destiny are the most important and the once that dictate how good the destiny is.

Dreadnought	Fury	"Winner"
+88 Melee Power	+46/61 (non THF/THF)	Dreadnought (clearly for non THF) might be a wash for THF
+82 Ranged Power	+6 Ranged Power	Dreadnought
+5 Damage	+6 Damage	Fury
+1[W] & 15% Helpless Damage (Combat Brute)	Adrenaline, Overwhelming Force, and Fury Eternal	Fury (but the is a bit subjective)
+1 Crit Multiplier 19-20	+1 Crit Multiplier 19-20	Wash
Action Hero	Unbridled Fury	Wash
Pulverizer or Headman's Chop		Dreadnought
+60 HP +30 PRR (Blitz)	+100 HP	Dreadnought
Unstoppable		Dreadnought
Unmoveable		Dreadnought
Thick Skinned		Dreadnought

So Fury didn't even show up to the fight when it comes to defensive advantages. That's probably for the best do to how good this is as a Ranged Destiny we don't want to compound the problem by also putting then in God Mode by giving them top tier defense at range.

This destiny really only has the Adrenaline, Overwhelming Force, Fury Eternal and Unbridled Fury combo which is great but for melee its not good enough to give up Dreadnought non of the changes made so far make that true either. Ranged gets 2-4 times more damage out of Adrenaline/Unbridled and (I believe) they say that Dreadnought is still the better Destiny for DPS its just the utility of the Big Burst that makes this Destiny attractive given how much smaller the Melee Burst is (not even half the size).

Melee gets more Power out of this destiny then ranged does but its not enough to make non Adrenaline DPS competitive with Dreadnought and during the burst it doesn't add as much as what Manyshot or 10K stars add to the Ranged burst so its just not enough ...

Dreadnought has on average 11% more alacrity (Acton Hero), ~20-40 more Melee Power (depending on combat style) and significantly better defense. From the Melee point of view I don't think this Destiny is competitive yet.

Think about letting Doublestrikes (I want off-hand procs and off-hand DS too but that could be a personal bias and is probably not smart) benefit from the Adrenaline effect unlike ranged this is at most doubling the potency of the burst since there is a 100% Doublestrike cap; an alternative to this might be adding more melee power let non THF hit 60-70 and THF hit 75-85

I don't know play test my change my mind but right now on paper this doesn't look good enough.

Finally even with the changes Fury made Placid is garbage (sorry strong word but true) giving up Rage in a tree that has 80% (or more) of it's power tide to Rage is just bad. Cocoon is better healing as you can use it more often. Just not worth it.

[Celender]

This is a comparison of the exclusive things in the two destinies because of Twists the exclusive things in a destiny are the most important and the once that dictate how good the destiny is.

Exactly, T5-6 which can't be twisted that sets the tone. Making T5-6 mostly exclusive for certain class/fighting style will naturally draw those. You don't see a fighter on Magister but it may twist unearthly reaction.

Making epic moment and other T5-6 attached to certain class/spell/fighting style/enhancements/feats

Ideas:

"in the weeds" tier 3 adds +10% concealment(primal bonus) while on archer focus stance
T6 - elemental arrow dice is now a d10 instead of d8, AOE burst dmg (1d6+2 per character lvl) on vorpal reflex for half dmg, DC = character lvl +10 + wis/int/cha + evocation bonus)
T6 - While heavy draw is active + 15 RP or +1(W)
T5 - Adds heartseeker VI while on IPS, Adds 10% tendonslice while on archer focus

[lyrecono]

This is a comparison of the exclusive things in the two destinies because of Twists the exclusive things in a destiny are the most important and the once that dictate how good the destiny is.

Dreadnought	Fury	"Winner"
+88 Melee Power	+46/61 (non THF/THF)	Dreadnought (clearly for non THF) might be a wash for THF
+82 Ranged Power	+6 Ranged Power	Dreadnought
+5 Damage	+6 Damage	Fury
+1[W] & 15% Helpless Damage (Combat Brute)	Adrenaline, Overwhelming Force, and Fury Eternal	Fury (but the is a bit subjective)
+1 Crit Multiplier 19-20	+1 Crit Multiplier 19-20	Wash
Action Hero	Unbridled Fury	Wash
Pulverizer or Headman's Chop		Dreadnought
+60 HP +30 PRR (Blitz)	+100 HP	Dreadnought
Unstoppable		Dreadnought
Unmoveable		Dreadnought
Thick Skinned		Dreadnought

So Fury didn't even show up to the fight when it comes to defensive advantages. That's probably for the best do to how good this is as a Ranged Destiny we don't want to compound the problem by also putting then in God Mode by giving them top tier defense at range.

This destiny really only has the Adrenaline, Overwhelming Force, Fury Eternal and Unbridled Fury combo which is great but for melee its not good enough to give up Dreadnought non of the changes made so far make that true either. Ranged gets 2-4 times more damage out of Adrenaline/Unbridled and (I believe) they say that Dreadnought is still the better Destiny for DPS its just the utility of the Big Burst that makes this Destiny attractive given how much smaller the Melee Burst is (not even half the size).

Melee gets more Power out of this destiny then ranged does but its not enough to make non Adrenaline DPS competitive with Dreadnought and during the burst it doesn't add as much as what Manyshot or 10K stars add to the Ranged burst so its just not enough ...

Dreadnought has on average 11% more alacrity (Acton Hero), ~20-40 more Melee Power (depending on combat style) and significantly better defense. From the Melee point of view I don't think this Destiny is competitive yet.

Think about letting Doublestrikes (I want off-hand procs and off-hand DS too but that could be a personal bias and is probably not smart) benefit from the Adrenaline effect unlike ranged this is at most doubling the potency of the burst since there is a 100% Doublestrike cap; an alternative to this might be adding more melee power let non THF hit 60-70 and THF hit 75-85

I don't know play test my change my mind but right now on paper this doesn't look good enough.

Finally even with the changes Fury made Placid is garbage (sorry strong word but true) giving up Rage in a tree that has 80% (or more) of it's power tide to Rage is just bad. Cocoon is better healing as you can use it more often. Just not worth it.

Wow, fury is still that bad after these changes
And tis assumes that the possible changes to 2hf cordovan hinted at and the extended vorpal range (for the regeneration of adrenaline charges) would put things right,i guess i was wrong, more LD for my barb.

I hope the devs see this and take it into account.
My suggeston(besides fixing 2hf) was putting a few extra points off barb dr in there to offset the 30prr in blitz, since it only works on barbarians.
Maybe remove ward agains weird and make a mini tree:

Tier 2 damage reduction(leave it as is)
Tier 3 furious state of mind, +2/4/6 mrr and dr 1/- in the third one
Tier 4 (anti magic ritual scaring) +2/4/6 saves vs spells, dr1/- in the third one

But from your analisis i gather there is so much more wrong in the dps side of things.
You mentioned adding more melee power, is that the only option?

[DaviMOC]

Is it too much to ask that any melee benefit gets multiplied by 1,5 when applied to 2hf similar to Power Atack?
Glancing blows are not even close to offhand atacks( too many enhancment and ed investment to see effects and damage to grow there) and the base dice difference gets less and less relevant when power grows and you always have stuff such as reinforced fists gear and blinding atk speed with SWF and 2WF to compesate for that.

Yeah, I know its natural to have 2 handed weapons to hit slower but its also natural to hit significant harder.

Also, yes. Defenses. It dosent fit well with fury's fantasy but it fits with actual melee's meta.
Maybe bonus to epic defensive stance so no ranged defensive bonus? If you want melee to be here you need to give reasons to do so instead of the other options that do have some. Besides that self healing with no control over it that gets penalty on reaper and that odd working SR that requires you to be ready to be slain to work, all the arcane sphere( fate singer, draconic incarnation and magister) gets more straightforward and working defenses ready.

[Cantor]

Really liking the changes to Shiradi, will be nice to still have the BOOM HEADSHOT option that I get running in fury (gxbow mechanic railgun is just FUN), but have more ranged power & not need to twist in pin & otto's, so I can have something else useful in those slots instead - ok, no more "burn it down" unbridled fury for room clearance/boss destruction but swings & roundabouts.

Oh hey, maybe "boom headshot" could be an alternative to the duplicate horizon shot name for that ability?

headshot is also already used

[Aelonwy]

headshot is also already used

Fey Marksman (because Shiradi), I don't think Deadeye has been used either but perhaps that's more of a western term for Sharpshooter.

Are the devs even still reading these? I haven't seen a dev comment in this forum since the 6th and that was Martial destinies only. Sometimes I'd just like a "Still reading/digesting/making notes/discussing" comment.

[erethizon]

Would it be possible to also have this scale with 200% spell power as well, Steel?

Saal

Since there will be 12 epic past lives in each sphere after the pass it would be nice to see at least one ED choice in each sphere that is great for spell casters. With that in mind, I definitely like this idea.

[Duhboy]

I've read the suppose changes to Fury and it's still bad. Alot of the abilities either don't work or doesn't scale very well overall such as Tunnel Vision, Boulder Toss, Injury etc etc.
So the devs answer to unclogging the toilet that is Fury of the Wild is dumping melee power into it, Unbridled Fury no longer requires charging, and an regular attack at tier one that does +2 critical multiplier. Still bad. Even with the nerf to combat brute LD is still vastly superior given that fact that the abilities like unstoppable, action hero, unmovable, thick skinned actually work. So hear are some suggestions for fury.

Brawn I & II: Instead of +50 HP each how about +10% Primal bonus to Max HP (total +20%) & +1 to barbarian Damage reduction total +2%

Having adrenaline truly work on cleaves effecting every mobs hit by cleaves.

Tunnel Vision: Passive Bonus: While raged, melee attacks deal +1d[8/10/12] extra untyped damage. In addition, you gain +[1/2/3] intimidate and +[1/2/3] will saves. You also suffer a -5 Penalty to Armor Class and suffer a 10% penalty to fortification while raged. This ability is trash.

Tunnel Vision Rework: While raged, melee attacks deal +2d12 extra untyped damage (scales with 200% melee power). In addition, you gain +3 intimidate and +3 will saves. You also suffer a -5 Penalty to Armor Class and suffer a 10% penalty to fortification while raged. AP cost 1

Injury: Passive Bonus: While you are injured, enemies you damage in melee are shaken.
At rank 2 when you're below 70% of your hit points enemies receive a bleed proc for 1d10 damage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.
At rank 3 when you are below 30% hit points, you have a 10% chance of paralyzing your enemies for 5 seconds.

This is another trash ability that noone has used or will use. The shaken effect has a dc so low that a level 1 kobold could save against. It's pitiful.

Injury Rework:
Passive Bonus:
At rank 1 while you are injured, you gain +6 melee power and enemies you damage take -2 PRR (stacks to 5 times). Stacks diminish by 2 every 2 seconds.
At rank 2 when you're below 75% of your hit points, you gain an additional +6 melee power and enemies you damage receive a bleed proc for 1d10 damage ( scales with 200% melee power) every 2 seconds for 10 seconds. Stacks to 3 times.
At rank 3 when you are below 50% hit points, you gain an additional +6 melee power and you have a 15% chance of paralyzing your enemies for 5 seconds.

Insult: (Active) (Cooldown: 20 seconds) Your next attack generates triple threat, and for 20 seconds your target gains +2 Strength, +2 constitution and loses -10 AC, -10 concentration and -10% fortification.
Another trash ability. Nuff said. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if they removed this ability all together.

Ward against Weird: Passive Bonus: [5/30/60] Primal bonus to spell resistance when you are below [100%/70%/30%] of health.
This ability is ok-ish. Seems to need a boost.

Ward against Weird Rework: Passive Bonus: [5/30/60] Primal bonus to spell resistance & [5/10/15] MRR when you are below [100%/75%/50%] of your max health.

New abilities:
Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
As a regular attack this seems underwhelming on a weapon that doesn't have a decent critical threat range outside of fury.
Perhaps making this a 360 cleave attack with a +1 critical threat range added to this attack.

NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)
It's an improvement but needs more for 2HF.
NEW: T6: Strong Swings : +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +30 & +1 Primal bonus to critical multiplier. (1 Rank, 2AP)

Unbridled Fury Epic Moment: For the duration of this epic moment +30 melee power.

Let me know what you think.

[Grailhawk]

Brawn I & II: Instead of +50 HP each how about +10% Primal bonus to Max HP (total +20%) & +1 to barbarian Damage reduction total +2%

Not good unless you fold it into Epic Defensive Fighting (like some one else in this thread suggested) really not a good idea to give ranged toons +20% HP.

Having adrenaline truly work on cleaves effecting every mobs hit by cleaves.

Way to OP, just need one cleave attack T5+ or in the cores on a 60 or 90 second timer requires an Adrenalin charge to use and has all the Adrenalin perks.

Tunnel Vision ...
Injury: ...
Insult: ...
Ward against Weird: ...

Increasing the power of T1-T4 stuff just makes them things to twist in on LD, not where I think buffs should be placed at this stage.

New abilities:
Boulder's Might: Requires being in Two-Handed Fighting style to use (i.e. no Natural Fighting). 5[w] attack, 6 second cooldown. Rank 2 and 3 add +1 and +2 Critical Multiplier on that attack. (3 Ranks, 1AP Each)
As a regular attack this seems underwhelming on a weapon that doesn't have a decent critical threat range outside of fury.
Perhaps making this a 360 cleave attack with a +1 critical threat range added to this attack.

+5[w] and +2 crit multiplier attack that you can use with Adrenalin that doesn't need any more work. The synergy is already great.

NEW: T5: Strong Swings: +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +25. (1 Rank, 2AP)
It's an improvement but needs more for 2HF.
NEW: T6: Strong Swings : +10 Melee Power. While fighting in Two Handed Fighting style, this is instead +30 & +1 Primal bonus to critical multiplier. (1 Rank, 2AP)

If you add a proper crit multiplier that isn't just competence bonus you need to not do anything else to the tree and have probably already made it the best melee destiny in the game.

Unbridled Fury Epic Moment: For the duration of this epic moment +30 melee power.

Let me know what you think.

Whats another 30 MP on top of 400% damage boost?

[lyrecono]

@grailhawk

What about 2X dr 1/- and 15%hp when weilding a 2handed weapon?
Or 5% per 2hf feat?

I support the 30melee power you suggested but this destiny needs some means to aply that damage.

[Duhboy]

Not good unless you fold it into Epic Defensive Fighting (like some one else in this thread suggested) really not a good idea to give ranged toons +20% HP.



Way to OP, just need one cleave attack T5+ or in the cores on a 60 or 90 second timer requires an Adrenalin charge to use and has all the Adrenalin perks.



Increasing the power of T1-T4 stuff just makes them things to twist in on LD, not where I think buffs should be placed at this stage.



+5[w] and +2 crit multiplier attack that you can use with Adrenaline that doesn't need any more work. The synergy is already great.



If you add a proper crit multiplier that isn't just competence bonus you need to not do anything else to the tree and have probably already made it the best melee destiny in the game.



Whats another 30 MP on top of 400% damage boost?

1. Numbers can be adjusted for the HP bonus.

2. If it's OP then nerf overwhelming force to 3 secs or so

3. Just like things in LD can be twisted in aswell.

4. As I previously stated outside of fury it's meh especially since it's a supposed new tier 1 that can ALSO be twisted in.

5. Given how Fury doesn't have the versatility compared to LD even with the devs changes won't change anything as is. Melee are still going to use LD mostly.
So given that some changes might be necessary that may or may not seem "OP" in order to make them viable other than LD.

[Grailhawk]

@grailhawk

What about 2X dr 1/- and 15%hp when weilding a 2handed weapon?
Or 5% per 2hf feat?

I support the 30melee power you suggested but this destiny needs some means to aply that damage.

I have two opinions on Defense in Fury:

• Don't increase defense in any way that would make Ranged better.
• Offense and Defense are on a sliding scale the more you have one the less you should have of the other. If they leave defense as it its now they can add more offense if they start adding defense they need to not add more offense.

1. Numbers can be adjusted for the HP bonus.

2. If it's OP then nerf overwhelming force to 3 secs or so

3. Just like things in LD can be twisted in aswell.

4. As I previously stated outside of fury it's meh especially since it's a supposed new tier 1 that can ALSO be twisted in.

I like Overwhelming Force better then Adrenalin on cleaves we aren't going to agree on that.

I believe that the goal of this pass should be making people choose Fury 50/50 with Dreadnought not to make one better than the other we have lived in a world where one was better than the other for too long. Part of that is making Fury better for people in Fury not making twist fodder.

5. Given how Fury doesn't have the versatility compared to LD even with the devs changes won't change anything as is. Melee are still going to use LD mostly.
So given that some changes might be necessary that may or may not seem "OP" in order to make them viable other than LD.

It's never good to let things that are OP in to the game.

[lyrecono]

I have two opinions on Defense in Fury:

• Don't increase defense in any way that would make Ranged better.
• Offense and Defense are on a sliding scale the more you have one the less you should have of the other. If they leave defense as it its now they can add more offense if they start adding defense they need to not add more offense.

I like Overwhelming Force better then Adrenalin on cleaves we aren't going to agree on that.

I believe that the goal of this pass should be making people choose Fury 50/50 with Dreadnought not to make one better than the other we have lived in a world where one was better than the other for too long. Part of that is making Fury better for people in Fury not making twist fodder.



It's never good to let things that are OP in to the game.

Barb dr should only work for barbs and the hp with 2hweapons.
This ED needs something to help people stay alive.
The way LD is sugested, it will be the go to ED for any dps melee, regardless of weaponstyle

[Grailhawk]

Barb dr should only work for barbs and the hp with 2hweapons.
This ED needs something to help people stay alive.
The way LD is sugested, it will be the go to ED for any dps melee, regardless of weaponstyle

Just to be clear what I was saying in relation to your suggestions is that if you increase defense don't do it the wrong way to increase the power of ranged but also don't increase offense at the same time.

Also not a fan of putting the HP strictly behind THF I don't think this tree should be that unwelcoming to TWF, and SWF melee.

[lyrecono]

Just to be clear what I was saying in relation to your suggestions is that if you increase defense don't do it the wrong way to increase the power of ranged but also don't increase offense at the same time.

Also not a fan of putting the HP strictly behind THF I don't think this tree should be that unwelcoming to TWF, and SWF melee.

Ok, i see what you mean.

What about 5% hp per swf/2wf and 2hf feat and weilding said weapons?

[Grailhawk]

Ok, i see what you mean.

What about 5% hp per swf/2wf and 2hf feat and weilding said weapons?

If I wanted to increase defense rather than offense, that's a start.

I would also want something to directly counter Thick Skinned some kind of Clicky ability really boosts defense for a shot time maybe something that gives 500 Temp HP for 30 seconds every 2 Min, another idea would be look at Fury Made Placid and make it not suck.

[lyrecono]

If I wanted to increase defense rather than offense, that's a start.

I would also want something to directly counter Thick Skinned some kind of Clicky ability really boosts defense for a shot time maybe something that gives 500 Temp HP for 30 seconds every 2 Min, another idea would be look at Fury Made Placid and make it not suck.

no, temp hp are useless (they get removed prior to dr and prr/mrr/etc) and an annoyance, another clicky to keep an eye on, frenzy&death frenzy already aggravate my carpal tunnel as is.

[Xgya]

no, temp hp are useless (they get removed prior to dr and prr/mrr/etc) and an annoyance, another clicky to keep an eye on, frenzy&death frenzy already aggravate my carpal tunnel as is.

You're confusing temp HPs and damage protection (as from Protection from Elements)

Temp HPs are lost at the same rate as normal HPs normally would be, calculating PRR, DR, elemental resistance and everything else that would normally be in the way of you losing hit points

[Duhboy]

I like Overwhelming Force better then Adrenaline on cleaves we aren't going to agree on that.

I believe that the goal of this pass should be making people choose Fury 50/50 with Dreadnought not to make one better than the other we have lived in a world where one was better than the other for too long. Part of that is making Fury better for people in Fury not making twist fodder.

It's never good to let things that are OP into the game.

1. To each there own.
2. Well at this rate, I personally don't see it happening but this is only a "First Look". So alot of things can happen between now and when it goes live.
Well just have to see.
3. You mean the same "twist fodder" in LD such as Momentum Swing, Lay Waste, Improved Power Attack, etc when used with other EDs?
4. That's what balance is there for. If Adrenaline would truly work with cleaves then that would make Overwhelming Force over performing such a nerf to Overwhelming Force would have to happen. Just an example.